Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

What's this? I can make more people vote for mayors if they want one? Sign me up for that, Mayor Jak/Lopen.

 

Well, it appears that the voting is neck and neck between myself and Meta. Who will be the winning candidate? Stay tuned!

 

Anyways, if I do get voted in as Mayor, I'll make sure to do a bit or RP to commemorate the occasion, but don't expect too much. >> I don't really expect to be voted in, since hardly anyone has said anything positive about me so far(for as much as I've posted, no one has really said much at all about me), but I have 3 votes on me, so it could happen!

[Conquestor he/him]

Well, it appears that the voting is neck and neck between myself and Meta. Who will be the winning candidate? Stay tuned!

 

Anyways, if I do get voted in as Mayor, I'll make sure to do a bit or RP to commemorate the occasion, but don't expect too much. >> I don't really expect to be voted in, since hardly anyone has said anything positive about me so far(for as much as I've posted, no one has really said much at all about me), but I have 3 votes on me, so it could happen!

Unless Stink is drawing you into a trap.   On another note, if Winter is the so suspicious to everyone, why isn't anyone voting for her? You don't say "I think they're the most suspicious", but then vote for someone else. It just doesn't make sense!

[Master Elodin]

I agree, the suspicion on Winter is a little overdone.

[Elbereth she/her]

Right, I managed to get some time, happily. So, lots of thoughts.

First is something of a comment that I wrote up earlier without internet access, in response to Meta's suspicion on Lopen/Sart for being Darkfriend companions. Parts have been made obsolete or already said, but I think it's still worth saying:

Regarding Meta's point againts Lopen - I agree that it's not a very valid point for actual suspicion (regardless of whether it actually is actual suspicion, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't). That seems like a very risky eliminator move at the beginning of the game without much benefit. It's the first cycle. It's not all that likely that we'll actually lynch an eliminator, and if we did but the mayor managed to reverse that, both the lynchee and the mayor would immediately fall under suspicion. Sure, the Mayor may stick around for a few cycles (although I kind of doubt it - particularly since people are definitely going to get paranoid about whoever's currently in power), but as Nyali commented, it seems like more of an endgame thing, at least as far as usefulness to the eliminators go.

Now, the Mayor is useful early game. But I'd argue that it's not so useful for its vote manipulation power, really. It's useful because of the increased attention focused on the Mayor. It's a subject of discussion, for one, and it's a very good way of showing who people trust. And more than that, it puts a lot of responsibility on the Mayor, and we get to see what he/she does with that. In fact, I'd say it'd be almost strategic to elect people we suspect and see what they do with their powers.

I say almost, of course, because putting power into the hands of people we think are our enemies just to see what happens seems... unwise. And plus, we already have a lynch for suspicions. Use that, if you want to accuse someone. This is essentially the opposite: Who do you trust? Which is nearly as useful, I'd say, and having both elections is almost two lynches for the price of one, in a way.

That's as far as I got with that. I was going to go into maybe electing newer players to see what they did with the power, but several people have said similar things, so I won't bother.

Right, onto the multiquotes.

[ Eryn ]

Oh, was Burnt not actually ever Odium's champion? I didn't really look back that closely at the game. Still, I think the point is fair, even if my example isn't a good one.

Yeah, she wasn't. She was a Sharder the whole time. But agreed.

 

I still like Lomion's posts, but I'm retracting my mayoral vote on her. Gladium's post just worries me.

You're not alone... To be fair, it is somewhat typical of Strawman to do something like that.

Doesn't mean I like it.

 

Now, I'm going to make myself unpopular, and speak up for a moment to defend Sart. Now, it's all very well following Kas' excellent tenets, but not everyone does - and I think it is as such necessary to establish that we're going to have a lynch.

Beginning this conversation isn't, in my mind, a lynch-worthy offence. I can recall a great deal of conversations about this in previous games, many of them insitgated by villagers.

If anything, having the conversation creates subject matter for discussion, which enables a more informed lynch.

Now, let's be clear - I think that having a day one lynch as a matter of course is better - and does gain more information. But I don't think it was possible to assume at the start of the game that we were going to have one, so starting a conversation isn't a tactic for diverting conversation - rather, for creating conversation.

