Trans Oceanic Knowledge Exchange

[Claincy]

2 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

To be fair, to retail workers, Black Friday doesn't mean shopping sales so much as it means "WE HEAR THEM AT THE DOORS. WE SEE THEM AWAITING OUR SALES. THEY ARE COMING. THEY ARE COMING."

Heh, fair point.

Quote

But—yikes, that sounds kind of scary, to this American. Fires are less frequent here, though we've had some bad ones in the Northwest recently.   

We tend to get a small number of really dry, windy, 40+ degree celsius (just over 100 fahrenheit) days each Summer. Once a fire gets going on a day like that it's extremely difficult to control. The thing is, bushfires are a natural part of the Australian bush ecosystem, some plants only spread seeds after a fire goes through, or their seeds spread but don't start growing till after a fire goes through. From what I remember the small fires happen less often because of human influence/control, but as a result when fires do happen there is a lot more to burn and so they can be a lot bigger.

I like the Australian bush, but we stay in the suburbs during the hotter parts of Summer, just in case

[Mestiv]

1 hour ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

So I have a question for Sharders in Europe. On TV Tropes, I encountered an entry for a show that was supposed to be set in small-town America, but the town apparently lacked the American small-town look and made viewers ask where in Europe said town was. It made me wonder—what are small towns over there like? What's distinct about them? 

1. Buildings in small towns in Europe are much older than in America. This comes from what we've seen on the tornado discussion. In USA you make cheap houses with wooden walls etc. In Europe we use bricks mostly. That way, a home built 3-4 generations ago can still serve as decent place to live.

2. It's more visible in big towns, but I think it applies to smaller towns too. The street layout. In USA you usually have a nice grid, most of the street intersecting perpendicularly. In Europe streets are wild. Just look at the image below. I think it holds true for smaller towns too.

Spoiler

3. Cars. From what I've seen on TV Americans have bigger cars. Also almost everyone in US has a car. In Europe I think cars are smaller and not that common. I mean, families usually have a car, but not more than one.

4. Gardens/the area around the house. I can't put my finger on it, but there is just something different about the look and feel of the gardens.

If I'll think of something else I'll let you know

[Kaymyth]

1 hour ago, Mestiv said:

1. Buildings in small towns in Europe are much older than in America. This comes from what we've seen on the tornado discussion. In USA you make cheap houses with wooden walls etc. In Europe we use bricks mostly. That way, a home built 3-4 generations ago can still serve as decent place to live.

2. It's more visible in big towns, but I think it applies to smaller towns too. The street layout. In USA you usually have a nice grid, most of the street intersecting perpendicularly. In Europe streets are wild. Just look at the image below. I think it holds true for smaller towns too.

  Hide contents

3. Cars. From what I've seen on TV Americans have bigger cars. Also almost everyone in US has a car. In Europe I think cars are smaller and not that common. I mean, families usually have a car, but not more than one.

4. Gardens/the area around the house. I can't put my finger on it, but there is just something different about the look and feel of the gardens.

If I'll think of something else I'll let you know

1.  Like Twi said, it's expensive to transport heavy building materials 2,000+ miles.  Plus, the sorts of building materials that hold up well against tornadoes are completely terrible for earthquakes.  We have several earthquake zones in the States, and there's some overlap with tornado territory.  Really, the U.S. is a huge overlapping Venn diagram of potential natural disasters.  And none of it matters, 'cos someday the Yellowstone supervolcano will erupt and kill us all.

2.  Heh, yeah.  Street layouts here are usually well-planned, but we have exceptions.  Kansas City is nice and gridded - except where it isn't.  Sometimes I think it's a bit worse to be expecting logical layouts and suddenly find that the street you expected to go through suddenly dead-ends in a housing division because cul de sac.

3.  With a few exceptions, it's actually very difficult to impossible to manage in the U.S. without a vehicle.  Our public transit is awful, sometimes nonexistent.  I know I've said this before, but the KC metropolitan area crosses two states and four (maybe six, depending on who you ask) counties.  Each of these regions has their own bus system, and NONE of them intersect.  You want to hop a bus across the state line?  Good luck, 'cause you're going to have get out and walk between stops, sometimes several miles, just to cross over between the bus systems.  My husband used to have a job up in the northland, and we live on the south side of the city.  He once calculated the bus route he'd have to take to get from our house to work, and it came up to a nine hour commute.  And that was with both origin and destination in the same state!

