Adolin's Fate?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Argel said:

FWIW, Peter didn't seem to think Sadeas' lantern mattered that much. I think we are over-evaluating the scene, and likely the evidence, etc. I wonder if Adolin will just admit it to someone. Could be a hard secret for him to keep. If Kaladin was there, he might go to him. But since he's not, maybe Renarin or Shallan? Or maybe pull a Kaldadin and visit Vasher/Zahel. I think he's less likely to talk to his father at least not before talking to someone else. Navani is a wildcard here -- he could go to her, thinking she would be sympathetic (Sadeas trying to get Dalinar killed on the shattered plains likely left a very bad taste in her mouth).

Peter? When did you get the chance to talk with Peter? I certainly agree with you, we maybe over-evaluating it. Based from I have managed to guess about book 3, the aftermath of Sadeas's death isn't as big of a deal as we think it may be. The ramifications are likely to be complex (for Dalinar, let's not kid ourselves in thinking Adolin is going to have an interesting arc), but solving the murder will likely be very quick.The focus of the story isn't on Adolin, so we can't expect a deep arc where he wonders what to do: Adolin has no POV within Part 1 which means we are never going to read what his thought process is following the event. For reasons I am incapable of understanding (as there is nothing I wanted to read more than that), the author doesn't think he needs to give us this particular insight.

I'd thus say Adolin probably spills the beans very early on. He would never talk to Renarin as he is still set up to keep on playing at being the strong, confident one. Adolin never shares his burden with his little brother, never. So he is out of the loop. I doubt he'll open up to Shallan because he now fears he isn't good enough for her, so he won't go and admit he just killed a Highprince. Zahel seems a good choice: I could see him asking him advice, but my personal guess would be Ardent Kadash with whom he seemed to be capable of opening a bit more than with other people. The only problem is... well... as I said Adolin has no POV in Part 1 which means, if he talks it will be to Dalinar from Dalinar's POV.

Incredibly disappointing if Adolin goes to daddy early on to admit his guilt. I had been hoping for a bigger arc here, but it seems the most likely. 

[Argel he/him]

7 hours ago, maxal said:

Peter? When did you get the chance to talk with Peter?

I wish I had a chance to talk to him!! I pinged him and Brandon via twitter, with a brief theory (loosely, did the lantern imply Adolin went back a different route). I'm probably at my quota for answers now though. One nice thing about Twitter though is the short length, so there may be a better chance at a response, if you are willing to wait a couple weeks. I have to say, Team Brandon is really great at interacting with fans.

I was mainly thinking of Renarin as a last resort since we are not sure who is at U. Or if he someone knows from being a KR. We don't know how his powers work, so maybe he finds out by accident.

Maybe we will get a POV from Adolin later in the book, as reflects on it if he discusses various things with someone else such as Shallan after it has come to light. Or maybe there are so many other things going on that Adolin doesn't reveal he did it till later on. With the desolation, Sadeas's murder will be one of many things on Dalinar's plate -- if he even looks into it personally at all. Elohkar may appoint someone to look into it. Also, if that lore section is heavy on flashbacks, we could have a big gap in current events.

Gah!! I forgot all about Kadash!! Another good option! Seems like we are favoring the ardents slightly (since Zahel is technically one). Maybe we will get a Zahel POV on it in an Interlude.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Argel said:

I wish I had a chance to talk to him!! I pinged him and Brandon via twitter, with a brief theory (loosely, did the lantern imply Adolin went back a different route). I'm probably at my quota for answers now though. One nice thing about Twitter though is the short length, so there may be a better chance at a response, if you are willing to wait a couple weeks. I have to say, Team Brandon is really great at interacting with fans.

I was mainly thinking of Renarin as a last resort since we are not sure who is at U. Or if he someone knows from being a KR. We don't know how his powers work, so maybe he finds out by accident.

Maybe we will get a POV from Adolin later in the book, as reflects on it if he discusses various things with someone else such as Shallan after it has come to light. Or maybe there are so many other things going on that Adolin doesn't reveal he did it till later on. With the desolation, Sadeas's murder will be one of many things on Dalinar's plate -- if he even looks into it personally at all. Elohkar may appoint someone to look into it. Also, if that lore section is heavy on flashbacks, we could have a big gap in current events.

