Long Game 25: A Breath of Power

[Magestar he/him]

22 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

First, is Magestar's defense of himself, primarily yesterday but also today, in which he made several fairly emotive posts, expressing frustration and sadness at being voted on.  This strikes me as eliminatory, in that emotive posts are much easier to get people to empathise with one with, thus require less potentially flawed logic from an eliminator to explain something.

I know I keep saying this, but... What!?  I look like an eliminator because I seem emotional?!  Where do you guys get this stuff?  Of course I'm slightly emotional.  I am a villager being wrongly accused, and I am defending myself.  I will agree I have made a few fairly emotive posts, but I would say mostly today, because I am starting to get frustrated with how you guys are doing this.  You are claiming I seem like an Elim for defending myself.  I just don't get that.  I can at least respect Araris a bit because he is backing his words with a vote, and going about it in a fairly sensible way.  But you won't put a vote on me, and I just don't get your reasoning.   I feel like I'm in a position where I am constantly cursed if I do, cursed if I don't.

22 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Second, I'll like @Magestar to provide some more reasoning for his vote on Mark, which occurred in his first post after Meta's accusation of Mark.  He provides no reasoning of his own for this, simply stating that he found Mark also suspicious and that Mark was a likely target (I'm not quite sure I understand this last bit, clarification would be nice).  It seems a bit like bandwagoning to me, thus why I'd like to see some clarifications and further explanation from Magestar.

This, I like a bit better.  Ok, I'll do that.  First, as I put in my initial suspicions post, I have a bit of a bad gut read on Mark, and he was in the same category of readings as Frozen, which I explained earlier.  The post said something to the effect of my feeling like a few people were being told to jump on me, from a doc, without real reasoning.  This feeling was enhanced by some things Frozen has said.  When Frozen defended herself, I switched to Mark, which was coincidentally right after Meta posted.  I actually didn't read Meta's post until later. (His posts are so long.)  I have not taken it off because... I have not felt like it would do anything.

I did not vote for him in the same post.  Plus, I was just making a remark that I sympathize, and just don't know.  I think I can't stop anyone from lynching him, and don't feel like removing my vote.  I have equal reason to believe he is a Villager as I do to believe he is an Elim.

Also, I am pretty sure you are mistaking length for vehemence as far as my defenses go.  

31 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

 

I guess I will.

edit; Shoot.  Just realized something.

21 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

I would say a generic villagery post is "For me to win, we need to team up and share information, which is going to be hard to do." (Not a reference to a specific post)

I said that.   Well, I guess I can see where you are coming from.  Mostly, I was expressing my frustration that I have good ideas, but can't post them to the thread without alerting Elims.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Magestar

[AliasSheep]

6 minutes ago, Magestar said:

 But you won't put a vote on me, and I just don't get your reasoning.

I was waiting for your response to my second questions.  I don't like voting if I'm not sure of it.

And I'm not actually going to given your response.

57 minutes ago, Magestar said:

 When Frozen defended herself, I switched to Mark, which was coincidentally right after Meta posted.

Ah.  Because nothing was quoted, I misinterpreted that post.

 

59 minutes ago, Magestar said:

I have equal reason to believe he is a Villager as I do to believe he is an Elim.

Those wouldn't be odds that I would go on, but fair enough.

 

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

Also, I am pretty sure you are mistaking length for vehemence as far as my defenses go.  

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

[Magestar he/him]

13 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

That was a response to another post or so, from different threads, which was not meant to go there.  Sorry.  Someone else used the word Vehement to describe a post, and I got confused.  You were saying I was emotive in my posts, they were saying vehement, I think, and I mixed the two up.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@The Young Bard: Please clarify how I defended Ecth, and how in turn that makes me a really poor eliminator. 

Edit: I guess we are lynching Mark then. Although there are enough people that haven't spoken up for us to kill practically anybody at this point. Maybe that will change in the last 6 hours?

Edited August 25, 2016 by Araris Valerian
No reason to double-post

[Dalinar Kholin]

Well, I think it's time to make a couple of comments, though my knowledge is limited and feel free to both fact check and give me some pointers in my analysis. First off, sorry for taking so long to reply, but between business and trying to comprehend my first game without blundering into the middle of everything was rather tricky.