4.  Americans are obsessed with lawns.  Lawns are stupid but impossible to escape in the Midwest.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

26 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

3.  With a few exceptions, it's actually very difficult to impossible to manage in the U.S. without a vehicle.  Our public transit is awful, sometimes nonexistent.  I know I've said this before, but the KC metropolitan area crosses two states and four (maybe six, depending on who you ask) counties.  Each of these regions has their own bus system, and NONE of them intersect.  You want to hop a bus across the state line?  Good luck, 'cause you're going to have get out and walk between stops, sometimes several miles, just to cross over between the bus systems.  My husband used to have a job up in the northland, and we live on the south side of the city.  He once calculated the bus route he'd have to take to get from our house to work, and it came up to a nine hour commute.  And that was with both origin and destination in the same state!

4.  Americans are obsessed with lawns.  Lawns are stupid but impossible to escape in the Midwest.

3. My current job is the first one I've held that didn't involve a 20+ minute commute, and that's because I only searched for apartments within the same zip code as my place of employment. That's because my parents—like many American adults with families—like to live in the suburbs, and many businesses  are closer to downtown, hence the commute. Reasons for living in suburbs are varied, but in my parents' case it almost always came down to schools, and the systems they preferred being located in suburbs rather than in the city. So, if you happen to live in the suburbs and your job is downtown, you're going to need a car if you don't want to see your entire day sucked up by your commute, because like Kaymyth said, bus routes are slow. That's why many families have multiple cars—because if Mom, Dad, Billy and Josie all have jobs, those jobs are going to be at different places, and juggling schedules will be a pain, so it's just more practical to get Billy and Josie relatively inexpensive cars when they're old enough to drive. 

4. Yes indeed. Even in Tucson, where blinding sunlight and searing heat make the cost of watering a law prohibitively high, suburban homes will still have lawns. They're just plots of dirt filled with rocks and cacti, but they're still lawns. (Though I will admit, the sight of a cactus decorated for the holidays is charming.) 

Spoiler

The tall ones that look like they have arms are saguaros, which only grow in basically one environment in the world and are thus a protected species. The flat ones without lights are prickly pear cacti. They grow little pink fruits in the spring; that fruit has a sweet but very mild taste, and their juice is so sticky that if you put it in lemonade, it'll almost taste sticky. I can't tell what the shorter ones are. 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Yata]

Like Mestiv said quite every town (big or small) have a different appeal than the American's one (but I have to be honest I saw American's city just through TV).

Also little and meaningles towns are probably older of the whole USA. For example in my town you may pass in 20 minutes from the suburbs to the old town and you find there building with 900-1000 years. And they are not museums or something like that... house were normal family lives. We have too much of medieval building to not use them.

Also but this depend by the country, in Europe we have very less space than you. This mean that often one building is build very close to the next one.example: This is a photo of were I live (the old town not the whole city) of course many building were been restored and modernized:

Spoiler

or you may find some old plaza like this (this is exaclty where my city began to exist in his actual incarnation, with the water of a well that now it's a fountain)

PS: Funny fact, I almoss fell from this pillar when I was a child, I decided to reach the top....it was not a good idea

 

 

[Delightful]

7 hours ago, Claincy said:

Heh, fair point.

We tend to get a small number of really dry, windy, 40+ degree celsius (just over 100 fahrenheit) days each Summer. Once a fire gets going on a day like that it's extremely difficult to control. The thing is, bushfires are a natural part of the Australian bush ecosystem, some plants only spread seeds after a fire goes through, or their seeds spread but don't start growing till after a fire goes through. From what I remember the small fires happen less often because of human influence/control, but as a result when fires do happen there is a lot more to burn and so they can be a lot bigger.

I like the Australian bush, but we stay in the suburbs during the hotter parts of Summer, just in case

In some places people do start smaller fires, mostly to clear the brush around their homes so that when a big fire does come through, there's a safe zone of no fuel around the place and the fire will pass by. I'm sure that's coordinated with the authorities though, and they pick a day with good weather conditions for it. 

[Claincy]

1 hour ago, Delightful said:

In some places people do start smaller fires, mostly to clear the brush around their homes so that when a big fire does come through, there's a safe zone of no fuel around the place and the fire will pass by. I'm sure that's coordinated with the authorities though, and they pick a day with good weather conditions for it. 

That is true  I think it's a fairly effective precaution.