Now, regarding the mayor. I'm not sure I support giving more power to a player like Meta or Wilson. Both are widely respected in this subforum, and have illustrious reputations. Hence, we give their views a great deal of thought and value anyway - and also scrutinise them perhaps further. I would advocate giving the mayoralty to a lesser heard player, on the basis of increasing the exposure they receive in the thread, and not giving yet more power over the lynch to already influential players.

Two points from this post. First, the defense of Sart reminded me of a thought I had in his defense somewhat: Sart is a relatively infrequent player, now. He's played five games in all the time I've been here. And when he was playing more, there often actually was discussion of whether to have a D1 lynch. So from that perspective, it's easier to understand why he brought it up.

Do I think that should let him of the hook? No. I don't. It's not a good thing to bring up, and he's probably the person I'm most suspicious of at the moment. But he does have a different perspective, so I can kind of understand why he'd bring that up as a villager. (Also, my point doesn't actually clear him at all, because I'd say from that perspective he'd be equally likely to bring up D1 lynches as an eliminator or a villager. But I thought it was worth pointing out.)

Second. The last part of your post? Agreed. So, so much. We're already looking at active players in the lynch discussion like Meta, Wilson, Lopen, etc. The Mayor role might force some more reluctant or quieter players out of their comfort zone into the spotlight, and I think that would be a lot more revealing. So... hmm. The player I think would be most appropriate for what I'm proposing would be maybe Winter? But at the same time, I find her slightly suspicious, so I'm not currently willing to vote her Mayor (but also unwilling to actually vote for her, since it's slight suspicion). I think I'm going to abstain for now and try to vote tonight when I get on in four hours or so.

Personally, I was intrigued by the conversation about D1 Lynch... because I'm new and I think its important to understand the pro's and con's of something like this when you have never played before.  For you veterans of the game I could see how it would be annoying or seem like a distraction, but for me (and maybe anyone else new?) it wasn't really beating a dead horse so to speak....

 

I've noticed that several people have remained silent so far, and I'm wondering who is lurking in the shadows watching people pointing their fingers at each other, laughing to themselves as they plot the villagers demise....

Fair point. If I were at home, I'd probably be able to find a good discussion and link it to you for reference (or write one up myself inside a spoiler so no one has to read it unless they really want to). Unfortunately, I'm not, for the moment. So if anyone else wants to, please do. Otherwise, anyone who wants to talk about that kind of thing, PM me tonight and we can discuss it individually. (Normally I'd resort to that as the first course of action since that way no one else has to read it, but since there aren't any PMs during the day and the issue will be partly obsolete once night comes, given that the topic is D1 lynches.)

Alv is. He always is. (I don't expect you to understand that reference - he's not playing this game. But he definitely is watching from the shadows and probably laughing to himself, too.)

I guess that's all I can ask for. Though, considering something I was told recently in a dead doc, I was considering playing this game 100% openly and honestly. So, I'll start now: That role claim was a lie. From now on, I will not attempt to mislead or lie to anyone. I may refuse to answer some questions though. Sound good? Good.

Sounds good. I'll still retain paranoia, of course, but I recall that conversation and I'm actually willing to believe that. Maybe. Ish.

I put the first vote on Elbereth, because I think Lomion would be a good mayor. Really though, I respect El as a player and I would like to see what she does with her extra vote. I also like the idea of moving the mayor around, if not every cycle, then every other one. The last reason was that I'm not sure I want Meta to have an extra vote.

I mean... Look at what I did in LG16, when I was a Strongarm. (I only used it twice, once on Lopen and once on Twei. (the particular power changed their vote to my own)) Look at LG17, when I was Well-connected. (Used it twice, both times on Ripple, apparently. I died early that game, though.) Look at MR11. (Well, ish. It was only two-use, I used it once, and that wasn't my choice it was my teammates telling me what to do and me blindly following.) Look at LG18, actually, for a good example. I used it multiple times, never really to great effect or interesting differences. Mostly moving things onto the current undisputed lynch target or someone completely random. I liked moving players' votes onto themselves, and also moving my own vote. Oh, and I actually had four votes that game, but I never used them until I voted for Hael like 18 times in a row because I was irritated at him. (Which I'm not anymore, mostly, because I've gotten to kill him three times since then. That was enough to sate my thirst for vengeance.) That's... about all.

