Perpendicularities

[Djarskublar]

What are they? I've read a couple WoB about them, but I don't know where the term came from, or how we knew to ask about them. Is it a Secret History thing? I'm waiting for the compilation, and don't have easy access to a copy. I don't really know any hardcore sanderfans to borrow a copy.

I know there is the one natural one, that shardpools appear to qualify, and that they provide easier access to the CR. Nothing else really.

[Blightsong]

Perpendicularities are massive pools of a shard's investiture that presumably occur naturally. We first started asking about them before we knew what they were called, and eventually learned that the well of Ascension and the pool from Elantris were both what we deemed "Shardpools". It's wasn't until SA that we learned that they are called "Perpendicularities". We learned via WoB that massive amount of investiture (I.e. Perpendicularities) can "spike" from one realm to another, and that a person who knows how can use this to go from one realm to another (and that then walking from one planet to another once you are in the cognitive realm is the most common method of world hopping). Besides that I'm not sure we know much more about them.

[Eki]

2 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

Perpendicularities are massive pools of a shard's investiture that presumably occur naturally. We first started asking about them before we knew what they were called, and eventually learned that the well of Ascension and the pool from Elantris were both what we deemed "Shardpools". It's wasn't until SA that we learned that they are called "Perpendicularities". We learned via WoB that massive amount of investiture (I.e. Perpendicularities) can "spike" from one realm to another, and that a person who knows how can use this to go from one realm to another (and that then walking from one planet to another once you are in the cognitive realm is the most common method of world hopping). Besides that I'm not sure we know much more about them.

Actually, I think (though I'm not sure) that the "spiking" between realms is the definition of a perpendicularity, not the massive collection of investiture. As far as I know, large amounts of investiture is the only type of perpendicularity we've actually seen, but we don't know for sure if there are any other kinds.

[Blightsong]

Just now, Eki said:

Actually, I think (though I'm not sure) that the "spiking" between realms is the definition of a perpendicularity, not the massive collection of investiture. As far as I know, large amounts of investiture is the only type of perpendicularity we've actually seen, but we don't know for sure if there are any other kinds.

Here is my source for this (I was actually a part of this conversation), this WoB being one of is not the only mention of the actual mechanics of a Perpendicularity. The SH quote he mentions here is this: 

Spoiler

"Destroying the pits, O scarred one. That was the only Perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access. This one is very dangerous, growing more so by the minute... By doing so you basically ended traffic through Scadrial." We know that the Pits contained Ruin's Shardpool, and we know that there are many things on Scadrial that work by spiking (litteraly, as I am talking about Hemallurgic spikes) through the realms, so we can deduce from this quote by Hoid and the WoB that Shardpools and Perpendicularities are pretty much interchangeable. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure Shardpool is just what we called Perpendicularities before we knew what the canon term was for them.

 

[Djarskublar]

Well that WoB implies (very heavily) that the massive collection was what caused the spiking, so technically not the same thing, but effectively the same since the one is the cause of the other. Thanks for answering.

[Blightsong]

31 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Well that WoB implies (very heavily) that the massive collection was what caused the spiking, so technically not the same thing, but effectively the same since the one is the cause of the other. Thanks for answering.

The massive collection is what caused the spiking, I don't think I ever implied differently. This is an effect of investiture as a whole, and Hemallurgy does this by keying into Ruin's investiture. This is also (I theorize) how a physical object (steel) can be made to damage other realms (I.e. Nightblood).

[Voidus]

2 hours ago, Blightsong said:

Here is my source for this (I was actually a part of this conversation), this WoB being one of is not the only mention of the actual mechanics of a Perpendicularity. The SH quote he mentions here is this: 

  Hide contents

"Destroying the pits, O scarred one. That was the only Perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access. This one is very dangerous, growing more so by the minute... By doing so you basically ended traffic through Scadrial." We know that the Pits contained Ruin's Shardpool, and we know that there are many things on Scadrial that work by spiking (litteraly, as I am talking about Hemallurgic spikes) through the realms, so we can deduce from this quote by Hoid and the WoB that Shardpools and Perpendicularities are pretty much interchangeable. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure Shardpool is just what we called Perpendicularities before we knew what the canon term was for them.

 

This would heavily imply that Shardpools are perpendicularities but that doesn't necessarily mean that all perpendicularities are Shardpools.

[Blightsong]

4 minutes ago, Voidus said:

This would heavily imply that Shardpools are perpendicularities but that doesn't necessarily mean that all perpendicularities are Shardpools.

It also heavily implies that the only Perpendicularitues on Scadrial are Shardpools. I find it extremely unlikely that a Shardworld as heavily invested as Scadrial is would only have two Perpendicularities if it were possible for more.

 

There is simply much more evidence pointing towards Perpendicularities being only tied to Shards. If you guys have information on the contrary then feel free to link it, but ive never seen anything that has said otherwise.

[Oversleep]

17 hours ago, Blightsong said:

I find it extremely unlikely that a Shardworld as heavily invested as Scadrial

Scadrial is not one of the heavily Invested worlds. IIRC Roshar is one of them.

[Blightsong]

51 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Scadrial is not one of the heavily Invested worlds. IIRC Roshar is one of them.