[Oversleep]

I think I might have heard about those fire-adapted plants and people making clearances on purpose, but it's still very interesting. What else can you tell me about fire?

P.S. I already know stick doesn't want to be fire.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Oversleep
P.S.

[Claincy]

@Oversleep Well, I'm not an expert and I've definitely forgotten some of the things I learned, but here's a few factoids

• There are signs placed throughout rural Victoria that display the fire danger for the day and there are various restrictions on what kind of fires/stoves/BBQs you can use depending on the fire danger. There is also advise on what precautions to take depending on the fire danger.

• 

• You can't outrun a bushfire on foot, especially if the wind is behind it. If the wind is blowing against it you might have a chance, not sure. If you're in a car that can (potentially) be a different story. In general if you're caught out in the open with a bush fire headed your way you need to seek cover.

• Don't hide in a water tower thinking the water would keep you cool. The bushfire will boil the water and you with it.

• You aren't in much danger of being killed by the actual fire from a bush fire, the heat wave that precedes it will kill you before the fire ever gets to you *yay*?

• It is possible to defend your house from a bush fire that is coming through but only if you really know what you are doing and you are well prepared for it. If that isn't the case and there's a fire nearish your area, grab what you can and get out, a home can be rebuilt. If memory serves a large portion of the casualties from bushfires have come from people who incorrectly thought they would be able to defend their homes.

There are a number of precautions you should always take when making a campfire in the bush.

• You should always make certain you have a 3m clearance of anything that could catch fire, this includes tree branches above your fire. Remove any leaf litter, twigs, etc from the area before starting the fire. A small burning twig can turn into an unmanageably large fire fast if it isn't dealt with.
• You also need to be wary of roots running under your campfire, they can catch and burn underground and a little while later you might find that the tree they were part of has started burning
• You should use an existing fireplace where possible, or dig a small trench to build the fire in.
• You should create a border of rocks around the firepit. But do not put rocks from a river in or near a fire, they may explode.
• You should always have a large bucket of water handy.
• Do not leave the fire unattended, at all, ever, and don't leave it burning overnight.
• Use dead wood, don't strip it from living plants, aside from damaging the environment the smoke is really nasty
• When you put the fire out, use large amounts of water and spread the ashes out across the fire pit (though not outside it obviously). If you bury the embers they will stay hot a lot longer and continue to be a fire hazard long after you are gone.
• Similar safety precautions and legal restrictions apply to camp stoves and the like

One of the most famous koalas in Australia:

This photo was actually taken during some bushfire work in the week before the Black Saturday bushfires in 2009. Fair warning: do not approach a wild koala under normal circumstances, they're dangerous. (But with them being an Australian animal you probably already assumed that :P)

Going to an area of bush that was hit by a bushfire a couple of years before can look pretty amazing. The area is filled with the blackened remains of burnt trees but there is new greenery springing up everywhere. It's beautiful 

These are the best images I found of it from a quick search:

I hope some of that was interesting

Edited August 26, 2016 by Claincy

[Delightful]

yes. our fire safety signs start on low/medium and end on disastrous. It can be mildly terrifying. I don't think I've ever seen them on low/medium, but to be fair I'm more usually out in the countryside in summer.

 

[little wilson]

Fires are something the western US is quite familiar with too (though perhaps not quite to the degree that it seems Australia is). The last few years, the summers have been really hot and dry so open fires are usually banned from campsites (depending on where the campsite is) because of the risk of wildfires. 2012 was one of the worst summers for fires in the west that I can remember. There was a huge one in California, one in the middle of Idaho and another in Oregon (along with some smaller ones in Utah, Colorado and, I think, Montana), so resources were spread really thin and a lot of the priority went on the California fire, to keep it away from cities. My sisters were working in the Sawtooth Wilderness Area in Idaho that summer and the huge fire there started about 18 miles north of where they were working. Burned for the next 4 months over an area of 182,000 acres (284 square miles/736 square kilometers) until it got put out from snow and rain in mid-to-late October.

That same summer, I was working at a hotel near the interstate, and a fire somehow started nearby (no idea how, though it was probably just a couple sparks from cars that set it off). Jumped the freeway and was heading straight for the hotel and the gas station nearby before the firefighters put it out. That was fun day. Knowing that if that fire reached the gas station, I was probably dead. And the hotel manager refused to answer her phone. Super great. But yeah, that's one place I don't want to be with a fire nearby again: a gas station. Hard pass.