Now, obviously, these are different. They're vote manipulation, rather than an extra vote or a Soothing-type role. Neither of which I've technically had (except in LG18, in which I had Rioting, Soothing, and four votes, kinda), but I think my vote manipulation roles do seem to say I wouldn't do any better with this. I'm willing to try, but... I'm not really sure I'm the best candidate for that. At all.

Yeah.

I think that's enough for the moment. I'll be able to respond to people for another half hour or so, but then I get to go see a play! (Another play, actually! I already saw Great Expectations today, and it was fantastic.) So I'll be back for real around three-four hours from now.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Okay, reading through everything, I'm finding myself particularly paranoid this game... :/ I'm thinking I'm going to vote Nyali for mayor - in a similar vein to Mailliw's vote for Elb, Nyali, while a newer player, as so far seemed to be quite insightful - think they'd make a good mayor, if a villager. I would have said Elb, but I'm wary of her now because of the last QF...

 

Re: Day 1 lynch - if we lynch someone, it 'solidifies' some of the information from the discussion leading up to it - we find out their role/alignment, and we get a better idea of how much players will stand by their claims, if there's a chance of death involved.

 

@Strawman - please actually give reasons for what you do. If you only post like that, I will lynch you. 

 

@Stink - trolling like that (the evil claim) only hurts the village. Please don't do it again...

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Hael. Sorry, you were the first to really fit the circumstances I had decided I'd vote for.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Hael. Sorry, you were the first to really fit the circumstances I had decided I'd vote for.

Curious, what is/was your criteria?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Curious, what is/was your criteria?

Good question. I was going to vote for the next person who discussed D1 lynches again. While there were a few aside from you, they only mentioned others' views on it or the discussion as a whole. None shared their own opinions of it. It's not a strong thing at all, but that's what I planned.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Good question. I was going to vote for the next person who discussed D1 lynches again. While there were a few aside from you, they only mentioned others' views on it or the discussion as a whole. None shared their own opinions of it. It's not a strong thing at all, but that's what I planned.

Eh. Fair enough. 

 

Edit: Oddly enough, it actually makes me lean a little more towards you being village...

Edited June 4, 2016 by Haelbarde

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Eh. Fair enough. 

 

Edit: Oddly enough, it actually makes me lean a little more towards you being village...

I told you, this will be an upfront game for me. 

[Metacognition he/him]

So here's where I'd put everyone after rereading everything:

 

