Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 For mine, before you ask, yes, the player who is defended by the Guardian is notified that they were attacked, but their name DOES NOT show up in the write-up.
Elenion he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: And that way as long as an eliminator hasn't died (or even if one has, sometimes), the doc isn't spoiled, which makes things much more fun for the GM. How would the doc be spoiled if the dead players aren't allowed to communicate with the living ones? 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: While you're clarifying the lynch, might as well do them all: How many votes does it take to lynch a player? No minimum; only majority. You could do it with one if you really wanted. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: Same question as last time: what if the lieutenant is inactive or dies? This ability is meant to solve the problem in the case that all Mordor players want to perform a role action and not do the killing. It isn't required to that the LoM authorize every kill as long as there's no conflict. I'll clarify that in the next draft. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: Is the attacked player notified if they were attacked? (For that matter, does their name show up in the writeup?) I'll make a whole section on roles affecting write-ups and attacks to clarify. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: Nice. Might want to add that they don't gain access to the dead doc until they post that. (And I might suggest having them send the message to you and you posting it instead? That way you can make sure they're fine to post.) I'll do both. Thanks. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: Why is this role Gondor only? Mordor Jailor could be interesting. EDIT: Actually... I don't know. More thoughts about this to come later. The Jailor is a marked-for-death role that the prisoners will want dead, fast. I'd hate to give Mordor a player that might die first round, especially because in my new draft the prisoners will be told the identity of their jailor. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: Especially since it's a QF? Actually... only 26 of the 175 people who've ever played SE have joined in QFs. They're much more likely to join for LGs than anything else, I think, because people will advertise for them outside SE more often if there aren't enough numbers. Plus LGs are generally just larger. And new players are fairly rare. There've been plenty of games where no one new joined at all. So you don't have to worry much about that. Besides, you're a new player and you know better, obviously. People have common sense. We can probably trust them not to use OOG PMs to talk about the game. (Particularly any that are eliminators. They'll realize very quickly that talking about the game is a bad idea. ) Okay, I'll authorize OOG PMs. 1 hour ago, Elbereth said: That said, I don't think you should change it. More uncertainty is a good thing. Since there's limited space on the Mordor team, there's actually a pretty good chance they don't get one. And about the Outlaws, I will clarify their ability affects on other players and the write-up along with the Guard's. Thanks for the input. I should have the next draft ready whenever I get time.
Elenion he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 QF30??: Terror in Minas Tirith (Final Draft unless revisions are necessary) Story Outline Hide contents The year is 2756 in the Third Age. The land of Gondor lies dark and silent, menaced by an ever-growing shadow on its eastern frontier. Minas Ithil has fallen to the Enemy, and it will not be many years until Osgiliath suffers the same fate. But the plans of Sauron wait for no man. Even now, when the forces of Gondor are watching the expansion of Mordor, a few of Sauron's most cunning servants are ready to strike a blow at the heart of Gondor itself. Basic Rules: Hide contents The game is divided into cycles (not like an MR or LG that has days and nights) that are 24 hours long each. The Mordor team get a kill every cycle, submitted as an action by one of their players, and win if they outnumber the remaining Gondor players. The Mordor faction also gets their own doc to scheme in. Dead players will have a dead-player doc and will be allowed to view the Mordor doc. Each cycle, the players as a group chose one player to lynch. The lynch is decided by voting in the active thread. The player will be lynched who has the most votes on them at the end of the cycle. There is no minimum number of votes. A tied lynch will result in the kill being made at random among the players tied for the lead. This choice will me made with a die roll, RNG, or other impartial method. The Gondor players win if all Mordor characters are killed. All actions for the game will be triggered by sending a PM to the game master (referred to later as the GM) unless they are marked passive or triggered. Such actions are always in effect (or, in the case of triggered, only brought into effect when a particular condition is met). Roles are assigned by the GM. Any requests to the GM for a particular role will be denied. After each cycle a write-up will be posted outlining who was lynched and their role, anyone who was killed and their role, and other information subject to the discretion of the GM. Players are not allowed to PM other players for game purposes. Out-of-game PMs are allowed. A player who does not post for 72 straight hours (3 cycles) will be killed. Should a player wish to lurk without posting, a PM sent to the GM to that regard will count as a post for this requirement, but one must still be sent at least every 72 hours. Turnover will be at 9:00 PM Mountain Daylight Time (Brandon Sanderson's time zone). Roles: Spoiler Hide contents Steward of Gondor: Gondor only Palantir of Minas Tirith (active): Each cycle, the Steward may choose to observe one player using the Palantir. The target player's role and alignment will be revealed in a return PM at the same time as the write-up is posted. Lieutenant of Mordor: Mordor only Authority of Mordor (passive): The Lieutenant is the feared commander of the Mordor faction. Should a conflict of interest arise on who must submit the kill, the Lieutenant makes the final choice. Observe (active): The Lieutenant of Mordor may learn the role and alignment of a player. The role and alignment will be revealed at the same time as the Steward's action, and will also be in a PM. Guard of the Citadel: Gondor/Mordor Guard's Training (active): Each night cycle, the Citadel Guard may choose a player to protect (using a PM to the GM). That player is protected from the Mordor kill, but not from any lynching and not from the Noblemen's kill (see Nobleman, below). The guard is notified if he defended from an attack, but does not learn the identity of any of the attackers. Politician: Gondor/Mordor Liar (active): A politician's in-thread lynch votes are not binding. Instead, a Politician votes directly to the GM. If the Politician does not send a PM with their actual vote, their vote defaults to whatever they posted in-thread. Due to this mechanic, the GM's write-up will include only lynch vote totals, not names of voters. Nobleman: Gondor/Mordor Elite Company (passive): Noblemen have access to a special doc where they can discuss among themselves. Personal Assassins (active): The noblemen may vote in their doc to assassinate a character. This assassination disregards protection from Guards of the Citadel and the Outlaw's ability, but can only be used once per game and with a majority vote in the Noblemen's doc. Outlaw: Gondor/Mordor Underworld Connections (active): Once per game, the Outlaw may choose to disappear into the criminal underworld for one night. While there, he is immune to the Mordor kill, but not to the Noblemen's kill. In addition, the Outlaw learns the name (but not role) of all characters who targeted him with any of the following actions: Guard's Training, Observe, and Kill. He does not learn the types of actions used against him, but only which characters targeted him with any of the actions. Players caught using such an action will not be notified that they have been detected. Note: There are no starting Outlaw players; escaped prisoners are considered to have this role. Scribe: Gondor/Mordor Publish (triggered): After the Scribe dies, he/she may make one PM to the GM that will be posted in thread by the GM. It may not contain more than 100 characters (spaces included) and may not contain a vote. Jailor: Gondor only Jail (passive): The Jailor has no ability in and of himself except to keep the prisoners locked up (see Prisoner). Prisoner: Gondor/Mordor Imprisoned (passive): While the Jailor is alive, prisoners may post and vote as normal; however, these votes do not count. Prisoners are notified by PM who their Jailor is at the same time as they receive their role. I'm Free! (triggered): When the Jailor is killed, prisoners lose their special condition and instead gain the ability of an Outlaw. Blocked Kills, Failed Kills, Unsubmitted Kills, and other Non-Basic Rules Spoiler Blocked Kills: A kill that is canceled by a Guard of the Citadel is considered a Blocked Kill A Blocked Kill will not appear in the write-up The Guard will be notified that he fought off an intruder The attacker will be notified that his attack was resisted The target of the attack will not know that he was attacked Failed Kills: A kill whose target has used the Outlaw's Ability is considered a Failed Kill A Failed Kill will not appear in the write-up The attacker will be notified that his target was not at home The target of the attack will receive the standard information about who visited his house Blocked and Failed Kills: It is possible that a Guard will protect an ability-using Outlaw from a kill A Blocked and Failed Kill will not appear in the write-up The Guard will be notified that he fought off an intruder The attacker will be notified that his attack was resisted, but not that the target was not at home The target of the attack will see the two visitors, but not know who did what Unsubmitted Kills: A kill not sent to the GM before write-up is considered an Unsubmitted Kill An Unsubmitted Kill will not appear in the write-up The Mordor team will not be provided an extension in order to send in a kill, but if a kill arrives while the write-up is being written it will be processed Any tech people, I am having problems with a nested spoiler tag on Part 2. Anyone at all, your feedback is appreciated.