Gah!! I forgot all about Kadash!! Another good option! Seems like we are favoring the ardents slightly (since Zahel is technically one). Maybe we will get a Zahel POV on it in an Interlude.

 

I am not active on twitter, so I missed it 

If the aftermath of Sadeas's death isn't broach within Adolin's POV until the end of the book, then it will be a severe disappointment. I had always felt this arc belonged to Adolin (and not Dalinar or anyone else), therefore to find out Brandon's team doesn't agree it does is truly baffling. We need Adolin's POV, early in book 3: without it, I can't envision how the book could be satisfactory. 

I'd therefore say, reading a few sentences late in the book of how it may have happen from Adolin's POV is not satisfactory. This was supposed to be his arc, why isn't it his arc?

[Argel he/him]

So how does Sadeas's short POV in WoR factor into Brandon's structure? Is there a chance Brandon could include a short Adolin POV that he's not counting as part of the main structure? Like maybe we mainly we get Dalinar's POV with a quick cut to Adolin's, then back to Dalinar's?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

19 minutes ago, Argel said:

So how does Sadeas's short POV in WoR factor into Brandon's structure? Is there a chance Brandon could include a short Adolin POV that he's not counting as part of the main structure? Like maybe we mainly we get Dalinar's POV with a quick cut to Adolin's, then back to Dalinar's?

Thats not just Sadeas. Gaz had some random POVs in Part 2 or 3 in WoK. 

[Guest]

He has different ranking for characters: primary, secondary, tertiary, interlude, novella and occasional. Each Stormlight Archive book is comprised of several books: the main narrative which features the primary, the secondary and the tertiary characters; the flashbacks which features the primary character; the interlude which features several characters usually uncorrelated with the main ones; the novella which is a short story focusing on one specific character. In the case of book 3, we are getting two novellas: one within the interlude (previously was Szeth, then Eshonai) and one within Part 2. While we do not know which characters either will focus on (and the information is RAFO because spoiler-y), we do know it someone typically unconnected to the main cast (so not Jasnah). 

Gaz and are Teft occasional POV characters meaning they had one short POV during one specific moment. These happen, but they aren't tertiary characters. I am unsure what Sadeas's classification would be, but since his name appeared on the Parts title page, I'd say he probably ranked as a lesser tertiary character.

Adolin is a tertiary character which means he has POV within a few selected parts only. According to the plan, no tertiary characters have POV within Part 1 which means we are 100% guaranteed not to read Adolin's POV within Part 1. An occasional POV character, such as Gaz or Teft, may have a small POV within any given part without being announced, but Adolin isn't such a character. 

When are we getting Adolin's POV? I have no idea. I do know Brandon is currently working on Part 3 and he did say he needed to take a break to write the Szeth's flashback sequences because he feared he may create inconsistencies within the main narrative which indicates Szeth is one of the tertiary characters featured in either Part 3 or Part 4. It doesn't say much, truth to be told. Therefore while we could get Adolin's POV within Part 2, we could also have to wait for Part 4, I simply cannot say. My hopes are set on Part 2, but Part 2 is supposed to be so bizarre I honestly do not know what to think of it nor what to expect.

It is thus, unless the beta readers come across saying the lack of Adolin's POV within Part 1 is a no-go and terrible for the story flow (which I doubt will happen), then it is highly unlikely we are getting his thoughts on the aftermath of Sadeas. We aren't going to read Adolin wondering about what he should do or anything as by the time we get his POV, this arc will probably be long pass and gone. It won't happen through his head, but through Dalinar's.

Why? I honestly do not know, I am not the author, but based on the answers he has given in the past, I'd say Brandon doesn't feel, as a whole, Adolin is a character he needs to focus strongly on. He says what we see is what we get, so there is no need to further explore him. In other words, he doesn't think he is secretive and introspective enough to require more page time, that and the fact he was just never planned as a viewpoint character. Being an extroverted person myself, I feel completely deflated at being told characters such as Adolin aren't interesting enough to need page time nor focus, but at this point, we are tackling within personal preferences. It may just be the author prefers focusing on other kind of characters and Adolin isn't a character he finds as interesting as some of his readers do. I mean, authors have preference, quirks and such... and given his other books, it seems obvious he prefers working with characters with a dark past who do not talk much or characters having a disability or whom are mentally ill. The fall arc doesn't seem to be something he tends to write, on a general basis.