• Amaiya: Please explain your vote on Hael? What circumstances are those? Just saying that there are circumstances doesn't really help the rest of us any. Same with your vote for Lomion for mayor. Saying that you'd like to see what they do with it isn't really a great reason. Why do you not want me to have an extra vote? I get that you're on mobile, which is why I'm not suspicious of you for your terse responses, but a little more would be helpful.
  So many unanswered questions with Amaiya and that's not helping me get a read of them. 
• Cenn: Their concern about maintaining discussion seems a bit forced to me. It's only halfway through the turn and votes can change as new information is figured out. I'm slightly leaning towards Darkfriend, but it contingent on Sarah's alignment to a degree.
• Lomion: A lot of her early posts feel very mimicy and yet, for some reason, she's been getting credit for saying what other people already said. Jak already mentioned PM safety before she did and Kendal already brought up the stuff about Day 1 lynches. Then there's her focus on a mystery role. The fact that she keeps going on about a PM Spying role makes me think that she's either saying this because she knows one exists (likely because she is said role or because a Darkfriend teammate has said role) or because it's easy to contribute advise about a role that doesn't exist and seem to be helping. A large part of the rest of her posts have been about game related things, like figuring out the naming situation, but not specifically about her own suspicions or anything like that. Which makes me very surprised at how much people seem to trust her so far. 
• Nikel Fain: Only one post and it's entirely RP. I'm hoping we'll hear more from him soon, but if I recall correctly, he did say that he wasn't going to be able to get on as much first cycle.
• Eryn: Kind of the same boat as Cenn. Something just feels a little off, but they've been active and trying to figure things out too. Still pretty neutral, IMO. 
• Llewalla: Hasn't said anything yet and hasn't been on since before the game started as is. Difficult to read someone when they haven't done anything at all. 
• Lorien: Not a lot said, but I like how they stuck to their suspicion of Lexaven. Feels fairly Villagery to me. I especially like how they urge people to follow their suspicions up with a vote rather than just stating them. If no one votes, then their suspicions don't mean much. They could always just be saying that they're suspicious without actually being so! 
  While it could be a tactic to try to move votes away from Sarah, even if it is, I approve of this attitude. 
• Ba'Alzamon: I find that people tend to focus on those areas that they have a vested interest in. For example, a Wolfbrother might ask what people's opinions are on Village Night Kills to get a read on where everyone stands in the game. So Ba'Alzamon coming right into the game and saying that we shouldn't worry about the Corrupted makes me think he might be Fain. Conversion roles can quickly overwhelm a Village and we shouldn't just ignore them, IMO. Both are quite a serious threat. Last game, Kas was Good Guy Fain and was luckily found out early, so the Village didn't have to worry about it much. I doubt we'll be so lucky this time. 
• Ana-alline: Hasn't said anything, but has been on in time to see that the game has started. Typical Lurker stuff. 
• M'Hael: Not enough for me to swing either way at the moment. Perhaps a slight Village lean due to him being a little annoyed with Gladium's vote and Phil's trolling.
• Kendal: I put her in the likely Villager pool, because a lot of what she's been saying is stuff I would entirely agree with. But that very thing is what worries me. A lot of her reads seem very natural rather than faked. A lot of what she's said is also very unhelpful to the Darkfriends. They want to help create confusion, not dispel it. 
• Ruon: The way they went after Jak seemed like a Villager trying to figure things out, but they just haven't said enough for me to hold to that opinion.
• Tazrim: Not a lot said, but I'm leaning slightly towards Villager.
• Gladium: Only posted a Mayor vote for Lomion, so not a lot to go off of. Unfortunately, this seems to be pretty typical of him and we're likely not going to get much more out of him....
• Sarah: I think I've already said plenty about why I'm suspicious of Sarah. Doesn't help when people seem to be defending them for little reason. 
• Lexaven: There's only one thing that bothers me about Lexaven. In the beginning, they started by defending me and saying that I'm just playing as I typically do. Then, it turned around and made me suspicious. Until they explain why and how such to diametrically opposed ideas came to be, I'm suspicious. 
• Bugsy: Not a lot said, but their reasons for voting for Sarah seem genuine and Villagery to me. 
• Trafalgar: Hasn't said anything, but has been on after the game has started. 
• Jak: I'm not overtly suspicious of Jak at the moment. There have been some things that have made me suspicious, but there have been plenty of things that make me think that he's a Villager as well. Definitely 50/50 at this point for me. 
• Gunshy: The only thing that popped out to me about Gunshy's post was when they said that Lomion seemed to be playing up the innocence. I don't think that a Darkfriend would likely come up with that idea, so slight Villager lean. 
• Alain: I like their view of how the lynch should work, but that doesn't tell me anything about what they're really thinking this game. Considering I have a slight uneasy feeling about both Cenn and Eryn as well, I feel more inclined to think Villager, but I don't want to be swayed by just him agreeing with me. 
• Cubik: Hasn't said anything, but has been on after the game has started. 
• Phil: Typical Phil; trollish. Can't say one way or the other because there's not really much to get a read off of!
• Brigitte: Mostly a gut read, but their approach to this game seems very Villagery to me. I'm not a fan of how they're still voting for Kendal when they've basically said that they'll remove it. If that's the case, then why not move your vote to someone that you actually find suspicious? It seems to be voting for votings' sake, which worries me.
• Locke: I agree with him that I would much rather see the Mayor go to someone else other than someone like myself or Keland. But, I'd much rather keep it out of the hands of the Darkfriends period. If I were to vote for anyone other than myself, it would likely be Lorien or Alain. Both are people that I suspect are Villagers, but not with enough surety at this point. 
  Considering that's about the only thing that Locke has said (devil's advocate aside), I can't say much about their alignment. They could just be trying to keep the Mayor role out of the hands of players that he knows to be Villagers and make it a little more likely that a Darkfriend could get it after all. 
• Douza: I like that they're looking out for difficulties with the switching Mayors thing. That is definitely something we need to consider. If we don't vote for a Mayor, even the same person whom we've already made Mayor each day turn, then it won't take much for close votes to be swung by just someone late voting someone for Mayor. This is definitely something we need to consider. 
  That said, that's all they've said, which isn't helpful. 