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) All right, before we get into the long stuff, here are a few changes in Version 1.2: Clarification on what happens when a Pickpocket attempts to steal an Epic item from someone protected by a Guardian. Autopsy chance further reduced to 12%. Informant’s ability changed to only take effect when you are the one to submit the kill action. The Scribe does not leave his/her house when using the Spanreed Conversation. Highprince of War can't start using his ability until the Assassin has attacked at least once. Any number of Highprinces (excluding the Highprinces of War and Information) may be Parshendi. However, if a Parshendi Highprince is scanned, their role will appear to be “Disguiser” instead of “Highprince of X”. Alignment colors added: Alethi, Parshendi, The Assassin. Item rarity colors added: Common, Rare, Epic. Now the long stuff: ITEMS: Spoiler Shardblade Night action. Odd-numbered cycles only. Choose a player to unblockably kill. The body cannot be autopsied. (In turn order, this will be immediately after the eliminator kill.) Shardplate One-use passive ability. When you would be killed, lose Shardplate instead. You are notified of the attempt on your life. This is the only thing that DOES block kills from The Assassin and Shardblade. (Does not stop you from being lynched or being voted guilty on trial.) Iron Sword Night action. Choose a player to protect. If that player is attacked, you will protect them and kill the attacker but die yourself. The Assassin won’t be deterred and will just kill you. Half-Shard Shield Night action: equip the shield. When you would be killed, if you equipped the shield this turn, lose the Shield instead. You are notified of the attempt on your life. Dead Man’s Switch Night action: rig up the Dead Man’s Switch mechanism. It will last for this night and the following night, after which it will be removed. If you are killed at night while this mechanism is active, the person who killed you will die as well. The Assassin is immune. Modern Medicine Passive ability. If you are killed at night while you possess Modern Medicine, you will take much longer to die and may continue to post and vote until the Day Turn is over. This ability does stack with multiple Modern Medicines; each grants you 1 more turn to live. Advanced Detection Fabrial Night action. Choose a player. If that player performs an action tonight, you will see who they visit (you will not know what action was performed). Dueling Sword Night action. Choose a player to protect. If that player is attacked, you will protect them but die yourself. The Assassin won’t be deterred and will just kill you. Detection Fabrial One-use item. Night action. Choose a player. If that player performs an action tonight, you will see who they visit (you will not know what action was performed). Government Certificate One-use item. Night action. The following day, you gain the power to vote twice. You may vote twice for the same person or once each for two different people. Chocolate Chip Cookie One-use item. Day action. The coroner loves cookies, and giving him one of these will convince him to let you have all of the lynched player’s items. If two players try to give cookies on the same day, the first player to submit the action will receive the lynched player's items and the second will get his/her cookie back. Simple Medicine Passive ability. If you are killed while you possess Simple Medicine, you will take longer to die, so your Death Rattle may be longer (up to 150 characters including spaces instead of 50 characters including spaces). This ability does stack with multiple Simple Medicines; each grants you 100 extra characters including spaces. Investigation Warrant One-use item. Day action. Choose a player and learn their role. Skymark Bribe One-use item. Day action. Choose a player and cancel their vote. Party Invitation One-use item. Night action. Choose a player and cancel their action. NEW PARSHENDI ROLE: Spoiler Nimbleform Rooftop to Rooftop: Night action. Choose a player. You will spy on that player from the rooftops, learning what action they performed and all targets of that action. You will not learn the results of that action. AND A LIST OF (SOME OF) THE GENERAL RULES: Spoiler - Cycles will last for 72 hours in total, with a 48-hour Day Turn and a 24-hour Night Turn. - The Day Turn is when the lynch and some actions (denoted by the text “Day action”) take place. A player requires three votes to be lynched. - The Night Turn is when most actions, including the eliminator kill(s), take place. - All actions and votes must be submitted to the Game Master by 12:00 AM GMT. (For all the Utahns out there, that’s 6:00 PM during Daylight Savings and 5:00 PM otherwise.) Rollover will occur an hour later at 1:00 AM GMT. - A player may only take one action per cycle. For example, if you have a day action and an item that allows you to perform a night action, you may only use one. - Each player begins the game with one item. The standard item probabilities apply: 70% chance of a Common item, 25% chance of a Rare item, and 5% chance of an Epic item. - No game-related PMs between two living players or a living player and a dead player are permitted. Game-related PMs between multiple dead players are permitted. Edited July 16, 2016 by Ecthelion III
Elbereth she/her Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 This is all of my comments from everything before my last post. There are redundancies, sorry. Comments on everything after will come later. Right. More things about Elenion's game: Jailors. You currently have them as Gondor-only. On the one hand, it'd be interesting to have them as a role that the prisoners know is good but also want to kill. On the other... well. What I see happening is that the prisoners reveal the identity of the Jailor (which five or so people can confirm), and boom, confirmed good role. The prisoners might want him dead, sure, but voting isn't as important as a confirmed good role. (Does this game have PMs? I don't remember if you've clarified that already...) The most important thing a player can do isn't vote, it's add their voice to the thread. Which they can do regardless of whether the Jailor's alive or not. So, basically, confirmed good role. I don't suggest that. Secondly, kind of related - concern about the prisoners. If they don't know the identity of the Jailor (or even if they do), I think they might not have much interest in playing the game. They can't do anything, not even vote (and if they're a village prisoner, they probably won't want to vote, because that'd just obfuscate the result - they'd probably just reveal that they're a prisoner and then use a different color to show who they would vote for if they could), and that's not as fun. And discouragement from playing in the games is never a good idea. Outlaws - I don't think that the Mordorians are going to be as concerned as you think they are about the release of the outlaws. It makes the game less chaotic due to knowing how the vote will turn out, which is kind of a bad thing to them, but that kind of detect isn't a huge problem for eliminators. Particularly when it's only once per game. You would have to be a very lucky guesser to use your power when you get attacked, and even then you aren't informed if you were attacked, correct? So if multiple Outlaws used their power (or the Mordorians don't attack for some other reason), it might be hard to tell who's the Mordorian. So I see that coming into play maybe once in the game. Maybe. If the prisoners' votes only count against the Jailor (and they're not confirmed good), it's pretty easy to see what will happen. D1, every prisoner votes on the Jailor, Jailor dies, everyone is free. Yay... Ecthelion's LG:Incorrect. Autopsy can be used on anyone who died last turn, except someone killed by the Assassin. No, but what I mean is... there isn't anyone else but that, essentially. There aren't any other kill roles. Except the Highprince of War, I guess? But essentially other than that one instance, there's virtually no reason that Autopsy will ever be used on anything but the eliminator kill. Maybe I'll do it so you don't have to send one in every night, but if you don't, it'll be the last one you submitted. That way you're not submitting the same one over and over and over again if that happens to be the case. I like that. That works very well. Foreign Affairs was confirmed good because it would be practically worthless for a Parshendi. It's most elemental use is escaping the Parshendi, but if you are a Parshendi, it's not doing you much good. Well, sure, but I can think of a few reasons a Parshendi could want that. If there's an item kill role, they could be escaping that. Or Highprince of Information, or Pickpocket, or whatever else. There are plenty of reasons the Parshendi could find it useful. Okay. I still think that the Highprince of Information (and Highprince of War) should be Alethi-only roles, but for the sake of gameplay over theme I might have to permit Parshendi spies into the other roles. Highprince of War can be confirmed good if you like, I suppose, but I still kinda disagree with Highprince of Information. There's absolutely no way for the Parshendi to pull a fake-Seeker gambit (because Information reveals roles as well as alignments), so the Highprince will be confirmed pretty fast. Less of an issue if you don't limit the possible number of Parshendi highprinces, though, so it's never quite certain whether all of the rest are cleared or not. Overall, it sounds like the game is too village-balanced. Time to come up with some more powerful evil roles! Mwahahahaha... That would certainly help. Would it be all right if I added an item bonus for good roleplaying? Roleplaying incentives are always great. Now. You do have to be careful, because "good roleplaying" is a vague term. How much roleplaying do you have to do to get the bonus? Is it a bonus only granted at the start of the game, or every cycle you RP? Etc. But I love the idea. Right, I believe I'm caught up for now. Can't wait to see the next iterations.