But, who knows, maybe it'll turn out being a very satisfactory arc for Adolin, despite the odds, but it looks rather grim right now.

[Ariyar]

It's sad that the author feels that way, but I hope he lurks about the forum and maybe considers exploring more on Adolin. The young Kholin needs much love.

On the topic though, it's possible that Adolin might be killed off by Nale or Szeth, when we're all feeling safe and sound. Being an uptight character Dalinar is, I wonder if he would order a "death sentence" for Adolin too, should the murder be exposed? And it's possible that Adolin might confess his crime to Kaladin instead of Dalinar and others.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ariyar

[Oversleep]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

I do know Brandon is currently working on Part 3 and he did say he needed to take a break to write the Szeth's flashback sequences because he feared he may create inconsistencies within the main narrative which indicates Szeth is one of the tertiary characters featured in either Part 3 or Part 4.

Would you mind linking a source? It's a totally news to me.

BTW, we're all talking about how Adolin has no PoVs in the Part One... but what if the Part One is not really long (days-wise)? I mean, there may be going on so much that the part One would be a day or two without much going on in Adolin's arc. Then it would kick off with part Two.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Would you mind linking a source? It's a totally news to me.

BTW, we're all talking about how Adolin has no PoVs in the Part One... but what if the Part One is not really long (days-wise)? I mean, there may be going on so much that the part One would be a day or two without much going on in Adolin's arc. Then it would kick off with part Two.

Here is the WoB in question:

This will go in my next update, but the big thing this week is me thinking I'm going to need to write out the Szeth flashbacks (which now exist only in outline) before I finish this book. That might slow me down, for while they don't go in this novel (at least in the current plan) I'm increasingly certain I need them in hand for certain scenes I'll be doing. So the percentage bar might stop inching up for a few weeks sometime next month, as I turn attention to those. Don't panic if you see that happen.

He then confirmed the part he was currently working on was Part 3. So either he needs those flashback for Part 3 or in preparation for Part 4. 

As for Part 1, he mentioned elsewhere it was the longest part he had ever written so while it may, theoretically, not last long, in terms of days, it seems unlikely we would read 400-something pages spreading over a few hours only. Part 2 is said to another very long one which brings us to half-book and there is guarantee there is an Adolin's POV in there. While two tertiary characters are set to have POV time within Part 2, Brandon also said it would mostly focus on lore and world-building via the novella he planned to insert in there. My understanding are the novella occupies perhaps 3/4 of Part 2, leaving very little room for the other characters. Tertiary characters within Part 2 likely do not have more than one or two POV chapters.

No matter how I look at it, book 3 looks rather sparse in terms of page time for Adolin. I think we need to prepare ourselves to the fact the author isn't going to write his thoughts following the massive cliffhanger of WoR: this arc isn't his own. Just as all arcs involving Adolin, it will end up being about someone else, in this case, probably Dalinar.

 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Ariyar said:

It's sad that the author feels that way, but I hope he lurks about the forum and maybe considers exploring more on Adolin. The young Kholin needs much love.

On the topic though, it's possible that Adolin might be killed off by Nale or Szeth, when we're all feeling safe and sound. Being an uptight character Dalinar is, I wonder if he would order a "death sentence" for Adolin too, should the murder be exposed? And it's possible that Adolin might confess his crime to Kaladin instead of Dalinar and others.

It isn't he dislikes Adolin, he just doesn't think the character requires much attention nor does he seem to think he has any layers to explore. It has always baffled me how the author's view of his own character differed from my own as I think Adolin has many layers to explore... I certainly feel there is much unsaid and there is nothing I wanted to read more than the continuity of his arc following Sadeas's murder.

But we aren't getting it, not through his POV this is and we may not even get much. I wouldn't be surprise if Adolin had nothing but 3 or 4 POV chapters within the whole book.