 

And that's everyone. There are a few other things I wouldn't mind addressing, but this took longer than I wanted to begin with. So those will have to wait till later. 

 

EDIT: Bolded names to make it easier to read.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Metacognition

[Mailliw73 he/him]

So, uh, I cleared up one of your questions about me already, Meta. The other, about El, I've already said too. I do want to see what she'll do with it. The Mayor is a publicly responsible role. I'm not opposed to testing people by giving it to them. It works fine in my opinion. I just really don't trust you right now. Sorry. I'm getting a much stronger village read on El.

[Young Bard he/him]

Out of the 3 main contenders for mayor (Lopen, Meta and El), I trust Elbereth/Lomion the most. Lopen, I've already spoken about (and he's answered well, but I'd still like to hold off giving him an extra vote). Meta... I don't know his gamestyle, and he could well be village, but I'd like to get to know his gameplay a bit better and judge for myself.

 

At this stage, without any other hunches at the moment, I'll poke AliasSheep/LLewella, as they haven't posted at all, and they're not a new player. Deathclutch, too, I'd like to hear from. (And Rubik, I'd like you to post as well, if you see this. What are you thinking?)

 

EDIT: Realized DC hadn't posted either.

EDIT II: Made the orange orange-ier.

Edited June 4, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Bard, that's not orange, so I'm not sure Gamma will count it.

[Elbereth she/her]

I'm emotionally drained from the play I just saw (actually, all three plays I've seen in the past two days have been draining due to their moral ambiguity, but this one was particularly intense. It was called Roe, about Roe v. Wade. It was heavy.), and I have a headache, so forgive me if I seem short and snappish.

Okay. Let's make this short, then.

1. Votes. I may not be on tomorrow before turnover (although it's likely I'll be on for a bit in the morning), so I should vote now if I want to vote at all. So... Let's see.

2. Mayor vote. Um. Maill. He's vocal, he participates in lynches, and he would definitely put that power to use. Plus, I trust him to an extent. Does this really fit my criteria for a Mayor from earlier? No, not really. I'd prefer to elect someone newer. But there's no one I trust even a bit that also fits that category, and few people in that category that have even posted. So that's what I'm going with for now. May change my mind in the morning.

3. Lynch vote. Sigh. I think... Sart. I don't suspect him that much, but I suspect him more than I suspect anyone else. And that's enough for a D1 lynch, I think. Plus his death would probably be one of the most useful given how much discussion's happened around him. (Again, vote subject to change if my morning self decides that my tired night self was an idiot.)

4. Meta - I really doubt that the PM spy role exists. I really do. But it's not that hard to at least somewhat protect against that possibility, and I've just seen how bad it can be (twice, given that I just read through LG2 as well). Plus, emphasizing that also puts more emphasis on PM safety, which is a good thing. (Will talk more about that in the morning. I have some about that already written up, but it's not finished and I don't feel like bothering right now, so I'll finish that in the morning.)

5. Also to Meta's point - True, I haven't talked much about my suspicions. (To be fair, I usually don't... Doesn't excuse the behavior, though.) I should do that. Maybe I'll write up my thoughts on players in the morning, too. No promises.

6. I feel like I've been more talkative than I usually am when I'm not traveling... I'm not sure how this happened?

7. Good night. I'm going to bed. (Now. I could stay up and transcribe and finish that roleclaiming thing I wrote earlier. That's possible. If I do, I deserve to be scolded. I need sleep.) Sorry if I sounded irritated. I'm tired.

8. Oh, look, another post. Oh, look another vote on me for Mayor! What the heck. I don't... Ugh. I'm too tired to respond to this, except to note that you gave reasons for not voting for the other candidates, but no actual reasons for voting for me. Mind elaborating?