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 Quote But essentially other than that one instance, there's virtually no reason that Autopsy will ever be used on anything but the eliminator kill. I wanted to leave the door open for myself if I wanted to make a kill item, but it looks like at this point it'll just be used for the eliminator kill. Quote Highprince of War can be confirmed good if you like, I suppose, but I still kinda disagree with Highprince of Information. There's absolutely no way for the Parshendi to pull a fake-Seeker gambit (because Information reveals roles as well as alignments), so the Highprince will be confirmed pretty fast. Less of an issue if you don't limit the possible number of Parshendi highprinces, though, so it's never quite certain whether all of the rest are cleared or not. Highprince of War definitely needs to be Alethi, since he's the one reliable way to kill the Assassin other than a lynch. As for Highprince of Information, I just added a Parshendi role that learns actions, if you scroll up to the previous post. Also, remember that the Assassin will kill any defense roles blocking their target as well as the target, so mayoring would be a really bad idea for the Alethi, unless they want the InfoPrince to turn up dead the next day along with 2 Guardians and 4 other villagers defending him with their swords. Quote Roleplaying incentives are always great. Now. You do have to be careful, because "good roleplaying" is a vague term. How much roleplaying do you have to do to get the bonus? Is it a bonus only granted at the start of the game, or every cycle you RP? Etc. But I love the idea. I'm thinking an item award at the beginning of each day cycle, awarded at the GM's discretion. (The same player won't get it more than once unless everyone else who has been roleplaying has already received an item award.)
Elenion he/him Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 @Elbereth I've totaled the number of each role I want and compared them against my expected playing field (15-20) and found that there won't be many spare players to make prisoners anyway. I'll just cut the prisoner/jailer mechanic altogether, eliminating the possible mayor and the concerns about disheartened players altogether. Outlaw will be a starting role again, and between them and writers there should be plenty of vanilla roles mixed in with the scanning and defense. In keeping with the spirit of the prisoner mechanic, that will be my explanation for killing inactives: I can put in the write-up: "_____ was imprisoned for public idleness!"
Elbereth she/her Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) How would the doc be spoiled if the dead players aren't allowed to communicate with the living ones? I mean, 1) once an eliminator gets in there, they know the identities of all of their teammates (and still have access to the doc though they can't talk in it), so that's being spoiled. And 2) dead and living players do talk in OOG PMs, and there's no rule that says a living player can't rant to a dead or spectating player about a game, as long as the dead player doesn't comment. I've done that. I'm doing it with Wilson right now, for both of the current games. Oh, and 3) eventually GMs are usually tempted to spoil the doc for one reason or another. But even without that, once enough players have died they can usually start piecing together the puzzle. No minimum; only majority. You could do it with one if you really wanted. Ah, perfect. Given that this is a QF, that's probably best. This ability is meant to solve the problem in the case that all Mordor players want to perform a role action and not do the killing. It isn't required to that the LoM authorize every kill as long as there's no conflict. I'll clarify that in the next draft. I mean... okay. I still see it as an essentially redundant role (if that were the case in the normal course of things, the team would just pick the person for whom the role action is least necessary, or if every singly one was necessary there just wouldn't be a kill), but meh. I do highly suggest going to read an evil doc if you haven't, but it wouldn't do any harm to wait until MR15 finishes and read those. Okay, I'll authorize OOG PMs. The other thing I wanted to say about this... There are players here who have been in essentially constant OOG conversation for two years. While they could stop for a game, there's really no reason for them to, and it's not like they'll be talking about the game anyway. OOG PMs are by definition out of game. So you don't have control over them, to authorize them or not. If there's a problem, the impartial mod and the GM will handle it. Far as I'm aware there hasn't yet been a problem caused by OOG PMs, though. (Closest analogy is SE players who know each other in real life.) We trust everyone to exercise common sense, and it works out. Since there's limited space on the Mordor team, there's actually a pretty good chance they don't get one. Sure. Probably best not to say anything more about the evil team distribution, though. More fun to keep it a surprise. The blocked/failed kill thing: It's fine, but I could say it in fewer words. "If the Guard successfully protects from a kill, the guard will be notified but not the target, and it will not appear in the writeup." "If the Mordorians attack an Outlaw using their ability, the kill will not appear in the writeup and the Mordorians will be notified that their target was not at home." That's really all you need. And I'd recommend putting them in the Outlaw and Guard roles (the second could also potentially go with the Mordor bit) rather than their own separate spoiler. It's a good sign that I've already gotten to just correcting semantics with you. It's a good game, and I shall be excited to play it. Regarding blocked and failed kills? I'd actually recommend that the Outlaw ability comes before Guarding, so that the Guard doesn't get notified that there was a kill, just that his/her target wasn't home. That makes more sense to me. With unsubmitted kills, I wouldn't give them the leeway of the writeup, personally. It's a lot easier to just cut everyone off at a specific time. And that way you don't have to change the writeup halfway through writing it. You don't want to have to do that. Trust me. It's not fun. Oh, also, would this game be role madness? (i.e. everyone has a role other than vanilla villager) 2 hours ago, Elenion said: @Elbereth I've totaled the number of each role I want and compared them against my expected playing field (15-20) and found that there won't be many spare players to make prisoners anyway. I'll just cut the prisoner/jailer mechanic altogether, eliminating the possible mayor and the concerns about disheartened players altogether. Outlaw will be a starting role again, and between them and writers there should be plenty of vanilla roles mixed in with the scanning and defense. In keeping with the spirit of the prisoner mechanic, that will be my explanation for killing inactives: I can put in the write-up: "_____ was imprisoned for public idleness!" Ah, excellent! That sounds fine to me. And it gets rid of some of my previous points, but I'm not going to go through and take them out. Just ignore them. (And you don't have to @ me. It's redundant.) Great. On to the next. For mine, before you ask, yes, the player who is defended by the Guardian is notified that they were attacked, but their name DOES NOT show up in the write-up. Excellent. Does the fact that there was an attack at all show up? Any number of Highprinces (excluding the Highprinces of War and Information) may be Parshendi. However, if a Parshendi Highprince is scanned, their role will appear to be “Disguiser” instead of “Highprince of X”. Nice. So it's not revealed what highprince they're imitating? Would it be revealed in the writeup? Shardblade