As for Brandon lurking in, I doubt he has the time to read our conversations. I know Peter sometimes pops in, but I doubt he too reads everything. Even if they did, simply because the readers want more Adolin doesn't mean Brandon will write more: he can't change his plans based on the whims of his readers... The only way I can see him back away from his initial intentions is if he realizes giving a stronger focus to Adolin makes for the best story which seems unlikely to happen. He once said how characters such as Lift were dangerous because he felt compel to write more of them... Sadly Adolin isn't one of those characters he seems to enjoy writing as he doesn't have this compulsion to write more when it comes to him.

It isn't quite how I expected things to turn out when I finished WoR. I thought Adolin would grow into a main protagonist with his own focus book 

On the topic, I doubt Adolin is killed by Szeth or Nale: it would be an anti-climatic arc if there ever was one.

Edit: Sorry double post.. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by maxal

[Ariyar]

50 minutes ago, maxal said:

It isn't he dislikes Adolin, he just doesn't think the character requires much attention nor does he seem to think he has any layers to explore. It has always baffled me how the author's view of his own character differed from my own as I think Adolin has many layers to explore... I certainly feel there is much unsaid and there is nothing I wanted to read more than the continuity of his arc following Sadeas's murder.

But we aren't getting it, not through his POV this is and we may not even get much. I wouldn't be surprise if Adolin had nothing but 3 or 4 POV chapters within the whole book.

As for Brandon lurking in, I doubt he has the time to read our conversations. I know Peter sometimes pops in, but I doubt he too reads everything. Even if they did, simply because the readers want more Adolin doesn't mean Brandon will write more: he can't change his plans based on the whims of his readers... The only way I can see him back away from his initial intentions is if he realizes giving a stronger focus to Adolin makes for the best story which seems unlikely to happen. He once said how characters such as Lift were dangerous because he felt compel to write more of them... Sadly Adolin isn't one of those characters he seems to enjoy writing as he doesn't have this compulsion to write more when it comes to him.

It isn't quite how I expected things to turn out when I finished WoR. I thought Adolin would grow into a main protagonist with his own focus book 

On the topic, I doubt Adolin is killed by Szeth or Nale: it would be an anti-climatic arc if there ever was one.

Oh, I don't think he dislikes Adolin, and I don't expect him to satisfy the whims of the readers. What I meant was... If he were to lurk around long enough, maybe he will have a change of perspective...enough that he might consider much could be done about Adolin.

And yes, it would be really nice if Adolin got his own focus book. I had always liked reading his PoVs, no matter how few they were. In essence, they were similar to but less suffocating than Dalinar's since Adolin's PoVs feel much more unrestrained than his father's.

As for Lift, although she added much to the story, I had a really difficult time reading her chapter. She has a style to her speech, but I still could not relate to her much. I found her ok as a child, but not particularly captivating as a character. And I admit I skimmed through her chapter. That, and I felt bad for her spren, lol.

------------

The premonition I was feeling was... Adolin might not be killed off in the third book, but he could be killed off in the fourth or fifth book. So many ways for him to die. It could be anti-climatic, but it would still add a a shock value. <= I would hate it, but I know many who would enjoy it, not because they like death, but because they just like being shocked.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ariyar

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Ariyar said:

Oh, I don't think he dislikes Adolin, and I don't expect him to satisfy the whims of the readers. What I meant was... If he were to lurk around long enough, maybe he will have a change of perspective...enough that he might consider much could be done about Adolin.

And yes, it would be really nice if Adolin got his own focus book. I always liked reading his PoVs, no matter how few they were. In essence, they were similar to but less suffocating than Dalinar's since Adolin's PoVs feel much more unrestrained than his father's.

As for Lift, although she added much to the story, I had a really difficult time reading her chapter. She has a style to her speech, but I still could not relate to her much. I found her ok as a child, but not particularly captivating as a character. And I admit I skimmed through her chapter. That, and I felt bad for her spren, lol.

------------

The premonition I was feeling was... Adolin might not be killed off in the third book, but he could be killed off in the fourth or fifth book. So many ways for him to die. It could be anti-climatic, but it would still add a a shock value. <= I would hate it, but I know many who would enjoy it, not because they like death, but because they just like being shocked.