9. Goodbye.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Young Bard he/him]

8. Oh, look, another post. Oh, look another vote on me for Mayor! What the heck. I don't... Ugh. I'm too tired to respond to this, except to note that you gave reasons for not voting for the other candidates, but no actual reasons for voting for me. Mind elaborating?

 

Eh. The way I see it, my votes could really influence the result if I picked one of 3 candidates. I don't trust you, as such, but I distrust the other 2 more. Once I have more solid leads next turn (hopefully), I'll pick someone for stronger reasons than that.

 

Also, Maill, is that orange enough for you? 

Edited June 4, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Perfect!

 

Edit: Meta, I see you've been on for a while. Sorry to prod, but any particular reason you haven't responded?

Edited June 4, 2016 by Mailliw73

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Even though there's been a good amount of posts since my last post, I don't feel like my reads have changed all that much. Meta posted that large post up above, which is pretty similar to how I feel. Something curious to note, me, Meta and Wilson have all noted that Nyali seems off somehow. I don't really know what that means, since it's only Day 1 and D1 reads are almost always guesses as much as they are logical thinking(at least, in my case ), but it surprised me a little that both Wilson and Meta agreed with me that she seems a bit off.

 

Hael, while you did post already, I'm wondering if you've got any reads yet? Specifically, I'm wondering what you're thinking about each of Sart, Wilson and Meta.

 

Edit: Saw Sheep/Llewella on just a bit ago. I'm surprised you have posted yet. Any reason for your silence so far?

Edited June 4, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Conquestor he/him]

Lorien

About the mayorship, I think it is really a target for the eliminators. I mean extra one extra vote might not seem like much, but it is the difference between two people dying. One other thing about mayorship is that it is that when someone wins, they are not vote for the people that put them in office. This would be a great way to not be lynched and the mayor would make points to move suspicion from their voters. This is because then they would be suspicious themselves. I am voting for Mezal(Meta) because I am less suspicious of him, also, I don't like it when people vote themselves for mayor. It just seems like they could make a better point voting for someone else.

I find everyone that is voting for Lomion(Elbereth)suspicious because of them saying "I agree with her posts" and not putting their opinions forward. I am not actually suspicious of Lomion herself because I think the eliminators are setting her up. I do agree that Eryn(Nyali) is a little off. I say that because of all the opinions she is throwing around, she would say one thing, but then say another that is contradictory to what she just said! I believe that is why she is so suspicious in a subtle way, also, rereading through the forum and I am still suspicious of Lexaven(Winter) , but am more suspicious of Eryn at this point. I don't like Phil Bill(Stink) because of the way he has been acting. I think trolling is funny, every once in a while, but when it is your play style, then that is a little weird. He is also in agreement with Lomion, but is voting for Jak(Lopen). I think he is going to change his two votes close to the end of the cycle, maybe.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Twei - posted a short post. Kind of felt like an evil post somehow, like she was just trying to post something rather than actually searching for an eliminator.

That's exactly what I was doing. Read between the lines here to find out why.

 

My thoughts on Sart: Elb pointed out that Sart is used to a meta where the 'whether to lynch' discussion is common. With that in mind, him bringing it up to me reads more as a villager trying to kickstart discussion than an eliminator trying to distract.

 

 

Hey guys! I exist! Anyways, I don't completely trust Wilson because she seems like she's trying to draw suspicion towards others without actually saying much herself. Also I think that we should focus less on the corrupted right now and more on the Darkfriends, since they are more of a threat at the moment.

 

Elodin, for the reason Meta pointed out. It's D1; the village perspective is basically "You're suspicious!" with no faction qualification until something else happens to inform it. You bringing it up suggests it's important to you.

Hey guys! I exist! Anyways, I don't completely trust Wilson because she seems like she's trying to draw suspicion towards others without actually saying much herself. Also I think that we should focus less on the corrupted right now and more on the Darkfriends, since they are more of a threat at the moment.

 

[jaimeleecee she/her]

[*]Brigitte: Mostly a gut read, but their approach to this game seems very Villagery to me. I'm not a fan of how they're still voting for Kendal when they've basically said that they'll remove it. If that's the case, then why not move your vote to someone that you actually find suspicious? It seems to be voting for votings' sake, which worries me.