Night action. Odd-numbered cycles only. Choose a player to unblockably kill. The body cannot be autopsied. (In turn order, this will be immediately after the eliminator kill.) Question. Why is this unblockable? (Not saying it shouldn't be. Just asking.) Also, while you can make it only odd-numbered cycles, another way would be that it takes a cycle cooldown, so you can only make it every other cycle. You don't have to, but that's an option. Iron Sword Night action. Choose a player to protect. If that player is attacked, you will protect them and kill the attacker but die yourself. The Assassin won’t be deterred and will just kill you. That's a good item, but remember to have very few of these in the game. (LG4 had one and it caused problems. To be fair, there was good reason for that, and LG4 had more than that as a problem, but still.) Can you self-target? Modern Medicine Passive ability. If you are killed at night while you possess Modern Medicine, you will take much longer to die and may continue to post and vote until the Day Turn is over. This ability does stack with multiple Modern Medicines; each grants you 1 more turn to live. I like this. Government Certificate One-use item. Night action. The following day, you gain the power to vote twice. You may vote twice for the same person or once each for two different people. Is this voting publicly in thread, or is one of the votes private? (If both votes are public, I know from experience that this is going to be very rarely used except maybe by eliminators pulling a hammer. Particularly since you have to know the night before that you'll want to vote twice.) Simple Medicine Passive ability. If you are killed while you possess Simple Medicine, you will take longer to die, so your Death Rattle may be longer (up to 150 characters including spaces instead of 50 characters including spaces). This ability does stack with multiple Simple Medicines; each grants you 100 extra characters including spaces. Ooh. I quite like that. It's not very useful in the sense that while more than 50 characters may allow you to make youre point more eloquently, anything you really want to say can probably be done in fifty characters. But I like it. Nimbleform Rooftop to Rooftop: Night action. Choose a player. You will spy on that player from the rooftops, learning what action they performed and all targets of that action. You will not learn the results of that action. ...I can't tell if that's OP or not. On the one hand, you're essentially learning your target's role/item (how specific is what you learn? Is it "Wilson killed Elbereth" or "Wilson used a Shardblade on Elbereth"?) and who they targeted with it. On the other hand, the eliminators might need that... hm. Not sure. - The Day Turn is when the lynch and some actions (denoted by the text “Day action”) take place. A player requires three votes to be lynched. Interesting. That might be a little high (most games only require two), but given the voting patterns recently it might not be a problem. So that's probably fine. Just prepare for a couple days of no lynch, potentially. Also, when it gets into late game, if it's a really close game, there might not be enough for three votes on a single person, either because people can't agree or because there aren't enough people. (LG16 got down to three people, after all. And that was decided by one person's vote.) - No game-related PMs between two living players or a living player and a dead player are permitted. Game-related PMs between multiple dead players are permitted. See what I said above to Elenion. Essentially, this bit isn't necessary. Players will exercise their good judgement, and everything will be fine. I wanted to leave the door open for myself if I wanted to make a kill item, but it looks like at this point it'll just be used for the eliminator kill. Yep, pretty much. 12% is good, then. Highprince of War definitely needs to be Alethi, since he's the one reliable way to kill the Assassin other than a lynch. As for Highprince of Information, I just added a Parshendi role that learns actions, if you scroll up to the previous post. Which isn't the same thing as learning roles, since items exist. So the Parshendi still can't replicate it. Also, remember that the Assassin will kill any defense roles blocking their target as well as the target, so mayoring would be a really bad idea for the Alethi, unless they want the InfoPrince to turn up dead the next day along with 2 Guardians and 4 other villagers defending him with their swords. Now. This I had forgotten about. This helps a lot, although there's always the worry fo the Assassin dying early. But still. That does make things a good deal better. I'm thinking an item award at the beginning of each day cycle, awarded at the GM's discretion. (The same player won't get it more than once unless everyone else who has been roleplaying has already received an item award.) Hm. I don't like that as much, because it turns it into a competition between RPers, rather than a reward that anyone can get, as many a cycle as RP. If it were random among people who had RPed, maybe? But just having the GM pick feels too much like favoritism. Also, this doesn't encourage people to continue RPing, just to RP until they get the prize and then stop. Edited July 17, 2016 by Elbereth
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 Quote Does the fact that there was an attack at all show up? The write-up does not contain that there was an attack. For example, if no kills period occurred, it would say "No one died today!" Quote So it's not revealed what highprince they're imitating? Would it be revealed in the writeup? When scanned, the scanner does not learn what Highprince they're imitating. However, when they die, they will appear as "Parshendi Highprince of Food", for example. The "Disguiser" is just for scans. Quote Question. Why is this unblockable? (Not saying it shouldn't be. Just asking.) Also, while you can make it only odd-numbered cycles, another way would be that it takes a cycle cooldown, so you can only make it every other cycle. You don't have to, but that's an option. It's unblockable because some guy with an iron sword can't stop a Shardbearer. I do like the cycle cooldown ability, I think I'll implement that next version. Quote That's a good item, but remember to have very few of these in the game. (LG4 had one and it caused problems. To be fair, there was good reason for that, and LG4 had more than that as a problem, but still.) Can you self-target? Wow, you must have a good memory! You cannot self target. I also forgot to add the text that the item is used up once you fend an attacker off. Quote Is this voting publicly in thread, or is one of the votes private? (If both votes are public, I know from experience that this is going to be very rarely used except maybe by eliminators pulling a hammer. Particularly since you have to know the night before that you'll want to vote twice.) I was going to make it public, but what you said makes sense. This will require a rework. Quote ...I can't tell if that's OP or not. On the one hand, you're essentially learning your target's role/item (how specific is what you learn? Is it "Wilson killed Elbereth" or "Wilson used a Shardblade on Elbereth"?) and who they targeted with it. On the other hand, the eliminators might need that... hm. Not sure. It's the former, "Wilson used Iron Sword protecting Elbereth" or "The Young Bard stayed home and equipped his Half-Shard Shield". Quote Interesting. That might be a little high (most games only require two), but given the voting patterns recently it might not be a problem. So that's probably fine. Just prepare for a couple days of no lynch, potentially. Also, when it gets into late game, if it's a really close game, there might not be enough for three votes on a single person, either because people can't agree or because there aren't enough people. (LG16 got down to three people, after all. And that was decided by one person's vote.) Okay, 2 sounds good. Definitely not 1 though. Quote Which isn't the same thing as learning roles, since items exist. So the Parshendi still can't replicate it. He can always make something up about a teammate if he sees someone using an item one turn. But this shouldn't be as much of a problem seeing as mayoring would result from a quick death at the hand of the Assassin. Speaking of the Assassin, he's one way to make the game less village-balanced, so if he dies right at the beginning it would be more difficult for the eliminators to win. He's really hard to kill, though. Quote Hm. I don't like that as much, because it turns it into a competition between RPers, rather than a reward that anyone can get, as many a cycle as RP. If it were random among people who had RPed, maybe? But just having the GM pick feels too much like favoritism. Also, this doesn't encourage people to continue RPing, just to RP until they get the prize and then stop. Your logic is definitely sound. I'll rework this.