1st Premise: Sheep and Araris are not at odds. I went back through all of their posts from today (and read the ones from the last lynch as well), and never found a post where they refuted or disagreed with on another persons claim. sheep said

7 hours ago, AliasSheep said:

I haven't actually accused Magestar yet, I was just explaining Araris' point to him, though I acknowledge that could be read as me agreeing with Araris.  I don't actually, a few of Mage's posts have seemed quite eliminatory to me, and few generic.  If anything, I'm going to accuse him now.  I have a few things I want to comment on.

First, is Magestar's defense of himself, primarily yesterday but also today, in which he made several fairly emotive posts, expressing frustration and sadness at being voted on.  This strikes me as eliminatory, in that emotive posts are much easier to get people to empathise with one with, thus require less potentially flawed logic from an eliminator to explain something.

Second, I'll like @Magestar to provide some more reasoning for his vote on Mark, which occurred in his first post after Meta's accusation of Mark.  He provides no reasoning of his own for this, simply stating that he found Mark also suspicious and that Mark was a likely target (I'm not quite sure I understand this last bit, clarification would be nice).  It seems a bit like bandwagoning to me, thus why I'd like to see some clarifications and further explanation from Magestar.

And finally, in his last post, Magestar says he sympathises with Mark's position and says he can't actually tell whether Mark is an elim or not.  I'm not quite certain why he would say this and vote for Mark, so perhaps he could explain that as well.

 

Specifically, look at him defending himself as NOT allied with Araris. Despite this, Sheep has spent the majority of his points pointing suspicion at Magestar (refering to early comments about "villagerianess,"), who according Luckat Araris is currently voting for. Essentially, they haven't colluded, and in many ways have almost specifically backed off from the idea that they are working together. If anything, this desire to not be seen as colluding makes me be suspicious, especially when Araris made no response to the idea of them working together. Essentially, the purposeful lack of evidence makes me suspicious when they generally seem to agree.

2nd Premise: Sheep defends Mark with that seem quote (against which people seem to have some legitimate concerns, though I'm not positive, I will vote for Mark IV).

Conclusions: However, if Mark IS returned, we should watch out for Araris and Sheep. However, if he is not, it would make me very suspicious of Magestar, who has already been suspicious and jumped on the Mark train. 

I was having a little trouble navigating and quoting past forums so there are some holes that I might try to fill in with later posts. Please help me correct my logic if I'm missing conversations and info! 

P:S Would not all the villagers want the amount of overall pool of breath to be reduced over time because the Returned consume breathe? Or is the rate of consumption so minimal it doesn;t make an important difference?

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Dalinar Kholin

[Frozen Mint she/her]

2 hours ago, Dalinar Kholin said:

P:S Would not all the villagers want the amount of overall pool of breath to be reduced over time because the Returned consume breathe? Or is the rate of consumption so minimal it doesn;t make an important difference?

Er, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. I might be reading your comment wrong.

I think villagers would want more breath (for themselves, of course). More breath means more options for awakening. If you invest a lot of breath in awakening, then you have more useful objects plus if the Returned do steal your breath, they'll only get the breath you currently hold, which doesn't include the breath you've invested in awakening.

 

Some considerations:

I wasn't going to share these, since I'm not ready to accuse anyone yet, but I figured that it's better to have my thoughts out in the open where everyone can discuss them and people can defend themselves.

First, there's Bard. I keep thinking of his plan on day one. It's very possible that he was just trying to help the village, but it's also possible that he posted that plan knowing that it had holes which could benefit the eliminators. He seems to be a very experienced player, and the holes in his plan were pretty big. Just a slight concern, but a concern nonetheless. I'll admit that this is bordering on a reach though.

 

Conq jumped on Ecth very quickly. Ecth could be a Potential Returned, but it's just as likely that he won the lottery. It wouldn't have been a big deal if Conq didn't place a vote, but he did. So I suggest we keep an eye on him. The weird thing is that I would've thought an eliminator would try to be more convincing when framing someone, being more careful so as to not be thought of as just trying to kill people off. Was Conq framing someone he knew was innocent? It's a possibility to keep in mind. Then there's this:

Quote

Bard, your plan might work with some tweaks and let us not forget the breath lottery as well. If Ecth is telling the truth, we are in a huge amount of trouble. We could have someone get the breath scanner and find people with large amounts of breath, then lynch them. The idea is that the returned will probably have more breaths than villagers, eventually.