I'm pretty sure I made it clear that it was a vote for the sake of voting more so to get the discussion going earlier, I hadn't changed it yet because it wasn't necessary it's not hurting Keland because the focus for multiple votes have been on others. I haven't decided who I am truely voting for yet. I didn't have time yesterday evening to post anyway, I started a couple of them and got caught up in something at home before I could finish it.. By the time I got back to it there were 10 more to read first and I just kept getting caught up in other things. Now that we only have 12 hours left it's a little different I will remove it to remove the chance of my one vote causing something I didn't intend but yesterday I didn't think there was a rush to get it off...

[Master Elodin]

I said the part about the corrupted because in my opinion a faction that is more threatening and easier to detect is more dangerous than a conversion one that starts out at one and increases slowly. It's why in LG21 we didn't immediately focus on Autonomy.

[AliasSheep]

Hello all.  Aye Lopen, I did log in earlier - I saw how long the thread was and then went back to stressing over exams.

 

Anyway, I've read through the thread, and the discussion over the Mayor... intruiges me.   I'm of the opinion that it is quite an important role, and really do not want the eliminators to have that spot.  The chances for manipulating the lynch are too many for me to be comfortable with it (this is from the perspective of someone just coming out of a game where clever vote manipulation won my team the game).  Thus, I've been quite suspicious of Sart.  Their ideas for choosing a mayor seem very convenient.  To sum up my thoughts: We can't confirm that they are actually using RNG, meaning they can actually just choose whoever they want and claim the RNG chose for them, thus deflecting suspicion if an eliminator gets the power.  This also allows them oppurtunities for putting eliminators in power with the Mayor role.  They're also downplayed the importance of the role, which further serves to increase my suspicion.  Orlok and El have also raised similar points.  Not using RNG, that is, but putting the Mayor role in the hands of someone other than one we already signifigantly trust.  El is guilty of this to a greater extent, and I'm not comfortable with her idea of giving the role to a suspected Eliminator (though she does bring up the issues with that in her post.

 

I'm also suspicious of Lopen for two reasons.  He, like Sart, downplays the important of the Mayor, yet votes for himself?  This could very easily get him the role (by making people less wary of voting for him as Mayor).  He also uses the defence of "If I was X I wouldn't do A, and I've done A, so I can't be X".  Which is an awful defence, seems incredibly suspicious, and I last saw used by Aman in LG21, who was an eliminator.

 

I'm wondering on the possibility of not having a Mayor at all, at least this early in the game.  It gives a lot of sway to people we can't be overly sure of, and I'm much prefer to give the power later on to someone who I trust (the list of which currently containing no one).  Of course, we also run the risk then of giving the eliminator the same power, supposing we were wrong about trusting them.  Still unsure on this, and I need to think more about it to properly clarify my thoughts on the matter.

 

StrawMan is of course, immediately suspicious by how he posts supporting El for Mayor with no supporting evidence.  Which leads onto El's seemingly rather flustered attempt at avoiding being made Mayor.  Given how she's spoken about the Mayor role putting spotlight on the player who gets it, I can see why she'd want to avoid it - if she was an eliminator.  Of course, she makes reasonable points about her not being good with vote manip roles, but as she stated herself, those are different kinds of roles. 

 

Now, the voting at the moment is, if I remember correctly (and I probably haven't), predominantly leaning towards Sart.  As much as I'm suspicious of Sart, I'm also suspicious to around the same levels of Lopen.  For the reason, I'm going to vote for Lopen, and hope that some good discussion comes of it.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

This is a game of mafia. The village doesn't win if the village isn't willing to lynch. I think it's pointless to go into a game of mafia wondering "Hm. I'm not sure if I want to lynch on the first day. I mean, I just don't know anything!" If you have that attitude, you'll never know anything.

I completely agree, Wilson, that the advantages of a day one lynch significantly outweigh the disadvantages, but that's not the point I was making. What I was saying is that it was impossible to assume that everyone else agrees with this. And the evidence from a host of previous games runs in line with this statement - there has been a marked opposition in many games played to the day one lynch. Sart, therefore, can't be seen as seeking to avoid the day one lynch through creating superfluous conversation - instead, to my mind, he sought to have the issue addressed swiftly - a prerequisite for actually having the discussion.

