The Ones Above

[Spoolofwhool]

8 minutes ago, Isaac said:

I know this is completely unfounded, but don't you think Brandon will make most of the cosmere worlds spacefareing?

You mean, most of the major shardworlds only? Possibly. However, it is confirmed that SA will be mostly self-contained and not consist of much reliance on Cosmere so I think it is unlikely that Rosharans will be spacefaring in SA. If Rosharans do achieve space travel, it will only be see as an aside from another serie's POV. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Even if he doesn't specifically make them spacefaring, that doesn't mean he hasn't considered ideas on how to let them do it. I'd wait until we understand some of the magic systems better to ask him about that of course.

[Darkness he/him]

I think the ease of access to the Cognitive realm will be a major retardant to space travel for many cultures. Historically, if a means already exists to do something, it takes longer for people to think of another way to do it, because there is no need. For example, because people on Roshar can already (almost certainly) worldhop through elsecalling/Shadesmar, there would be a decreased impetus to develop travel through the Physical Realm. Scadrial doesn't seem to have (after destruction of the pits) an easy way of worldhopping, so space travel is more necessary. Especially since Harmony is hint dropping about other planets all over the place.

Re: The IRE... Seeing as how they are Elantrians, can instantly travel known distances, and seem to be fairly comfortable in using the Cognitive Realm, I don't know that they would need to develop space travel all that much. They would simply travel by the means they already have. "The Ones Above", definitely seem to have arrived in a space vessel of some sort (though I do have to double-check that... it might be that they simply pointed vaguely to the stars and said, "we're from up there...".

[Yata he/him]

This is indeed true @Darkness I imagine that the popolation who firs discover how to leave their planet without using other Realm would be the popolation with more issues to worldhop. People with a little of ambiental Investiture or where the Worldhop is harder.

[Argel he/him]

I think you are overlooking all the people without access to magic. They have incentives to compensate with technology. Which we see on Scadrial, more so in the southern hemisphere, but even in the north (e.g. trains). Merchants and trade can alos drive the technology. And of course in the north, the outer cities want to be independent of Luthadel. As long as the ones with magic do not oppress the ones without, technology can still advance. Also, on Scadrial, the ability to have these "power batteries" is opening up all sorts of possibilities. 

Roshar is too stuck in the feudal era, plus the devastations seem to set back civilization. Plus the fabrials are a mega crutch. Sel almsot has it too easy, beyond being stuck their locally, so they have fewer incentives. Scadrial is clearly headed towards combining magic and technology, and being a freer, more enterprising/mercantile system, has incentives to make use of it. We don't really see anyone that thinks these new inventions are terrible, abnormal, etc. beyond maybe griping about it. It doesn't hurt that Harmony is a spiritual guide/teacher. 

Edit: Also, we know TLR held society back, so now that he's gone, there may be a desire to catch-up, so to speak. Suddenly inventors that had to hide from TLR can now operate out in the open. That's a huge change, and it's hard for me to imagine Sazed wanting to suppress that.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Argel

[Ari he/him]

On 21/09/2016 at 1:10 PM, nervousnerd said:

Maybe. The Ire is the only other group from a single planet that we have seen travel outside of their own. That is an interesting question though in that it raises this one to me:
What group from Scadrial would do this to First of the Sun? It is unlikely to be the Set because the Ones Above do appear to have rules and don't just take what they want (even if they skirt those rules to get what they want in the end). Are all of the people of Scadrial going to end up working towards the same goal or will their be factions that work against each other?

You're assuming that groups from Era 2 will last to Era 4. Given that many notable political groups from Era 1 are outright gone in Era 2, (such as nobles, skaa, and obligators) it seems reasonable to assume that the Set might not make it to Era 4.

On 22/09/2016 at 4:38 AM, PallonianFire said:

The fact that the Ire immediately assume that Kelsier might be a shade does imply proximity between Threnody and Scadrial. And the cosmere is a dwarf galaxy...that star pattern is visible from most places.

If you pay close attention, they also seem somewhat alarmed at the possibility of a Threnodite making it all the way to Scadrial. So that suggests that Threnody is closer (cognitively, at least) to Sel than to Scadrial, and that Scadrial is traditionally out of the range an Elantrian would have seen a cognitive shadow from Threnody.

13 hours ago, Argel said:

I think you are overlooking all the people without access to magic. They have incentives to compensate with technology. Which we see on Scadrial, more so in the southern hemisphere, but even in the north (e.g. trains). Merchants and trade can alos drive the technology. And of course in the north, the outer cities want to be independent of Luthadel. As long as the ones with magic do not oppress the ones without, technology can still advance. Also, on Scadrial, the ability to have these "power batteries" is opening up all sorts of possibilities. 

Roshar is too stuck in the feudal era, plus the devastations seem to set back civilization. Plus the fabrials are a mega crutch. Sel almsot has it too easy, beyond being stuck their locally, so they have fewer incentives. Scadrial is clearly headed towards combining magic and technology, and being a freer, more enterprising/mercantile system, has incentives to make use of it. We don't really see anyone that thinks these new inventions are terrible, abnormal, etc. beyond maybe griping about it. It doesn't hurt that Harmony is a spiritual guide/teacher. 

Edit: Also, we know TLR held society back, so now that he's gone, there may be a desire to catch-up, so to speak. Suddenly inventors that had to hide from TLR can now operate out in the open. That's a huge change, and it's hard for me to imagine Sazed wanting to suppress that.

Yeah, if it's easier to move large groups of mundanes through magitech spaceships than it is to ferry them between Perpendicularities, then spaceships will become practical once the Cosmere and the necessary magical and/or scientific principles become common knowledge. That said, Era 2 has made clear that northern Scadrial is still being held back, and Sazed suspects this was because he was too nice in setting up northern Scadrian society post catacendre.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Ari

[nervousnerd he/him]

3 hours ago, Ari said:

You're assuming that groups from Era 2 will last to Era 4. Given that many notable political groups from Era 1 are outright gone in Era 2, (such as nobles, skaa, and obligators) it seems reasonable to assume that the Set might not make it to Era 4.

I agree mostly. I wasn't really thinking about Era 4 when I considered it. I was mainly thinking of the exploitative groups that we have met and they were the first who came to mind and also the first I dismissed. I do agree that it is unlikely that they will make it to even the third era because if they do then the ending to Era 2 would be kind of anticlimactic. At the same time, I think it unlikely we will experience the same type of world ending event that happened in Era 1 to wipe out or completely alter so many groups.

On 9/21/2016 at 3:35 PM, Spoolofwhool said:

You mean, most of the major shardworlds only? Possibly. However, it is confirmed that SA will be mostly self-contained and not consist of much reliance on Cosmere so I think it is unlikely that Rosharans will be spacefaring in SA. If Rosharans do achieve space travel, it will only be see as an aside from another serie's POV. 

I think Brandon has also mentioned that different planets are developing at different rates and that is how he wants it. He doesn't want a universe of equal planets meeting each other (eventually). This is why the Ones Above are so intriguing. I find it unlikely Roshar or any other planet with a hostile shard around will ever really care about the rest of the cosmere until they solve their own problems. Harmony has allowed the planet a fair amount of peace and quiet to develop.

It may be that Scadrial and Sel are meant to give us those two opposing types of interplanetary travel. I do worry that the splintering may make this more difficult for Sel to be effectively involved in this space race though.