1) I would assume the Returned would awaken objects, probably a lifeless rabbit if they have loads of breath, so a breath scanner wouldn't work. Could Conq have been trying to get villagers to waste their night actions on a strategy that isn't the best?

2) As Sheep pointed out, "eventually" is a problem here. Using this strategy could buy the elims some time until it's too late for the village.

A mistake? Intentional misleading??

 

I think Ecth is innocent. His confusion about knowing whether one is a Potential Return struck me as genuine. He could have been faking that, but my gut says he wasn't.

 

I'm on the fence about Mark's defense. It does feel a tad... accommodating?

There's this:

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

So, my gut acted up. But, my gut feeling is almost always wrong. So, I was trying not to let that cloud my judgement. I agree to take full credit if and when you die by my vote. Or by an action I did.

But mostly this:

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

I guess I can't really defend that very much. I'm not sure what I was thinking in wording it that way. I guess you could count that as a point against me.

 

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

I'll admit, I committed gamblers fallacy there and that Meta isn't really more likely than usual to be evil though. My bad there.

It's almost like he's trying too hard not to be the bad guy.

But considering all the PM's he's sent around, he seems to be really putting himself out there. In my mind, that's not something an eliminator would do. Can people who've played with Mark before say if he's normally more willing to take risks? Because those PM's (the amount, the open looking for information, the "maybe I have this much breath but I ain't telling you") seem like very risky moves for an eliminator.

 

Lastly, I'm really concerned about how quiet its been. I feel bad saying this, because I haven't exactly been one of the most vocal players. And I know that I'm not the only new player and how intimidating it can be. But it's almost the end of day 2, and it's really hard to analyze posts when there aren't many of them. I keep imagining that some of the Returned are just staying quiet to avoid suspicion while being active in their own doc, seeing as people who speak less are generally being voted on less. I think that we should start calling out the people who don't seem to be contributing by tagging them and voting for them to draw them out. What do you guys think?

[Mark IV he/him]

1 hour ago, Frozen Mint said:

 

I'm on the fence about Mark's defense. It does feel a tad... accommodating?

[....]

It's almost like he's trying too hard not to be the bad guy. I'd have thought I was sounding a but aggressive. But, yeah, those points, I couldn't raise any arguments on so, yeah... accommodative.

But considering all the PM's he's sent around, he seems to be really putting himself out there. In my mind, that's not something an eliminator would do. Can people who've played with Mark before say if he's normally more willing to take risks? Because those PM's (the amount, the open looking for information, the "maybe I have this much breath but I ain't telling you") seem like very risky moves for an eliminator.I haven't played for around two months I guarantee you my playstyle has changed. So, there's no point 'referencing past games'. Oh wait! Why are we even referencing past games? (@ mint - it's basically an unspoken custom to not defend yourself with past games. It happens quite a lot, and then people seem to tunnel onto that person, IMO. So, no one really does it.)

oh. And thank you for not mindlessly voting against me.

 

[Frozen Mint she/her]

1 minute ago, Mark IV said:

1 hour ago, Frozen Mint said:

@ mint - it's basically an unspoken custom to not defend yourself with past games. It happens quite a lot, and then people seem to tunnel onto that person, IMO. So, no one really does it.)

Oh oops. Sorry about that.

[Metacognition he/him]

19 hours ago, luckat said:

Also, I'd be interested in hearing from Meta what the plan to help find the Returned that he shared with Mark was.

It wasn't as good as Mark says it was, IMO. My plan was to get multiple 4 breath strawmen out there and constantly check people looking for fluctuations in Breath. The idea was that we might be able to find the Returned by someone that gets an influx of Breath. Problem is, that didn't take into account the Lottery or reclaiming or anything like that. Plus, it would tie up people's actions with needing to check the same person over and over again. 

That's why I never got around to posting it when I got up. Like Bard's plan, I just felt like it had too many holes in it for it to work and I didn't want to waste our time with a plan that likely wouldn't pan out. 