 

It isn't I disagree with you... I don't. It's simply the author has a story he wants to tell and it order for it to happen, he needs certain key characters to bring it to fruition. Adolin isn't one of those characters even if the first two books may lead us to believe he is. Already, he has altered much of his initial planning in order to include Adolin as a viewpoint character and he is rather pleased with the result. His last words on the matter are Adolin works because he doesn't need a focus: in other words, the author thinks he is a character he can incorporate without needing to spend lots of pages developing. Those few sporadic POV are considered sufficient to wrap on the character mostly because he isn't secretive and more outward than the rest of the cast which means he doesn't feel he needs to give us his POV as other characters POV on him are enough.

Of course, I disagree, but I am not an author. I have no sense of what makes a good story or not. All I can say if which story I want to read the most and Adolin is it. 

We must also consider the possibility the only reason Adolin has a POV within book 3 is because Brandon is aware the character is popular... It may be without him being aware of his popularity, he would have gotten even less.

I also think it is quite possible the author doesn't find the struggles typical to characters having Adolin's personality all that interesting. He is very different than his usual characters, so it may be he just is too outside the box, hence he doesn't feel he needs to work onto those layers. He may be falling into the trap of thinking extroverted individuals have no layers to explore because they project so much 

I have been rather unconvinced by Lift as a main protagonist... She sounds too irrational, her thought process have little link in between them and I tend to dislike characters who run away for very superficial reasons. While I am keen on finding out how she'll grow and while I like her as an interlude character, that's about it for now. 

So many readers have predicted Adolin's death I doubt it will come as a shock... I shock is what Brandon is going for, then he should kill someone else, not Adolin whom half the readers expect to die due to him not being a main protagonist and essentially being... not required.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by maxal

[Ariyar]

TT______TT

Sighs. I'm actually speechless.

...I suppose you're right about that.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ariyar

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I think Adolin might die. However, I dont think Brandon kills purely for shock value.

[Argel he/him]

17 hours ago, maxal said:

While I am keen on finding out how she'll grow and while I like her as an interlude character, that's about it for now. 

I'm hoping the nightwatcher boon/bane is undone so she starts mentally maturing. I'm also having a hard time with an entire book dedicated to her as she is now. This isn't a young adult series, Alcatraz, etc. The novella in the CC (Arcanum Unbounded) may convince me otherwise though.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Argel
typos

[Djarskublar he/him]

I have to say I agree with Brandon on this one. I never really felt there was much to Adolin. He is a nice dude, even when nobody is watching. I honestly don't think he will have much emotional fallout from Sadeas. He will just rationalise it in his mind, and Dalinar will be the one having to confront what happened. We will also likely see Dalinar murder someone in flashback that will affect how he treats Adolin quite a bit.

Lift is a fascinating character. Reading her interludes was greatly interesting for more than worldbuilding reasons. I hope she gets over her boon/bane but keeps the metabolism power. As she is now, she is doing something similar to Shallan. She is hiding her past by literally running away.

Newsletter spoilers here, but not major:

She doesn't want to face whatever is in her past or grow up, so she asked the nightwatcher to never grow up, expecting a physical change, but it just makes her stay mentally 10 as she ages. It is implied that she just had her first period, and she is freaking out because in her mind it should never happen. She keeps drifting from place to place so that she isn't changed by the people she associates with.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Argel said:

I'm hoping the nightwatcher boon/bane is undone so she starts mentally maturing. I'm also having a hard time with an entire book dedicated to her as she is now. This isn't a young adult series, Alcatraz, etc. The novella in the CC (Arcanum Unbounded) may convince me otherwise though.

The first extract didn't convince me  but I am sure the novella will be interesting on other aspects, but I am worried just as you with regards to his decision to focus on certain characters. 

4 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I have to say I agree with Brandon on this one. I never really felt there was much to Adolin. He is a nice dude, even when nobody is watching. I honestly don't think he will have much emotional fallout from Sadeas. He will just rationalise it in his mind, and Dalinar will be the one having to confront what happened. We will also likely see Dalinar murder someone in flashback that will affect how he treats Adolin quite a bit.

Lift is a fascinating character. Reading her interludes was greatly interesting for more than worldbuilding reasons. I hope she gets over her boon/bane but keeps the metabolism power. As she is now, she is doing something similar to Shallan. She is hiding her past by literally running away.

