ettmetal = lithium

[Farnsworth]

I am almost certain that ettmetal is lithium. Here's why.

1: ettmetal explodes in water. The only metals that actually behave in this way are alkali metals, which means that ettmetal could be lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, cesium, or francium.

2: lithium, sodium, and potassium are the only ones that occur naturally in the world without human creation, and Scadrial will not have that tech for a long time, even in the south.

3: Sodium and potassium don't usually occur in pure form, so it would have to be lithium.

Any objections? Ideas?

[Eki]

I dunno... The bomb at the end seemed to be an ettmetal bomb, and I don't think such a small amount of lithium would be able to cause such a big explosion. Lithium is the least reactive of the alkali metals iirc.

I think ettmetal is magical somehow. Probably Sazedium/Harmonium, but we'll have to see.

[Pagerunner he/him]

The ettmetal bomb does not necessarily add water to ettmetal to cause the explosion; it could be an Investiture-powered explosion drawing on the ettmetal (like a giant Steelpush in all directions).

As to Point 3, pure lithium doesn't exist in nature, either. According to Wikipedia, all three metals were first isolated in the early 1800s, with Lithium being discovered 10 years after Sodium and Potassium. I'd expect Sodium or Potassium to be more prevalent, since they occur more frequently in nature in RL.

[Argent he/him]

I've seen this theory before. I don't remember the details, but I think I saw a pretty compelling piece of evidence against it. I just don't remember if I saw it here or on Reddit...

Hmm, after a quick search it looks like the counter evidence was not as compelling as I thought it was. It looks like I was pretty sold on the idea that ettmetal is lithium for a number of reasons. Then @Ari suggested that it's probably cesium because it actually explodes when it comes in contact with water. After a quick Google-powered research session just now, it turns out that lithium reacts too slowly to generate an explosion. Cesium, on the other hand, according to the same source "explodes on contact with water, quite possibly shattering the container". Furthermore, while lithium release more energy per mole, it releases it slowly, and this prevents the spectacular effects we see described in The Bands of Mourning.

In conclusion, I am not firmly sold on ettmetal being cesium, assuming no magical metals are involved.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Argent

[Pagerunner he/him]

11 minutes ago, Argent said:

I've seen this theory before. I don't remember the details, but I think I saw a pretty compelling piece of evidence against it. I just don't remember if I saw it here or on Reddit...

Was it this analysis of the linguistics that supports Harmonium? They translate ettmetal as "One Metal," and imply unity (Harmonium, combination of Atium and Lerasium). Actually, if taken another way, it could be referring to the first metal on the Periodic Table - Lithium.

[Argent he/him]

1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

Was it this analysis of the linguistics that supports Harmonium? They translate ettmetal as "One Metal," and imply unity (Harmonium, combination of Atium and Lerasium). Actually, if taken another way, it could be referring to the first metal on the Periodic Table - Lithium.

This was a part of it. I updated my reply with some more details and my (personal and final) verdict on the matter - i.e. if ettmetal is a metal we are familiar with, it is cesium, not lithium. 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

One thing to remember is that Scadrian metallurgy would be considered very advanced when compared to a similar era on Earth so it is entirely possible they have the tech to isolate the various alkali metals.

[kenod]

Just now, CaptainRyan said:

One thing to remember is that Scadrian metallurgy would be considered very advanced when compared to a similar era on Earth so it is entirely possible they have the tech to isolate the various alkali metals.

Agreed, you are talking about a Society that has enough tech to build flying ships, Something that even we can't (or perhaps we can, but it is inefficient without magic).

[CaptainRyan he/him]

Just now, kenod said:

Agreed, you are talking about a Society that has enough tech to build flying ships, Something that even we can't (or perhaps we can, but it is inefficient without magic).

Not only that, but we have a WoP (Word of Peter) saying that Scardian metallurgy would be very advanced when compared to the matching Earth era but Scadrian advancement in the area of electricity is stagnated when compared to the matching Earth era. 

[king of nowhere]

i made the connection that it may be an alkali metal because it exploded with water, but i see no way to ascertain exactly which metal it is. though i would discard litium, as others have said it's not explosive enough.

[Ari he/him]

6 hours ago, Argent said:

I've seen this theory before. I don't remember the details, but I think I saw a pretty compelling piece of evidence against it. I just don't remember if I saw it here or on Reddit...

Hmm, after a quick search it looks like the counter evidence was not as compelling as I thought it was. It looks like I was pretty sold on the idea that ettmetal is lithium for a number of reasons. Then @Ari suggested that it's probably cesium because it actually explodes when it comes in contact with water. After a quick Google-powered research session just now, it turns out that lithium reacts too slowly to generate an explosion. Cesium, on the other hand, according to the same source "explodes on contact with water, quite possibly shattering the container". Furthermore, while lithium release more energy per mole, it releases it slowly, and this prevents the spectacular effects we see described in The Bands of Mourning.