[AliasSheep]

17 minutes ago, little wilson said:

Burned for the next 4 months over an area of 182,000 acres (284 square miles/736 square kilometers) until it got put out from snow and rain in mid-to-late October.

The idea of a fire burning for months on end never ceases to blow my mind.

[ThirdGen]

Oh wow, this answers all the tornado questions and then some.

 

 

[AliasSheep]

52 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

Oh wow, this answers all the tornado questions and then some.

 

 

Tornadogenesis sounds like a prog rock band.

 

My exposure to tornadoes comes from like, The Wizard of Oz, Twister, and this science book I had when I was younger with a picture I can still kind of remember.  How common are tornadoes in some of the places where you guys are?  Because to me I don't think they're much more than a novelty.

Edited August 27, 2016 by AliasSheep

[Sunbird]

I lived in Virginia for fifteen years and I'm pretty sure I never saw a tornado (it's not exactly something I'd be likely to forget), though I do remember being out and about when a tornado warning was announced on the radio. I only lived in Ohio full-time for about eighteen months and have no memory of tornadoes there either. Now I'm living in Utah and have been for a little over three years with similar lack of tornadoes. So yeah, seeing one would be a novelty for me too, @AliasSheep.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sunbird
Fixed typos.

[Yata]

I have a question for the USA Sharder... I know it's a sensible topic but I ask you to read it all before answer.

I always find weird the American's laws about the purchase, right to own and usage of firearms (a little curiosity, I was checking the right words on Google and is "Weapons" the same thing of "firearms" ?).

I may understand that different historical background give to the people different PoV about...quite everything (I am even a strange citizen of my own country).

This made me think, how you see our (european) restrictions about the Firearms possession/license/use. I am truly curious 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Yata

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

I have a question for the USA Sharder... I know it's a sensible topic but I ask you to read it all before answer.

I always find weird the American's laws about the purchase, right to own and usage of firearms (a little curiosity, I was checking the right words on Google and is "Weapons" the same thing of "firearms" ?).

I may understand that different historical background give to the people different PoV about...quite everything (I am even a strange citizen of my own country).

This made me think, how you see our (european) restrictions about the Firearms possession/license/use. I am truly curious 

A firearm is a gun. A weapon can be anything used offensively or defensively. As for guns in the US....

Depends on which American you ask. Guns are a pretty contentious topic in the US right now, so you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask. Some Americans think Europe's stricter gun control laws are the best way to handle guns and should be implemented in the US; others see them as impractical or even dangerous; still others see gun control as a violation of individual rights; others believe the concept of individual gun rights is a misinterpretation of the Constitution.

Personally, I was raised around guns, taught proper gun safety from the time I could walk, and so I see guns as tools. They're powerful and dangerous tools, and should be handled with care, but they're not inherently bad. Where I grew up, guns were used primarily for recreational shooting and hunting; gun safety was a part of the culture, and accidents were rare. 

That said, I know guns can cause problems. Mass shootings, accidental deaths, gang violence--guns are used in all of those, but I don't think banning guns outright is the answer. The US isn't sealocked like Australia (often used as an example of successful gun control); if guns were banned here, those who wanted them could smuggle them in over the Mexican border. It would be primarily law-abiding citizens who surrendered their guns in the first place as well. So I don't see a gun ban as the answer. It worked in Australia, yes, but what works in one country won't necessarily work in another. Transplanting solutions wholesale without taking cultural and geographical differences into account won't solve the problem without creating another. 

I would support strengthening the limits the US already places on firearms, and adding some new ones. Mandatory waiting periods are already in place, psychological testing is a good idea in my opinion, and gun safety classes are already mandatory for obtaining one's permit. I'd take it one step further and mandate basic gun safety for everyone, to minimize accidental shooting deaths. Closing loopholes would be another step toward keeping the wrong people from having guns. 

Essentially, guns are a part of American culture, for better or for worse. They're not going anywhere--not without creating a slew of new problems, anyway--so I think the best thing we can do is learn how to coexist with them. 

[Yata]

Thanks for your answer, I was unsure about make those question, because I know it's a sensible topic.

Probably I have some problem to see them as normal because my only experience with them (with an "assoult rifle" if I remember the right terminology) was not very pleasant.

Anyway I understand your point. But to be honest I was much more worried than actually wicked uses than accidental shot.