Newsletter spoilers here, but not major:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

She doesn't want to face whatever is in her past or grow up, so she asked the nightwatcher to never grow up, expecting a physical change, but it just makes her stay mentally 10 as she ages. It is implied that she just had her first period, and she is freaking out because in her mind it should never happen. She keeps drifting from place to place so that she isn't changed by the people she associates with.

 

The problem with Adolin is the author planted too many seeds, too many elements, but he is now saying they never existed. Adolin has never reacted to events with a rational mind, why start now he did the worst action he ever conducted? Adolin has always been emotionally impulsive, why would he suddenly change personality and become this grounded individual who isn't impact by events when he just spent a book going into a roller-coaster?

This would be the equivalent of having Kaladin have no issue whatsoever in becoming a Captain, accepting Dalinar's lead and guidance as if he had never been betrayed. It would be the equivalent of having Kaladin's anger vanish away because he would rationalize it is stupid to behave in such a childish immature way.

It would have been a terrible read if it had happen because it would have gone against the character we have previously read.

Adolin is just the same, others may not see it, heck, the author may not see it, but hundreds and hundreds of pages of discussions having span over more than two years involving several dozens of SA fans all agreeing Adolin not only had those depths, but they should be further explored can't be wrong. Adolin is one of the most discussed character since the release of SA, each time the subject falls on him, it gets numerous answers and it keeps coming back. Over and over again: this hardly is the first thread, neither here or elsewhere. The Tor.com re-read hit its highest posts numbers in the threads which discussed Adolin. There is no denying there is a strong interest within the readership to read more of Adolin: some have come forth stating they wouldn't be satisfied if the downfall of Sadeas ultimately doesn't happen to be Adolin's arc. Several people have expressed sadness and disappointment over finding out we wouldn't be getting his POV early in book 3.

There aren't a lot of ways Brandon could miss with book 3, but not giving Adolin his arc is one of those. There has been too much expectations when it comes to him, there are too many readers who yearn to read this arc not to give it something resembling a focus. It is why, if book 3 pans out as you suggested, with having Adolin just go on his own way as if nothing happened will create a strong wave of disappointment within the readers. They may not give up the series, but they may feel the author passed the chance to write one heck of a good story arc.

Not everyone is going to agree on who's the best character to read: some love Lift, some aren't convinced (such as myself) and there are those who love Adolin. Adolin is the only character of any importance not getting his own focus. The only one who isn't going to explored in all its depth. It is very hurtful for the extroverted readers out there to be told the one character who evolves on their side of the spectrum is not considered "interesting enough because not introverted" by the author. This is why the Adolin's fans complain from time to time: because they feel WoR gave them the promise of something which will never happen. A lot of people truly thought Adolin would become a main protagonist. A lot. And not only it isn't happening, it seems as if we are going to have to be content with a tiny side arc mostly likely involving him being a foil to Dalinar, once again, for a list of reasons which do make sense, when you are the author, but disappoints the readers, not all of them, but a significantly high enough number of them.

Sorry for the rant, it isn't against you or anyone  It is just so frustrating 

[Djarskublar he/him]

I get your stance @maxal, but in all honesty, there isn't much to Adolin. I like characters like him. They frequently have hidden depth. But with Adolin what you see is about what you get. He will feel guilty about the murder, but not much. He had good reason to do it. It was arguably self defense, and so it will be easy for him to rationalise his actions.

For Kaladin to rationalize, he would have to, say, kill Elhokar and then try to justify it to himself. That was not a justified killing. If I was in Adolin's shoes, I would have killed him too, and not even try to hide it. Amaram got away with killing Kal's men, and while they are lower rank, Adolin can get away with a far more justified killing. I love reading Adolin too, but I agree that he is just support cast. He may get lots of screen time, and even some POVs but he isn't important. Adolin was interesting at the beginning of WoK, but he has matured enough now that I dont think that his murder or the fact that he is no longer the big man on campus will affect him that much. He (and Dalinar) got a plenty large dose of humble pie from fighting Szeth. He was vindicated in his suspicion of both Kaladin and Sadeas. He got the pants scared off him by the disadvantaged duel, and he had an interesting fight with Eshonai. He isnt the arrogant nice guy he was. He is now a man who has some literal skeletons in his closet, but is strong enough to deal with it. I don't feel he has the same potential for growth that other characters do.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

I get your stance @maxal, but in all honesty, there isn't much to Adolin. I like characters like him. They frequently have hidden depth. But with Adolin what you see is about what you get. He will feel guilty about the murder, but not much. He had good reason to do it. It was arguably self defense, and so it will be easy for him to rationalise his actions.