In conclusion, I am not firmly sold on ettmetal being cesium, assuming no magical metals are involved.

Cheers for the plug to that older post.

My excited post-read post thinking about group 1 metals might have been a little too enthusiastic in bypassing the possibility of Lerasium, Harmonium, or some other non-Atium godmetal at first, but I did compare the reactivity of the group 1 metals before posting, hence why I jumped straight to Cesium. (Lithium was totally the one that came to mind when I read the book, so I guess great minds think alike in terms of Figbert's conclusion ettmetal was Lithium)

I'm not as sold on Cesium nowadays either, but I'm pretty sure it's either Cesium or some form of godmetal.

[Eki]

For the record, it's probably not lerasium, since lerasium can be eaten without exploding. Could still be a lerasium alloy though, if that changes its properties. (Especially if the other metal is atium, since that would explain why it's volatile)

[Yata he/him]

For his proprieties I really think it's not a Mundane Metal, but a Godmetal... I have to figure How it does what we saw, probably it is the Ettmetal's Feruchemical Power.

[Magestar he/him]

It could just be me, but isn't cesium neary as hard to come by/produce/mine as lithium?  And doesn't it explode when exposed to even the moisture in the air?  I feel like it's properties do not match that of ettmetal's well enough for that to be right.  Cesium is also liquid near room temp, so it seems a little far fetched for it to be the material that we only saw as a solid(if my memory serves). Finally, a society that has dynamite is probably going to have a better way of blowing things up than cesium.

I am a little on the fence about whether it is a godmetal or not.  I think that there are not enough shards for it to be a godmetal, but it might be some kind of alloy.  However, I do not realy feel like I have enough to go on.

[Three1415]

I personally support the idea that the metal is a lerasium/atium alloy (I'm uncertain if that would be equivalent to Harmonium or not); such a mixing of two opposite Investitures would be both quite volatile and would fit with the Allomancy-related tech the Southern Scadrians have.

I find it unlikely some Allomantically-unassociated metal would be used in the manner described for that reason; additionally, it's implied by the pseudo-kandra guy and Edwarn that it has some magical component, and the next book in the series is, after all, called The Lost Metal, which implies a godmetal of some sort. 

[king of nowhere]

wrong thread, sry.  delete this

Edited July 15, 2016 by king of nowhere

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

This gives a fascinating idea about the chemistry of god metals... Could you have an alkali god metal? For that matter, while we know god metals can alloy with things... Can you bond them to strongly electronegative elements and the like, or are they inert? If ettmetal is indeed a god metal but it reacts with water, it apparently isn't very inert at all... It might react with all sorts of things to form weird compounds that aren't pure god metal or god metal alloy but might still do stuff. You know, based on all that, I don't think ettmetal could possibly be a god metal because the chemistry of that, and the resultant magic, would be terrifically confusing and disorderly (and most of Brandon's magic systems have a sort of elegant simplicity to the, despite the complex ways people use them). The implications of a strongly reactive god metal are just problematic... I mean... If we are going to over-analyze this... What even are the structures of an atom of god metal? Are they the "island of stability" or what? Do they invoke some kind of subatomic particle that doesn't exist in normal physics?

But on the subject of existing alkali metals, lithium is a good guess in regard to what naturally is likely to occur as a solid metal... But I think potassium is the only naturally occurring alkali metal that could potentially be used to make an actual bomb, since lithium sort of just fizzes when you put it in water. Cesium has about the right magnitude of explosion, but there is no chance that you would find such an element as a pure compound naturally, so I don't think it's cesium. I mean, it could be a new alkali metal... If god metals are allowed to occupy some kind of aberration on the periodic table, maybe ettmetal is another such anomaly but not a god metal?

 

Hard to say. I have a sneaking suspicion it's just potassium, but it is hard to know one way or another.

 

Also, given that we know ettmetal can do some magical things... Can it be burned for allomancy, spiked for hemalurgy, or made into a metalmind for feruchemy? Another interesting question, which would be hard to answer since

1) there are no mistborn or full feruchemists to test this out

2) if it explodes on contact with water ingesting it for allomancy would probably kill you

the second reason probably means that you can't use it for these things, only to power magical machines.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

On 12/07/2016 at 10:15 AM, Three1415 said:

I personally support the idea that the metal is a lerasium/atium alloy (I'm uncertain if that would be equivalent to Harmonium or not); such a mixing of two opposite Investitures would be both quite volatile and would fit with the Allomancy-related tech the Southern Scadrians have.

I find it unlikely some Allomantically-unassociated metal would be used in the manner described for that reason; additionally, it's implied by the pseudo-kandra guy and Edwarn that it has some magical component, and the next book in the series is, after all, called The Lost Metal, which implies a godmetal of some sort. 

This.