Spoiler to compress a long example about our procedure:

Spoiler

 

For example where I am: to get a "sport license" with firearms (the more easy to get and with more limitations) you need to complete several steps: A medical certificate by your doctor that said "you are a normal guy without some basic problem to the license", then a psycological-drug-(another who don't rememeber) test, then you can go to the polygon and made request. They will invite in the structure for a day of basic training and knowledge of secure with firegun. They will observe you and how did you understand all the procedures.

All this to get the licence, at this point you may buy a firearm and bullet (here every bullet you buy is registered).

When you are not in the polygon, your firearm have to be dismounted. And in your home you have to prepare a safe to keep it. Also the police force have to know where you go with the weapon (you leave to them your route from home to polygon and if they find you with the weapon in this route all right, if you are in another place with the weapon is a crime)

 

 

[soyperson]

To all non-Americans out there...

What do you guys think of our politics? 

I feel like it'd be funny from a distance, but when you're in the country and an egocentric lump of dough with a spray tan is trying to take over and do pointless stuff, it's a tad bit more scary.

[skaa]

4 hours ago, bleeder said:

To all non-Americans out there...

What do you guys think of our politics? 

I feel like it'd be funny from a distance, but when you're in the country and an egocentric lump of dough with a spray tan is trying to take over and do pointless stuff, it's a tad bit more scary.

Oh, I heard about that guy. We call him the American version of our dear President Rodrigo Duterte.

Edit: I'm from the Philippines. Americans say Duterte is the Trump of the East, but there's a big difference: Duterte has already won the Presidency.

And to be perfectly clear, both of them scare me, but I'm more scared of the guy with decades of experience in extrajudicial killings and whose assassins are currently roaming streets near me and could target me by mistake. Though of course, death by U.S. drone could hypothetically happen to me as well if I am unlucky enough. After all, Trump thinks the Philippines is a terrorist nation, so a Trump Presidency could make my life slightly more dangerous than it is now.

Edited August 30, 2016 by skaa

[soyperson]

9 hours ago, skaa said:

Oh, I heard about that guy. We call him the American version of our dear President Rodrigo Duterte.

Edit: I'm from the Philippines. Americans say Duterte is the Trump of the East, but there's a big difference: Duterte has already won the Presidency.

And to be perfectly clear, both of them scare me, but I'm more scared of the guy with decades of experience in extrajudicial killings and whose assassins are currently roaming streets near me and could target me by mistake. Though of course, death by U.S. drone could hypothetically happen to me as well if I am unlucky enough. After all, Trump thinks the Philippines is a terrorist nation, so a Trump Presidency could make my life slightly more dangerous than it is now.

Oh, dude. That's terrible. I hope my country doesn't harm you...

Also, Trump plans to cut off funds to any city in the nation that does not comply with his rulings.

And he says he'll "make" Mexico pay for a border wall, but then he says if they refuse to, he'll back off. What the actual chull.

[Kaymyth]

14 minutes ago, bleeder said:

Oh, dude. That's terrible. I hope my country doesn't harm you...

Also, Trump plans to cut off funds to any city in the nation that does not comply with his rulings.

And he says he'll "make" Mexico pay for a border wall, but then he says if they refuse to, he'll back off. What the actual chull.

Dude really has no idea what he's doing.  I honestly think he's more interested in winning, and not so much in the actual job.  That's what he's after - the win.  Everything that happens after that is irrelevant in his mind.  Which is why he's just standing up there saying anything he thinks will help him win.

[soyperson]

Just now, Kaymyth said:

Dude really has no idea what he's doing.  I honestly think he's more interested in winning, and not so much in the actual job.  That's what he's after - the win.  Everything that happens after that is irrelevant in his mind.  Which is why he's just standing up there saying anything he thinks will help him win.

I don't think he realizes how hard (bordering on impossible) it'll be to pass his idiotic schemes through the Supreme Court. Or the citizens, for that matter. 

[Kaymyth]

8 minutes ago, bleeder said:

I don't think he realizes how hard (bordering on impossible) it'll be to pass his idiotic schemes through the Supreme Court. Or the citizens, for that matter. 

Well, no.  He's a spoiled, narcissistic bully of a special snowflake.  Rules don't apply to him.

[soyperson]

Just now, Kaymyth said:

Well, no.  He's a spoiled, narcissistic bully of a special snowflake.  Rules don't apply to him.

Kaymyth, I do believe that we shall get along swell.