nervousnerd Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 So, from what I have previously read here in regards to Sixth of the Dusk, it seems like The Ones Above are thought to be from Scadrial, correct? It does make some sense because they have similar technology to what we have seen with Southerners and they are on the only planet that we know is approaching interstellar travel at the moment. I do wonder if there are any WoBs or other information that I haven't seen to confirm this though. Quote “What is that?” Dusk asked, nodding to the thing she took from her pocket. It rested in her palm like the shell of a clam, but had a mirrorlike face on the top. “It is a machine,” she said. “Like a clock, only it never needs to be wound, and it . . . shows things.” “What things?” “Well, it translates languages. Ours into that of the Ones Above. It also . . . shows the locations of Aviar.” “What?” “It’s like a map,” she said. “It points the way to Aviar.” Another question I have is this: In what way do the 'machines' work using what we know of the metallic arts? I mean maybe bronze could be used to sense more than just Allomancy and that could probably work for detecting Aviar, I suppose (It wasn't actually described how the smaller machine "shows things" to the user). The translation function confuses me though. In Bands we saw translation using connection worked in the opposite method. Connection attaches a person to the attributes of the place they are in. It is only really useful for visitors. How could Vathi use it to read a language from another world? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, nervousnerd said: So, from what I have previously read here in regards to Sixth of the Dusk, it seems like The Ones Above are thought to be from Scadrial, correct? It does make some sense because they have similar technology to what we have seen with Southerners and they are on the only planet that we know is approaching interstellar travel at the moment. I do wonder if there are any WoBs or other information that I haven't seen to confirm this though. Another question I have is this: In what way do the 'machines' work using what we know of the metallic arts? I mean maybe bronze could be used to sense more than just Allomancy and that could probably work for detecting Aviar, I suppose (It wasn't actually described how the smaller machine "shows things" to the user). The translation function confuses me though. In Bands we saw translation using connection worked in the opposite method. Connection attaches a person to the attributes of the place they are in. It is only really useful for visitors. How could Vathi use it to read a language from another world? Any thoughts? WoB has stated that we have seen them before, but nothing else has been confirmed. However, the tentative timeline puts Sixth of the Dusk at around the same place as Era 4 Mistborn, which supports the opinion that it they are Scandrians. Regarding how the machines work, it does make sense that it is somehow mechanically applying bronze allomancy and duralumin feruchemy. While it is true that in BoM that Connection could only translate to the spiritual identity of the region the medallion was used in, it's possible that in the far future variations have been made, perhaps where the connection is used to connect to a specific spiritual identity, so translating to the same language all the time instead of whatever is local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Brandon has said we may see Dust as a worldhopper cameo and that he has had Herdazian cuisine. A Dusk worldhopper cameo supports Scadrial because Mistborn Era 4 is the only Sci-Fi Cosmere series we know of so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasarr Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 The translation could also be the work of regular, Earth-style technology. We're pretty close to create an universal tranlator IRL without access to Connection fiddling, so perhaps Vathi's machine combines Allomantic bronze with regular computer tech? Computer that has tiny A. Bronze "medallion" (allomantic microprocessor? ) as one of its components, maybe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 I suppose not everything needs to be magical. The printing mechanism on the larger machine does sound more like something mechanical so perhaps both are like that. The never needs to be wound comment could be interesting as well but it may just mean that they haven't used any of the machines to deplete their reserves and therefore do not see any known mechanism of powering them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 I know everyone seems to support the Scadrians as the Ones Above, but what society is actively working on technological devices that run off Investiture? That's right, Roshar is. Brandon has suggested that fabrials represent a "magic system". We also know that Roshar's theology has an intense interest in worlds beyond their own planet, giving them incentive to explore the universe. I wonder if it is possible that the machines are powered by fabrials rather than using bronze from Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 27 minutes ago, Brgst13 said: I know everyone seems to support the Scadrians as the Ones Above, but what society is actively working on technological devices that run off Investiture? That's right, Roshar is. Brandon has suggested that fabrials represent a "magic system". We also know that Roshar's theology has an intense interest in worlds beyond their own planet, giving them incentive to explore the universe. I wonder if it is possible that the machines are powered by fabrials rather than using bronze from Scadrial. This is true. However, since it is known that Mistborn Era 4 will be a space opera with FTL, it is still seen as more likely that it is Scadrians who are the Ones Above. Also, Scadrians, at least Southern Scadrians, and soon to be the ones in the Basin, are also working on technology which runs off of investiture, so you can't discount them for that reason. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brgst13 Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 I agree that the Scadrians are the most likely suspects, I was just trying to present an alternative. I have this sneaking suspicion that Brandon sees us all assuming that the Ones Above are Scadrian and snickering as he pens the future. Also, I was slightly drunk and forgot about southern Scadrial and their technology. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 I wonder, if the Ones Above are related more to Roshar than to Scadrial, if the resulting Desolation we're about to encounter in the Stormlight Archive will send Rosharians into space, seeking a new home or possibly weapons to combat Odium. Seeking out Investiture and magic makes sense, and since we know some of the magic allows Radiants to mess with the power of gravity, FTL travel may be possible with surgebinding/fabrials that we just haven't seen yet. The Rosharians are bound to leave Roshar anyways - Odium is looming on Braize, a planet that they can see in the sky. Whether that's through space travel or through the Cognitive Realm, I see our heroes taking the fight to Odium's home at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 I agree that it would probably be possible for other people than those on Scandrial to reach FTL, but in the case of Roshar I was thinking more along the lines of a Transportation Surge based Hyperdrive, that transports the ship into the Cognitive Realm, so they only have to travel an extremely short distance to get to another place star system, where they can just jump back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 52 minutes ago, VirtuousTraveller said: Radiants to mess with the power of gravity, FTL travel may be possible with Surgebinding/Fabrials that we just haven't seen yet. 47 minutes ago, kenod said: Roshar I was thinking more along the lines of a Transportation Surge based Hyperdrive, that transports the ship into the Cognitive Realm, On the assumption that Fabrials/Radiant powers work in the Cognitive Realm, why not use Gravitation to speed progress along while in the Cognitive? That might actually be the closest they can get to FTL. I wonder if air resistance is a thing in the Cognitive... might limit the choice of building materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 Let's not forget about that non-interventionist policy the Ones Above have. How well does that fit Roshar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 2 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said: Whether that's through space travel or through the Cognitive Realm, I see our heroes taking the fight to Odium's home at some point. I do believe there's a WoB that we'll get scenes on Braize in the back half of Stormlight. That said, I don't see the Ones Above fitting as Rosharans. If they're purely from one planet, Scadrial makes by far the most sense...but it could also be a worldhopping organization (perhaps the Seventeenth, considering the hands-off approach they're taking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 I don't know, Sel could arguably make sense too in terms of using magitech, which, other than building spaceships, is all we know about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Could they be related to the Ire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 Maybe. The Ire is the only other group from a single planet that we have seen travel outside of their own. That is an interesting question though in that it raises this one to me: What group from Scadrial would do this to First of the Sun? It is unlikely to be the Set because the Ones Above do appear to have rules and don't just take what they want (even if they skirt those rules to get what they want in the end). Are all of the people of Scadrial going to end up working towards the same goal or will their be factions that work against each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 6 hours ago, nervousnerd said: What group from Scadrial would do this to First of the Sun? It is unlikely to be the Set because the Ones Above do appear to have rules and don't just take what they want (even if they skirt those rules to get what they want in the end). Are all of the people of Scadrial going to end up working towards the same goal or will their be factions that work against each other? Maybe First of the Sun is simply near Scadrial (also if I thought that Therenody was near of Scadrial) and when they began to travel in space. It would be one of the first planet they interact (this may be answered quite fast when Arcanum Unbound will be released) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Sel and Threnody are in the same solar system. I'm not sure where Scadrial and First of the Sun are in location to them or Roshar. As you said, we will find out soon enough when the official map gets published. Edited September 21, 2016 by nervousnerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, nervousnerd said: Sel and Threnody are in the same solar system. I'm not sure where Scadrial and First of the Sun are in location to them or Roshar. As you said, we will find out soon enough when the official map gets published. Sel and Threnody proximity is a false information born from a WoB misunderstood....There are a couple of topic about and Peter himself reply to say that it's wrong EDIT: PS: I saw this wrong WoB is still on Theoryland....I think it's better to remove it Edited September 21, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 Did not see that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 The implication is there that Sel, Threnody, and Scadrial are near each other. Arcanum Unbounded is supposed to have a CR starmap in it, so we should have a better idea who's near what. It will be an in-world map, so it may not be 100% accurate. We also do not know how time will be handled -- e.g. will a Sixth of the Dusk era Kriss be writing each planet entry, or just First of the Sun's? Or will it be Khriss from what's "current" -- i.e. Wax and Wayne + SA? I also do not think anyone has ever asked if the Ones Above had to use FTL to get to First of the Sun. So it could be local to the some solar system e.g. Scadrial is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Argel said: The implication is there that Sel, Threnody, and Scadrial are near each other. Arcanum Unbounded is supposed to have a CR starmap in it, so we should have a better idea who's near what. It will be an in-world map, so it may not be 100% accurate. We also do not know how time will be handled -- e.g. will a Sixth of the Dusk era Kriss be writing each planet entry, or just First of the Sun's? Or will it be Khriss from what's "current" -- i.e. Wax and Wayne + SA? I also do not think anyone has ever asked if the Ones Above had to use FTL to get to First of the Sun. So it could be local to the some solar system e.g. Scadrial is in. I don't think there's been an implication that Sel is close to Threnody/Scadrial. We've seen that Roshar should be relatively close by, based on the star pattern that can be seen from all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 36 minutes ago, BeskarKomrk said: I don't think there's been an implication that Sel is close to Threnody/Scadrial. We've seen that Roshar should be relatively close by, based on the star pattern that can be seen from all three. The fact that the Ire immediately assume that Kelsier might be a shade does imply proximity between Threnody and Scadrial. And the cosmere is a dwarf galaxy...that star pattern is visible from most places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeskarKomrk Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 minute ago, PallonianFire said: The fact that the Ire immediately assume that Kelsier might be a shade does imply proximity between Threnody and Scadrial. And the cosmere is a dwarf galaxy...that star pattern is visible from most places. That's fair, I forgot about M:SH. That does imply to me that Threnody and Scadrial are close, but it doesn't really address whether Sel is close by or not. Also, dwarf galaxies can be fairly large (dwarf is a description of the # of stars, not the radius of the galaxy), potentially even thousands of light years across, at least from my vague knowledge and a few minutes of research on wikipedia. Constellations would definitely look different to people on other ends of those distances, so having similar constellations does imply that they're maybe within 50-100 light years of each other (again based on a quick google search). I also never thought about whether they would be far enough apart that they would see different colors of stars based on redshift until now, but as I was thinking about it I realized that we don't even have a way of confirming that the Cosmere universe is expanding like ours (and therefore that stars would even have redshift related to their distance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 I know this is completely unfounded, but don't you think Brandon will make most of the cosmere worlds spacefareing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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