 

1 hour ago, Frozen Mint said:

Lastly, I'm really concerned about how quiet its been. I feel bad saying this, because I haven't exactly been one of the most vocal players. And I know that I'm not the only new player and how intimidating it can be. But it's almost the end of day 2, and it's really hard to analyze posts when there aren't many of them. I keep imagining that some of the Returned are just staying quiet to avoid suspicion while being active in their own doc, seeing as people who speak less are generally being voted on less. I think that we should start calling out the people who don't seem to be contributing by tagging them and voting for them to draw them out. What do you guys think?

We've talked about this kind of thing in past games and it never seems to work out. If they're really inactive, then they never respond and we don't learn anything. If they're lurking, they typically just pop in to say that they're still alive and that's it. Again, we don't learn much. The lynch is our best tool for finding Eliminators and it feels like a waste to use it on lurkers to most people. 

If someone gets enough breath for a Rabbit though, I definitely think they should start killing off those that aren't talking. Some people find that to be a bit cruel, but if they're not saying anything, they're not helping us either. 

 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Okay. Well, I know this is pretty late in the Day, and I usually make it a point not to change my mind about anything when it gets too close to turnover, but I've been going over the thread and Marks defenses, and I just think we're making a mistake here. Part of the reason I added my vote on Mark was to try and create a bit of discussion, but not much discussion has really come from it. There's been a bunch of votes on him, but no one has really tried to defend him. I realize that sometimes an elim team will just let one of their own be lynched if they're under too much suspicion, but I'm gonna listen to my gut on this one. So, Mark.

The other 3 lynch candidates are not ideal, IMO. I'd personally rather Ecthelion got scanned with a 4-Straw than lynch him right after he survived from the Returned attack. It's a possibility that he's a Returned now, I realize that, but I haven't seen anything from him that indicates he is, so I don't feel comfortable adding my vote on him. The other 2 players with votes on them are Magestar and Araris.

Magestar, I've been leaning village on for a bit. Mostly because his posts genuinely feel frustrated to me. Could be wrong, but that's my opinion at the moment.

That leaves Araris. I feel kinda bad doing this, because I feel like I'm always gunning for him, but I've had somewhat of a gut suspicion of him since pretty early. I'll see if I can find the post I had a bad feeling from once I get this post done. I wanted to get this posted so there's still a bit of time to discuss.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Well, Lopen, if you didn't go after me then it's likely that nobody would. I tend to slip under the radar a bit in these games. And I doubt there is anything to feel bad about, since the level of activity in this game seems too low for the lynch to change targets at this point. And I'm suspicious enough of Mark that I would be fine voting for him to save myself. 

[Doc12 he/him]

I honestly have no concrete suspicions to accuse anyone right now, and i will not vote without having a good, solid reason. I'm not going to just hop on a bandwagon of previous accusations without a solid read of my own, thus I'm abstaining to vote in this cycle. 

 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

4 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Well, Lopen, if you didn't go after me then it's likely that nobody would. I tend to slip under the radar a bit in these games. And I doubt there is anything to feel bad about, since the level of activity in this game seems too low for the lynch to change targets at this point. And I'm suspicious enough of Mark that I would be fine voting for him to save myself. 

Yeah, which I suppose is what makes me suspicious of you at times. The fact that people don't tend to vote on you much or bring you up in discussion, which makes me paranoid that you're an eliminator and your team doesn't want to draw unnecessary attention to you.

To explain a bit more of why I'm suspicious of you right now, I think it's mostly from the fact that we haven't agreed on suspicions hardly at all so far. The post I was talking about that I got a bit of a bad read from was the one where you vote on Bard during the first Day. First off, I've had a village read on Bard for pretty much the whole game, so I didn't like that. Then, the reasoning you gave for your vote wasn't that you disagreed with his plan, but his accusations against you and Bugsy weren't valid. It just seemed like an instance where it would have been better just to explain the rules rather than voting on him, which to me, seemed pointless. So, I guess it seemed kind of over defensive. And yeah, I didn't know if you were around, and I never like to vote on someone without giving them some time to respond and I think I've tried to get you lynched quite a few times in the past.

[Elbereth she/her]

LG25: Night Two - Humming

Darb sat quietly in the town square, humming to himself. He liked humming. It always made him feel safe, for some reason. 