Elenion he/him Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Elbereth said: Regarding blocked and failed kills? I'd actually recommend that the Outlaw ability comes before Guarding, so that the Guard doesn't get notified that there was a kill, just that his/her target wasn't home. That makes more sense to me. Here's how I visualize it: the Guard is standing out on the street concealed, watching the exterior of the target player's house. Along comes a suspicious-looking character in a hood and-wham!-instant street fight. The assailant turns and flees, never getting into the target player's house. The guard doesn't spy through the house's windows because he's to honorable for that sort of thing, and so knows nothing other than that a Mordor guy got chased off. 3 hours ago, Elbereth said: Oh, also, would this game be role madness? (i.e. everyone has a role other than vanilla villager) Every player has a role; some are just more involved than others. The Steward of Gondor is the most involved as he's the scanning role as well as Mordor's biggest target. The Lieutenant of Mordor is also expected to be very active, as well as the Guards of the Citadel. But once you get past this point the roles get a little less involved. The Politician also is a powerful role if used correctly, but it can be used with little strategy as well. The Noblemen scheme away in their doc, but other than their nuke they are basically a vanilla villager. The Outlaw's ability is only once per game, and so they spend most of the game as a vanilla villager. The Writer is the most vanilla of all; their ability only does anything after they are dead. So really, there are no players that are outright vanilla, but a 3 main roles have a large component of vanilla. After I draw up the next draft I should be good! Thanks for your help.
Elbereth she/her Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) When scanned, the scanner does not learn what Highprince they're imitating. However, when they die, they will appear as "Parshendi Highprince of Food", for example. The "Disguiser" is just for scans. Cool. It's unblockable because some guy with an iron sword can't stop a Shardbearer. I do like the cycle cooldown ability, I think I'll implement that next version. Sure, okay. Although maybe also include Half-Shards, just for flavor? Wow, you must have a good memory! You cannot self target. I also forgot to add the text that the item is used up once you fend an attacker off. Heh. Not as good as you think, or not for those reasons at least. I actually only read through LG4 a few weeks ago. I wasn't playing at the time. Ah. Now that's excellent. One-use makes it much better. It's the former, "Wilson used Iron Sword protecting Elbereth" or "The Young Bard stayed home and equipped his Half-Shard Shield". Uh, isn't that the latter? And that makes it more powerful. And I know that powerful evil roles are a good thing given how village-balanced the game is, but at the same time having one role on the evil team (or on the village, for that matter) that's superpowered is a lot riskier because there's nothing saying that person won't die early (or go inactive...) and then the team will be really disadvantaged. Okay, 2 sounds good. Definitely not 1 though. Great. That's fine. He can always make something up about a teammate if he sees someone using an item one turn. But this shouldn't be as much of a problem seeing as mayoring would result from a quick death at the hand of the Assassin. Speaking of the Assassin, he's one way to make the game less village-balanced, so if he dies right at the beginning it would be more difficult for the eliminators to win. He's really hard to kill, though. Ah, I suppose that since it does reveal specific items/roles it's not as bad. Could go around that by asking them to call their shots ahead of time, but it's potentially, barely doable. And you could get around the Assassin to an extent through proxies. Since there are PMs (although very limited, which is definitely a very good thing), if a Scribe finds the Highprince of Information, they could set up a code so that the Highprince wouldn't have to reveal to the thread in order to reveal results (and they'd probably reveal only alignment so the Assassin doesn't know whether they're highprinces or not, although you haven't confirmed that the Assassin's goal is to kill the Highprinces (and you shouldn't)). And regarding the Assassin. Yes, he makes the game less village-balanced, which is a good thing. I'm still somewhat concerned about either a) dying early (and in this case given that it's a LG and how much of a difference it could make, early could be as late as C4 or so and still be problematic), or going inactive, which is also an issue (which you can counterbalance maybe by deliberately picking the person who is the Assassin, or picking it from a pool of people who are less likely to go inactive, but the problem with that is that those people are also generally more likely to die early). Kind of like Nimbleform above, it's usually not a good idea to put all of your balance relying on one or two people. Quote Here's how I visualize it: the Guard is standing out on the street concealed, watching the exterior of the target player's house. Along comes a suspicious-looking character in a hood and-wham!-instant street fight. The assailant turns and flees, never getting into the target player's house. The guard doesn't spy through the house's windows because he's to honorable for that sort of thing, and so knows nothing other than that a Mordor guy got chased off. Ah. Okay, interesting. I can see that flavorwise. My instinct against that came from... dunno. The Explorer in MR10, maybe? If a player is untargetable, that should apply to all situations. There shouldn't be a specific situation in which that doesn't apply just because of a particular role interaction. (Also, this way if the Guard and the Outlaw get into contact, they can pretty easily figure out about the Mordorian, which I don't really like.) Quote Every player has a role; some are just more involved than others. The Steward of Gondor is the most involved as he's the scanning role as well as Mordor's biggest target. The Lieutenant of Mordor is also expected to be very active, as well as the Guards of the Citadel. But once you get past this point the roles get a little less involved. The Politician also is a powerful role if used correctly, but it can be used with little strategy as well. The Noblemen scheme away in their doc, but other than their nuke they are basically a vanilla villager. The Outlaw's ability is only once per game, and so they spend most of the game as a vanilla villager. The Writer is the most vanilla of all; their ability only does anything after they are dead. So really, there are no players that are outright vanilla, but a 3 main roles have a large component of vanilla. Hm, first, correction: the Steward is the biggest role-wise target for Mordor. That doesn't mean that's the person they'll most want to take out. If Con (just using him as an example because he was L in QF15 - he's probably gotten better with scanning roles since then) is the steward but Wilson is playing, and the eliminators know both of those things? At least part of the time they'll take out Wilson first. Because she's more dangerous to them. Second, some of the same stuff I was saying above: You're still relying on the Steward being active. Which is not necessarily a good assumption to make. So be careful about that. Third... yeah, okay. I mean, I have some quibbles with the term 'involved', because you're implying that some roles are expected to be more active than others (and thus the reverse is also true). And thus they're more important. But in general you answered my question, so excellent. Well. I tried a couple quotes, manually. We'll see if they work... EDIT: Yay! Edited July 17, 2016 by Elbereth
Elenion he/him Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, Elbereth said: There shouldn't be a specific situation in which that doesn't apply just because of a particular role interaction. The Outlaw's ability doesn't work on the Noblemen's because of 2 reasons: 1. That would make the Noblemen's ability not a full nuke, and, more importantly, 2. Thematically, they use different tactics. The Mordor characters are straightforward, they burn houses, use hit-and-run carriage attacks, snipe with arrows, that sort of thing. They are new to the city and have few non-Mordor contacts. The assassins from the noblemen are more involved: they've lived in the city for years. They know all the best hiding places, have innumerable contacts, and know that they must kill their target to remain alive themselves. 12 minutes ago, Elbereth said: (Also, this way if the Guard and the Outlaw get into contact, they can pretty easily figure out about the Mordorian, which I don't really like.) But how would they get into contact? They have no PMs, they don't have a private doc, and one is a prime target for next round's Mordor kill if they reveal themselves. And if the guard self-protects and tries to go mayor, the Mordorians could just kill enough of the Noblemen to gain a kill in that doc and use the nuke on the unfortunate mayor.