I would say that Scadrial is only second to Roshar. More magic systems and users than almost any other planet, huge collections of gaseous investiture that spans across an entire continent at least (Brandon has actually compared the mists to Highstorms).

 

The only other planet that might be similarly invested is Sel, but we don't really know enough about Sel as a whole to call it.

[Eki]

22 hours ago, Blightsong said:

Here is my source for this (I was actually a part of this conversation), this WoB being one of is not the only mention of the actual mechanics of a Perpendicularity. The SH quote he mentions here is this: 

  Reveal hidden contents

"Destroying the pits, O scarred one. That was the only Perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access. This one is very dangerous, growing more so by the minute... By doing so you basically ended traffic through Scadrial." We know that the Pits contained Ruin's Shardpool, and we know that there are many things on Scadrial that work by spiking (litteraly, as I am talking about Hemallurgic spikes) through the realms, so we can deduce from this quote by Hoid and the WoB that Shardpools and Perpendicularities are pretty much interchangeable. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure Shardpool is just what we called Perpendicularities before we knew what the canon term was for them.

 

Regardless of if huge concentrations of investiture are the only ways to create a Perpendicularity or not, it would be the connection between the Realms that would be the defining feature of it.

[Blightsong]

1 hour ago, Eki said:

Regardless of if huge concentrations of investiture are the only ways to create a Perpendicularity or not, it would be the connection between the Realms that would be the defining feature of it.

A defining feature of investiture is that it gives those connections between the realms, that's why Shardpools do what they do in the first place. That's why heavily invested physical objects can effect the other realms.

[Oversleep]

3 hours ago, Blightsong said:

I would say that Scadrial is only second to Roshar. More magic systems and users than almost any other planet, huge collections of gaseous investiture that spans across an entire continent at least (Brandon has actually compared the mists to Highstorms).

 

The only other planet that might be similarly invested is Sel, but we don't really know enough about Sel as a whole to call it.

I found the WoB:

Quote

The amount of investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon.
source

 

[Blightsong]

43 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I found the WoB:

 

I guess improven wrong.

 

Something else to note in my favor is that when Jasnah gets trapped in the Cognitive realm her spren notes that the closest "junction" is "Honor's Perpendicularity" if she want to escape. I would suggest that junctiona are these places where one can transition, while a perpendicularity is a shardpool.

[Spoolofwhool]

12 hours ago, Blightsong said:

I guess improven wrong.

Spoiler for SA 3

Spoiler

Something else to note in my favor is that when Jasnah gets trapped in the Cognitive realm her spren notes that the closest "junction" is "Honor's Perpendicularity" if she want to escape. I would suggest that junctiona are these places where one can transition, while a perpendicularity is a shardpool.

Is this Secret History or something else?

Edited August 26, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Ari]

3 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Is this Secret History or something else?

It's a "deleted scene" from WoR that gives us a little idea of what Jasnah got up to during the time we didn't see her near the beginning of the story.

[Argel]

No, it's a teaser for SA3, and should be in spoiler tags because of that. 

[WeiryWriter]

On 8/26/2016 at 11:13 AM, Argel said:

No, it's a teaser for SA3, and should be in spoiler tags because of that. 

Technically it is not a teaser for SA3, when last asked about it Brandon said that he needed to write out Jasnah's adventures in Shadesmar (which is roughly novella-length) to work things out for her character going forward but he has no plans on releasing that anytime soon, if ever, for a variety of reasons (which he did not share). So yes it should probably be in spoiler tags, but not for the reason you say. (It's also not a "deleted scene" since it was written after WoR was released.)

[jtburrup]

I just wanted to add that the "Sacred hot springs" where Rock met a God is also a perpendicularity (most likely meeting Hoid), and also a shardpool and world-hopper is mentioned in one of the newspaper excerpts in BoM (I think it was BoM....it might have been SoS, I don't quite remember and don't have the books with me to double check). I don't know how this necessarily adds to the conversation or not, but I thought it was important to mention that we HAVE seen other perpendicularities.  

[Jondesu]

@jtburrup, the hot springs are a Shardpool (we simply don't know if they're Honor or Cultivation's), which I think has been confirmed by WoB, though I'm not certain. The one from the SoS broadsheet isn't a Shardpool or a worldhopper; Brandon has confirmed that was a Southern Scadrian instead, but described similarly to a Voidbringer to mess with us, basically.

jW

[Eki]

9 hours ago, Jondesu said:

@jtburrup, the hot springs are a Shardpool (we simply don't know if they're Honor or Cultivation's), which I think has been confirmed by WoB, though I'm not certain. The one from the SoS broadsheet isn't a Shardpool or a worldhopper; Brandon has confirmed that was a Southern Scadrian instead, but described similarly to a Voidbringer to mess with us, basically.

jW

Has the pool from SoS really been confirmed not to be a shardpool? And has the Southern Scadrian been confirmed not to be a worldhopper?

[Jondesu]

2 hours ago, Eki said:

Has the pool from SoS really been confirmed not to be a shardpool? And has the Southern Scadrian been confirmed not to be a worldhopper?

I'm 99% positive I've seen the WoB, though I'm apparently terrible at searching for WoBs, so I can't find it now.  Maybe someone better at tracking those will know where it is.

jW