For Kaladin to rationalize, he would have to, say, kill Elhokar and then try to justify it to himself. That was not a justified killing. If I was in Adolin's shoes, I would have killed him too, and not even try to hide it. Amaram got away with killing Kal's men, and while they are lower rank, Adolin can get away with a far more justified killing. I love reading Adolin too, but I agree that he is just support cast. He may get lots of screen time, and even some POVs but he isn't important. Adolin was interesting at the beginning of WoK, but he has matured enough now that I dont think that his murder or the fact that he is no longer the big man on campus will affect him that much. He (and Dalinar) got a plenty large dose of humble pie from fighting Szeth. He was vindicated in his suspicion of both Kaladin and Sadeas. He got the pants scared off him by the disadvantaged duel, and he had an interesting fight with Eshonai. He isnt the arrogant nice guy he was. He is now a man who has some literal skeletons in his closet, but is strong enough to deal with it. I don't feel he has the same potential for growth that other characters do.

I put this part in bold to state: this is your opinion. You can't state it as if it were a fact. You think there isn't much more to Adolin, you think he will not feel any guilt about the murder, you think he will rationalize it (even if he was never good at rationalizing, but let's skip this tiny detail) but this is you thinking. I think differently and I certainly believe the words the author wrote in the books proves me right. 

If the story pans out as you suggested, then yes I will be very disappointed because the character I have read so far has not even begun to grow, he hasn't even started to tackle his own issues. I don't believe one tiny fight with Szeth is enough to have him magically be alright with his entire family being Radiants. Really. This is beyond weak plotting and completely unrealistic: nobody grows this fast, nobody throws away a whole life at being the top dog because of one single fight, but this is besides the point: Adolin tells us right away he isn't fine with it. In his own POV. Of course, Brandon could ignore this fact and write exactly what you suggest: a boring character who is impacted by nothing because he is just so flawless nothing gets to him, but to which end? Why even bother give Adolin ANY POV time at all if it is to ignore everything already written about him? Not to mention he readers wouldn't buy it. Really. You REALLY think Adolin is just going to brush away everything as if nothing ever happened? 

Besides, Adolin can't get away with the murder because he killed a Highprince: not a few random darkeyed soldiers which he can cover up rather easily by a track of lies. Killing Sadeas is nearly as bad as killing the King. I would also state here because you find his actions are easy to rationalize doesn't mean Adolin thinks they are: his every actions suggest otherwise. 

This being said, the author arguably agrees with you: Brandon has stated he didn't think there was much to say about Adolin. He's the one who said "what you see id what you get". I read that. My conclusions are he obviously doesn't enjoy the character as much as several of his readers and it is a shame because the progression Adolin could have had could have been one heck of a good story arc, much better than Kaladin, IMHO, because less classic and less predictable. Different. 

I'll conclude in saying there are no characters like Adolin, not in any fantasy books I had ever picked. If there are some resembling him, they tend to be comical relief or side-kicks. No author has ever tried at writing a serious character having a personality similar to Adolin. No one I could find and I have been trying to find books which would satisfy my need to see a satisfying arc being carried on for a similar-like character. I have found none, yet. I had wished for the past two years Brandon would be this author as he is someone I genuinely love reading. His last message was dispiriting because he confirms what I already suspected: he doesn't think Adolin is an interesting character. He thinks he is useful within his story, but he is leagues behind basically everyone else.

So rest assure, you are most probably right when it comes to Adolin, but I still disagree because the character I read had much more depth than some fellow readers, and the author it seems, believe he has. It also happens a lot of other readers kinda of agree with me as well.

Edited August 30, 2016 by maxal