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 Quote I do highly suggest going to read an evil doc if you haven't, but it wouldn't do any harm to wait until MR15 finishes and read those. Just tried reading LG17's eliminator doc. Was filled with discussions about the effects of alcohol (as well as drunk posts) O.o
Elbereth she/her Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 Elenion, what I'm saying isn't that the Nobleman shouldn't be able to go through the Outlaw. I'm okay with that. I'm saying that the Guard shouldn't be able to be blocked by the Outlaw power except when there's a kill. Second point is fair, though. And yeah... LG17 doc was more off-topic than usual. Rae tends to do that to docs. I can't really think of a particularly good doc to recommend at the moment, though. There isn't a really generic this-is-what-evil-docs-are-like-in-general one that I can think of. They all have individual quirks. (And I'd be happy to outline a few in more detail so you could pick what sounded interesting to you, but I have to go to bed now. Maybe in the morning if you'd like.) I don't know... QF15, maybe? Not sure that's a good example, though, no matter how fun it was. MR10? Dunno. I'll have to think about that.
Arraenae Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, Elbereth said: Elenion, what I'm saying isn't that the Nobleman shouldn't be able to go through the Outlaw. I'm okay with that. I'm saying that the Guard shouldn't be able to be blocked by the Outlaw power except when there's a kill. Second point is fair, though. And yeah... LG17 doc was more off-topic than usual. Rae tends to do that to docs. I can't really think of a particularly good doc to recommend at the moment, though. There isn't a really generic this-is-what-evil-docs-are-like-in-general one that I can think of. They all have individual quirks. (And I'd be happy to outline a few in more detail so you could pick what sounded interesting to you, but I have to go to bed now. Maybe in the morning if you'd like.) I don't know... QF15, maybe? Not sure that's a good example, though, no matter how fun it was. MR10? Dunno. I'll have to think about that. You call it off-topic. I call it team bonding. Maybe LG15b's eliminator doc? That was an interesting one. Edited July 17, 2016 by Arraenae Added info
Elbereth she/her Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, STINK said: LG15A is the best evil doc by far I won't argue (although my personal opinion is that the GB doc was the best that I've read), but I will point out that it's also very much not a usual evil doc, given that it all took place over 48 hours. Most docs have some kind of quirk, though. With just the games since I've been playing... Okay, spoilering this because it's long and probably too detailed (I had a while in the car and not much else to do): QF11 had no evil doc, QF12 was fine although short, QF13 was super short (and I'm not entirely sure I remember actually reading it), QF14 was essentially just Orlok and Lopen talking because everyone else on the team was inactive (), QF15 was very fun for me at least (Joe, Hael, Alv, and I in a doc together? yes please) but it was also quite a small team so the team dynamic wasn't quite the same (because since it was only two people there was no miscommunications due to different parts of the team being on at different times, which definitely works better but doesn't outline a normal evil doc), and QF16 is amusing but it's also essentially just Joe's descent into madness and not much else. So QF12 is probaby the best example of that kind of doc. The MRs are actually pretty good in general for being more generic - MR10 is pretty average, MR11 is normal except that I decided to pretend not to be evil, MR12 is good I think? although I don't remember much of that doc, MR13 was fine but is in my opinion a rather boring doc (it's entirely strategy and no fluff whatsoever, which is kinda sad), MR14 is good though it gets a bit sad towards the end (when everyone starts dying) and is pretty short, and MR15 is still going. LG15a I mentioned - it's a good doc; I don't think it's worth reading for strategy reasons but it's certainly amusing (it's also quite long, given that it was only in place for 48 hours). LG15b I don't really recommend (it has some good parts with evil!Wilson and evil!Burnt, but it got really quiet once Wilson died, and then everyone else died and it was sad). LG16 was also fairly off-topic from what I remember, though not as much as LG17, but it's not bad. LG17 was, as you say, very off-topic. LG18 wasn't bad (had an interesting dynamic because it was two pairs of people who know each other IRL), though I don't recommend reading it because its mechanics were so complicated that it'll probably be rather difficult to follow the strategy discussions without referencing the 8k words of the rules constantly, which isn't all that fun. LG19 doc I don't recommend. No one talked after Hael died. It was very sad. LG20 is the GB doc, which I love, but it's 130,000 words and the non-strategy discussions could be a little confusing without context (if anyone does decide to read it (which I kinda doubt) and gets confused, PM me and I'd be happy to clarify) given that it's five old friends bantering about everything from melting the polar ice caps in an attempt to conquer the world to evil pandas. LG21 doc is actually quite nice. I suppose it's a bit long. But it's good. Some in-game stuff, some amusing discussion of Alv. That was a good doc. Oh, and AG2. Which is interesting because it's a doc of almost entirely new players. Got quiet at the end, but in general it was fairly average. Oh, and there's the docs I've read from the beginning of games, I guess. I don't really recommend those as much, though, since the metagame has changed significantly. That said, LG1 and LG2 docs are quite nice. LG3 is sad and quiet and then they died. LG4... meh. There's a nice bit of Wilson's brilliance at the end, but most of it isn't all that interesting. LG5 I do not recommend - it's entirely strategy with no fluff for something like 60k. I didn't enjoy reading that doc particularly. So none of those, really. And QF1 didn't have a doc. So my recommendations, then: QF12 for the QFs (doc wasn't released at the end of the game, but it's in Wilson's spreadsheet and I have the link). MR10 or MR12 for MRs. LGs are a bit more variable, but LG21 and maybe LG16 or AG2. Well. That was fun. I'm not sure anyone cares, but yeah. I got a bit bored. Edited July 18, 2016 by Elbereth 3
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 I cared. I rather like your assessment of the docs.