So when a few townspeople walked up to him with murder in their eyes, he just kept humming. 

“Darb,” one said. “You have been accused of consorting with Idrian infiltrators and stealing Hallandren Breath against their owners’ wills. Do you have any defense?”

Darb looked up, then back down again, and just kept humming. A good tune, this one. His mother had sung it to him, he remembered.

“Very well,” another declared. “If you will not defend yourself, then you must truly be a traitor and must die.”

The sword was drawn, and plunged towards Darb’s throat, and he just continued humming. Not much he could do otherwise, was there?

Then, the sword stopped. It just froze in place. Then, all of his attackers’ faces began turning red, as their clothing constricted until they simply collapsed to the ground in a synchronized faint. The one with the sword collapsed atop one of his compatriots, unfortunately, who got a sword across the neck. Alalar, Darb rather thought his name was. 

Darb stared at them for a moment, then shrugged and kept humming. 

---

Araris was lynched! He was a Hallandren Villager!

Night 2 has begun. You have 24 hours to send in your actions.

Araris (2): Lopen, PK
Magestar (1): Araris
Ecthelion (1): Bard

Quicklinks

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Night Zero
Day One
Night One

Player List

1. Luckat (Lularah)

2. Bugsy (Unknown)
3. Araris (Alalar)
4. Assassin in Burgundy (Burganaa)
5. Magestar (Yulis Zorander)
6. The Only Alex
7. Silverblade (Ryth)
8. Conquestor (Lorien)
9. SilverDragon (Jaftar)
10. Mark (Darb)
11. Elodin (Eventeo)
12. Sheep (Kelek)
13. Deathclutch (Asher McClallen)
14. Straw (Pallelae Hominis)
15. Paranoid King (Plathar Ku)
16. Daniyah (Dimsari)
17. Ecthelion (mysterious cloaked figure)
18. Lopen (Talion)
19. Frozen Mint (Shivawn)
20. Dalinar Kholin (Varg)
21. Meta (Cog)
22. Doctor12 (the Healer)
23. Twei (Kolth)
24. Bard (Brick)

[Doc12 he/him]

The Healer fell back, bracing himself on a wall. Yes, he had heard the other villagers voting in madness,  yes,  he had known that one person was going to die today. 

But what had just happened?

Friend Darb. He had been the one who would have died. Four villagers had voted on him, and only two for friend Araris. This doesn't make any sense! 

Before his own eyes he had seen the four villagers heading for Darb strangled by their own clothing. 

Four villagers. 

Four. 

Somehow, four awakeners had banded together to save Friend Darb. Four awakeners had simultaneously decided to save Darb withouta single indication in the day. 

Returned? That would make the most sense. There were rumors that there might  be four Returned. Could it be. That Friend Darb was really one of their own?

The Healer didn't know what to think. And he thought of his own Awakened clothing at home. 

----------------------------------

First off. I'm stunned. I went back immediately and checked the vote counts. Here they are below.

Magestar (1) Araris 

Ecthelion (2) Conquestor, Bard.

Araris (2) Paranoid King. Lopen.

Mark (4) Meta, Magestar, Twei, Dalinar.

What just happened?

I'm pretty sure this could only be the work of Returned. As it wasn't discussed in the posts,  it seems a little too coordinated. Did the Returned just save their own? It seems a little Too obvious. Or were they saving mark to put a target on him? 

And just so you guys know,  yes,  i have awakened clothing. Best to just get that fact out. But I sure as hell didn't have a reason to use it last night. 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Doctor12
Just noticed that Ecthelion also has one vote, Conq's, canceled for him.

[Magestar he/him]

This is just too easy.  Any Returned can do whatever they want, assuming they started with just two or three breath.  They can control the vote to any extent they want with Awakened clothing.

Guys, this game just got very unbalanced, very quickly.  I suggest anyone who can kill, kill Mark tonight.  Also, I suggest that we work together more in the lynches.  I doubt we have more than 4-5 Returned, so we just need to get the lynch vote over 5-6.  

We're toast...

[Conquestor he/him]

Well, the problem is that one person can have more than one awakened cloth.

[Magestar he/him]

Yeah...  We are going to have massive problems with the lynch pretty soon.