Straw he/him Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Rough game idea: Each player has a # of breaths that they can use. Teams: Spies Hallandren Citizens Roles: Drab: 0 Breaths Citizen: 1 Breaths Wealthy Citizen: 2 Breaths Businessman: 3 Breaths Priest: 4 Breaths. Knows the identity of every Returned. Cannot vote for or kill a Returned. Merchant: 5 Breaths. Can find out the role and alignment of one player each turn. Cannot accept or give any breaths. Awakener: 8 Breaths. Can use higher level awakening. Returned: 1 Breath. Can heal a player once this game. Uses up a breath each cycle, if they have no breaths they die. You have access to every heightening up to the 5th heightening. Awakening: Give all your breaths to a player of your choice. Cost: 0 Breaths. Create a lifeless that will protect you for one turn. Cost: 1 Breaths. Awaken a cloth that will kill anybody who attacks you. Cost: 2 Breaths. Create a animal lifeless that will tell you the role and alignment of two random players. Cost: 3 Breaths. Awaken a rope that will kill a player of your choice. Cost: 4 Breaths. Higher awakening: Create a stone lifeless that will protect you from all kill attempts. Cost: 8 Breaths. Create a awakened sword that you can use to kill one player per turn. Cost: 8 Breaths Heightenings: 1st heightening: You know the total # of breaths in the game. Requires one breath. 2nd heightening: You can negate another players vote. Requires two breaths. 3rd heightening: You know every type of awakening that has been used each cycle. Requires three breaths. 4th heightening: You discover the identity of anyone who uses a action on you. Requires five breaths. 5th heightening: You can survive one kill attempt. Requires eight breaths. 6th heightening: All awakening costs half as many breaths. Requires eleven breaths. 7th heightening: You know the amount of breath used each cycle. Requires thirteen breaths. 8th heightening: Each cycle you can stop a player from using any awakening. Requires fifteen breaths. 9th heightening: You can use higher awakening for half the cost. You can use higher awakening. Requires seventeen breaths. 10th heightening: You win the game. Requires every breath left in the game. Edited July 18, 2016 by Straw
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) A few minor changes: - Rules clarification: the exact cause of death will always be in the write-up. For example: “Ecthelion III was an Alethi Pickpocket! He was killed by an Iron Sword while trying to rob someone of an item!” - Highprince of Food starts the game with an extra Chocolate Chip Cookie. - Highprince of Information’s Private Investigation changed to a Night action. - Highprince of Research’s Field Research changed to a Night action. - Shardblades can be blocked, except by Guardian, Iron Sword, and Dueling Sword - Clarification: Highprince of Finance does not leave his/her house. Edited July 19, 2016 by Ecthelion III Grammar
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 The Vengeance Pact (final version, as far as I know) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9xWxXaUn36WdXhLNUlpTkgydjQ/view?usp=sharing
Elenion he/him Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 New draft: typos fixed, doc access for dead players clarified, excess roles removed, Noblemen's kill rules added. QF30??: Terror in Minas Tirith (Final Draft unless revisions are necessary) Story Outline Hide contents The year is 2756 in the Third Age. The land of Gondor lies dark and silent, menaced by an ever-growing shadow on its eastern frontier. Minas Ithil has fallen to the Enemy, and it will not be many years until Osgiliath suffers the same fate. But the plans of Sauron wait for no man. Even now, when the forces of Gondor are watching the expansion of Mordor, a few of Sauron's most cunning servants are ready to strike a blow at the heart of Gondor itself. Rules: Hide contents The game is divided into cycles that are 24 hours long each. The Mordor team get a kill every cycle, submitted as an action by one of their players, and win if they outnumber the remaining Gondor players. The Mordor faction also gets their own doc to scheme in. Each cycle, the players as a group chose one player to lynch. Lynch votes in the active thread must be listed in Red, with retractions in Green. The player will be lynched who has the most votes on them at the end of the cycle. There is no minimum number of votes. A tied lynch will result in the kill being made at random among the players tied for the lead. This choice will me made with a die roll, RNG, or other impartial method. The Gondor players win if all Mordor characters are killed. Dead players have access to a special dead doc, but will not have access to the Mordor doc until the game is over. Actions will be triggered by sending a PM to the GM. Actions that must be triggered this way are marked as "active" in the roles list. The Mordor kill is considered an active action. A player may only trigger one active action per round. Roles are assigned by the GM. Any requests to the GM for a particular role will be denied. After each cycle a write-up will be posted outlining who was lynched and their alignment/role, anyone who was killed and their alignment/role, and other information or narrative subject to the discretion of the GM. Players are not allowed to PM other players for game purposes. Out-of-game PMs are allowed. A player who does not post for 72 straight hours (3 cycles) will be imprisoned for public idleness (killed). Should a player wish to lurk without posting, a PM sent to the GM to that regard will count as a post for this requirement, but one must still be sent at least every 72 hours. Turnover will be at 9:00 PM Mountain Daylight Time (Brandon Sanderson's time zone). Roles: Hide contents Hide contents Steward of Gondor: Gondor only Palantir of Minas Tirith (active): Each cycle, the Steward may choose to observe one player using the Palantir. The target player's role and alignment will be revealed in a return PM at the same time as the write-up is posted. Lieutenant of Mordor: Mordor only Scheme (active): Each cycle ,the Lieutenant of Mordor may learn the role and alignment of a player. The role and alignment will be revealed at the same time as the Steward's action, and will also be in a PM. Guard of the Citadel: Gondor/Mordor Guard's Training (active): Each cycle, the Citadel Guard may choose a player to protect (using a PM to the GM). That player is protected from the Mordor kill, but not from any lynching and not from the Noblemen's kill (see Nobleman, below). The guard is notified if he defended from an attack, but does not learn the identity of any of the attackers. Politician: Gondor/Mordor Liar (active): A politician's in-thread lynch votes are not binding. Instead, a Politician votes directly to the GM. If the Politician does not send a PM with their actual vote, their vote defaults to whatever they posted in-thread. Due to this mechanic, the GM's write-up will include only lynch vote totals, not names of voters. Nobleman: Gondor/Mordor Elite Company (passive): Noblemen have access to a special doc where they can discuss among themselves. Personal Assassins (active): The noblemen may vote in their doc to assassinate a character. This assassination disregards protection from Guards of the Citadel and the Outlaw's ability, but can only be used once per game and with a majority vote in the Noblemen's doc. Outlaw: Gondor/Mordor Underworld Connections (active): Once per game, the Outlaw may choose to disappear into the criminal underworld for one night. While there, he is immune to the Mordor kill, but not to the Noblemen's kill. In addition, the Outlaw learns the name (but not role) of all characters who targeted him with any of the following actions: Guard's Training, Scheme, and Kill. He does not learn the types of actions used against him, but only which characters targeted him with any of the actions. Players caught using such an action will not be notified that they have been detected. Scribe: Gondor/Mordor Publish (triggered): After the Scribe dies, he/she may make one PM to the GM that will be posted in thread by the GM. It may not contain more than 100 characters (spaces included) and may not contain a vote. Non-Traditional Kill Situations and Their Results: Hide contents Blocked Kills: Kills canceled by a Guard of the Citadel A Blocked Kill will not appear in the write-up The Guard will be notified that he fought off an intruder The attacker will be notified that his attack was resisted The target of the attack will not know that he was attacked Failed Kills: Kills whose target has used the Outlaw's ability A Failed Kill will not appear in the write-up The attacker will be notified that his target was not at home The target of the attack will receive the standard information about who visited his house Blocked and Failed Kills: It is possible that a Guard will protect an ability-using Outlaw from a kill A Blocked and Failed Kill will not appear in the write-up The Guard will be notified that he fought off an intruder The attacker will be notified that his attack was resisted, but not that the target was not at home The target of the attack will see the two visitors (per their ability), but not know who did what The Noblemen's Kill: The target will be killed, disregarding any protection from an Outlaw's or Guard's abilities The kill will appear in the write-up, but will be indistinguishable from the Mordor kill A killed Outlaw will be notifed that assassins hunted him down. He will not learn the names of visitors to his house that night A bypassed Guard will be notified that a kill attempt occurred that he was not able to stop Unsubmitted Kills: A kill not sent to the GM before write-up is considered an Unsubmitted Kill An Unsubmitted Kill will not appear in the write-up The Mordor team will not be provided an extension in order to send in a kill Feedback still appreciated.