[Paranoid King he/him]

If we vote tomorrow, we have to vote only on Mark. The problem is, awakened clothing costs one breath. I think with 8 breath having been stolen on the first night, the eliminators have enough to quench all our votes.

We have only two ways to win. I see no problem with sharing this info because the eliminators have likely discussed it in their doc:

1. Buy awakened rope and roleblock all the eliminators, then lynch them all.
2. Buy lifeless rabbits and kill them all.

Of these plans, I prefer the first, because awakened rope can be thrown around indiscriminately, and it doesn't matter whether you hit a villager or an eliminator.

If we all vote for Mark tomorrow, in order to lynch someone else, the eliminators will need to cancel our votes and vote on someone else, possibly exposing one of their own. If enough of them have been hit by awakened rope, we might be able to lynch him.

But to be honest, at this point, it looks pretty hopeless without the rope. The eliminators can cancel all our eliminator votes if they're not roleblocked, and they can kill one of us each night. If you have enough breath to do so safely, buy rope. If you don't, enter the lottery.

[Magestar he/him]

What Paranoid is saying is probably the only current viable option.  But this means we all have to agree to work together on one person for the day lynch.  We need to make an agreement that the majority vote becomes the only vote.

[Doc12 he/him]

The Returned will have up to eight clothes, I think (seeing as you can only make the actions each cycle) this makes a total of twelve votes (eight swayws votes plus four of their own votes) I'm going on the assumption that there are four, of course.

[Dalinar Kholin]

Either way, we need to coordinate quickly, they're only going to become stronger over time. My theory is we use awakened clothing on everyone who votes for someone other than Mark. That way if the returned want to get someone lynched they'll have to do it last minute (which would be horridly obvious). Additionally, we watch everyone who's been active who doesn't vote for Mark, because they'll be encouraged to not back off otherwise they'll be suspicious, but if they join an overwhelming vote they won't have enough awakened clothing to prevent his death.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Dalinar Kholin
Looked back and realized that Doctor Pointed out Conq had changed his vote.

[Mark IV he/him]

Oh, how [insert word dripping with sarcasm] aha! Oh how quaint! . The eliminators just reveal one of themselves off the bat and don't really expect anyone to suggest ideas like 'kill him tonight' or 'everyone vote for him'. 

Honestly, the everyone vote for him idea is suspicious because that kills the lynch discussion tomorrow. You want me dead, I'll be dead, hands down. You're not getting anywhere discussing about me (because I'm not an eliminator). So, I'd rather just die at this point rather than be discussed anymore. (Yeah... I'm a little frustrated because this is ridiculous to me. Thanks, Returned. -__-)

Anyways, my analysis of what happened : (note: I'm assuming I'm innocent because I know I'm innocent.)

The returned spotted a golden opportunity to kill two villagers on consecutive cycles (sound familiar, Magestar?). Why not blatantly reduce the number of votes on a person to zero rather than the bare minimum needed to save me. ( for those of you not convinced, if i were returned, why keep it a close call? If two of the returned were roleblocked, then I'd have likely died. Instead, steering the lynch during the day might’ve helped more. )

Do what you will with this. 

P.S. I suspect Lopen. He seems just good enough to pull off something like this. Meta, maybe, but I don't really suspect his very much.

That's all for now.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Mark IV
Spelling and sarcastic word

[Metacognition he/him]

14 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

I'm pretty sure this could only be the work of Returned. As it wasn't discussed in the posts,  it seems a little too coordinated. Did the Returned just save their own? It seems a little Too obvious. Or were they saving mark to put a target on him? 

 

I'm on mobile, so I'll keep this short. 

I have the same concern about this being a set up, but I think it's more likely that Mark was saved because he's the one that stole Ecthelion's breath and thus has a rabbit. I just don't see any reason for them to reveal themselves so blatantly for any other reason. 

If anyone has a rope, I suggest blocking Mark tonight. 

[Magestar he/him]

10 minutes ago, Mark IV said:

The returned spotted a golden opportunity to kill two villagers on consecutive cycles (sound familiar, Magestar?).

Are you saying I'm right, or that I'm a returned?  You keep being Sarcastic, and it's hard to tell when I can't hear your tone of voice.