little wilson she/her Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 @Ecthelion III My comments on the Vengeance Pact: Safe Roles My first suggestion is to make the rules as neutral as you can. You can keep in mind that you won't be giving a couple roles to eliminators, but putting it in the rules makes it really easy to exploit the safe role. And while you've got things in place for a mayor to die easily, all of that's contingent on the assassin killing that person. If the mayor is the Highprince of War, well, obviously the Assassin will kill them, because War is one of the biggest threats to them (the other being a Shardblade). But why would War reveal themselves when their ability is only of use to kill the Assassin and the Assassin can kill them no matter what? They wouldn't. So that leaves Information. And Information isn't a threat to the Assassin. The Assassin shows up as Alethi to Information. So they don't really have any reason to kill the mayor. This leaves the mayor as threat to only the Parshendi. Can the Parshendi kill him? Unlikely. Which leads me to the next bit. Protection Items/Roles Food, Foreign Affairs, Law, Guardian, Shardplate, Iron Sword, Half-Shard Shield, Dueling Sword. All of these keep the person targeted by the Parshendi from dying. These means that the Parshendi will have bloody hard time at killing their chosen targets. Want to know what makes it even worse? Protections That Kill Iron Sword. So now not only do the Parshendi have trouble killing their target, but they also have to worry about dying because they tried to kill someone. Now, you might think that because it's one-use for each item (after all, the person protecting the target dies), but it doesn't help much. See, the Parshendi start with a very limited number on their team. Every teammate lost makes it harder to win the game, which is the case for the villagers too, but it means a lot more to the eliminators, who start with significantly less players. In a 25 player game with 5 eliminators, 1 village death is only 5% of the village team but 1 eliminator death is 20% of their team. That means every death needs to count. Now, you could say that they need to kill everyone, so the fact that someone is dying gets them closer to their win con. But I don't know about you, but I'd rather kill the Highprince of Information than a Darkeyes with an Iron Sword, even if I'd have to kill the Darkeyes eventually. Information is more of a threat. And that's the thing. Priorities. Some people/roles will be a higher priority kill than others, and those higher priority targets are usually better protected. Ways to Kill Assassin, Pickpocket, Shardblade, Iron Sword, Dead Man's Switch. Some of these are more problematic than others, obviously, and all of them are things that are going to cause issues for the Parshendi. While none of them inherently target the Parshendi, I think you'll find that the Parshendi will have more problems dealing with the kills than the Alethi or the Assassin. After all, nothing can kill the Assassin except for War or a Shardblade. And the Alethi don't have to worry as much about the Dead Man's Switch or the Iron Sword unless they have a vigilante Shardblade-wielder. Point is, the Parshendi will have a much bigger problem with the kill items and roles than the other alignments, which is a problem. Other Potential Issues Highprince of Commerce: This reminds me a lot of LG10 and Endowment. Someone having a list of people that certainly contains an eliminator. This usually ends poorly. I could potentially see Commerce just going "Hey guys, I'm Commerce, and here's the four people on my list" and then the village just killing them one by one until they find the eliminator. Highprince of Judiciary Administration: This person is highly unlikely to choose an impartial group that will actually listen to the defendant. Instead, they will choose 4 others who are as convinced as they are of the person's guilt. The idea of holding a mini-trial is a great idea, but it wouldn't work like this, because it won't impartial. Those judges will not listen to any defense provided. They've already made up their mind or JA wouldn't have chosen them for the trial. Any defendant is highly unlikely to be found not guilty. Party Invitation: Should probably be a Rare Item, since roleblocking is actually a fairly powerful tool and there are other roleblocking roles in the game. Plus, since anyone who accepts a bribe from Finance gets a random Common item, it makes it likely that there will be a few invitations running around during a game. The current version of the game still has some rather major balance issues. Any individual issue by itself wouldn't be that bad. Protect-kills are perfectly viable. It's just that the combination of all of these makes it really difficult for the eliminators to have a shot, since that's a lot to overcome. 1
Ecthelion III he/him Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the review, @little wilson! If you're short on time because you're busy, you can just read the changes in bold. Safe Roles The only two safe roles are War and Information, and War wouldn't reveal himself, as you said, so that just leaves Information. I've been thinking about this one for a while actually, between your suggestion and Elbereth's suggestions to have as few safe roles as possible, and I think I'll make Information neutral, I guess. There's a low chance anyway that the RNG would pick a Parshendi for Information. Protection Items/Roles After MR15 with a ton of Duelists and Monks and Merchants where the eliminators couldn't get any kills, I definitely think this needs to be changed. The changes I'm considering are: Arrested players aren't protected, Dead Man's Switch is a one-use that only lasts the round you equip it, Food has different ability altogether. I don't think Half-Shard Shield is as much of a problem, since it eats your action every cycle. That leaves Foreign Affairs, Guardian, Shardplate (there's only one Epic in the whole game so that one is fairly restricted in total game impact), and the Swords. The Swords need a rework of some kind, let me think about that one. Protections that Kill This shouldn't be AS much of a problem with Information as a neutral role, so now there's no mayoring. Also keep in mind that Nimbleform is immune to dying while killing. The above nerf on Dead Man's Switch should alleviate this problem more, as will the Swords rework. Ways to Kill I don't think Pickpocket will be a problem since there's only 1 Epic item in the game, so it's just luck if someone dies to one. With the Sword and Dead Man's Switch fixes this should be better; those two seem to be the items causing problems. Highprince of Commerce Do you think that issue would be fixed by adding more people to the list? (For example, if he had 6 or 7 people, the village wouldn't want to lynch all of them straight away, but then again the list would be rendered pointless if an eliminator died at the start of the game who was on the list.) Highprince of J.A. Easy fix for this one: the judges are selected randomly. Party Invitation This one appears to be too powerful for a Common but too weak for a Rare. How about if I promoted it to Rare but allowed you to choose two different people (on the same night) to roleblock? Edited July 24, 2016 by Ecthelion III 1
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