As for the Mayor role. I agree that it would be best for the Mayor to not be someone with a reputation, but I'm not voting for Meta because of any rep or his intelligence as a player or anything like that. I voted for Meta purely because he's my best lead for a villager. That's it. That's what I care about when it comes to voting people for Mayor. I don't care to make the same mistake I made in the first run by voting the Darkfriend Channeler as Mayor, even if it's only for a cycle. Could we vote in a newer player that we don't know as well? Sure, we could. Want to know the kind of team Gamma had as eliminators in the first game? None of them had played more than 2 games. I don't trust Gamma because he's a troll. So no, I'm not going to vote on someone willy-nilly just to see what they'll do with the mayor position. I'm voting on my best guess for a villager.

Wilson, again, you create a strawman - a misrepresentation of the argument I put. I didn't say that we should vote for people based on their intelligence or reputation, rather that we should avoid doing so - for we gain nothing in terms of additional scrutiny, and simultaneously lose the benefit of scrutiny for another player. In my mind, at least, this advantage is worth sacrificing your additional 8 points of trust in Meta.

Finally, your final point is to me, nonsensical. Yes, Gamma went with an unconventional team last time. He may well have done so again this game. But there is absolutely no reason to distrust all newer players because of his actions last game - which is the implication of your refusal to vote for a newer player.

[Master Elodin]

Hello all. Aye Lopen, I did log in earlier - I saw how long the thread was and then went back to stressing over exams.

Anyway, I've read through the thread, and the discussion over the Mayor... intruiges me. I'm of the opinion that it is quite an important role, and really do not want the eliminators to have that spot. The chances for manipulating the lynch are too many for me to be comfortable with it (this is from the perspective of someone just coming out of a game where clever vote manipulation won my team the game). Thus, I've been quite suspicious of Sart. Their ideas for choosing a mayor seem very convenient. To sum up my thoughts: We can't confirm that they are actually using RNG, meaning they can actually just choose whoever they want and claim the RNG chose for them, thus deflecting suspicion if an eliminator gets the power. This also allows them oppurtunities for putting eliminators in power with the Mayor role. They're also downplayed the importance of the role, which further serves to increase my suspicion. Orlok and El have also raised similar points. Not using RNG, that is, but putting the Mayor role in the hands of someone other than one we already signifigantly trust. El is guilty of this to a greater extent, and I'm not comfortable with her idea of giving the role to a suspected Eliminator (though she does bring up the issues with that in her post.

I'm also suspicious of Lopen for two reasons. He, like Sart, downplays the important of the Mayor, yet votes for himself? This could very easily get him the role (by making people less wary of voting for him as Mayor). He also uses the defence of "If I was X I wouldn't do A, and I've done A, so I can't be X". Which is an awful defence, seems incredibly suspicious, and I last saw used by Aman in LG21, who was an eliminator.

I'm wondering on the possibility of not having a Mayor at all, at least this early in the game. It gives a lot of sway to people we can't be overly sure of, and I'm much prefer to give the power later on to someone who I trust (the list of which currently containing no one). Of course, we also run the risk then of giving the eliminator the same power, supposing we were wrong about trusting them. Still unsure on this, and I need to think more about it to properly clarify my thoughts on the matter.

StrawMan is of course, immediately suspicious by how he posts supporting El for Mayor with no supporting evidence. Which leads onto El's seemingly rather flustered attempt at avoiding being made Mayor. Given how she's spoken about the Mayor role putting spotlight on the player who gets it, I can see why she'd want to avoid it - if she was an eliminator. Of course, she makes reasonable points about her not being good with vote manip roles, but as she stated herself, those are different kinds of roles.

Now, the voting at the moment is, if I remember correctly (and I probably haven't), predominantly leaning towards Sart. As much as I'm suspicious of Sart, I'm also suspicious to around the same levels of Lopen. For the reason, I'm going to vote for Lopen, and hope that some good discussion comes of it.

That does make quite a bit of sense. The only thing I disagree with you about is Straw, as his behaviour is nearly always trollish and unhelpful. However, due to the analysis and reasoning above, I will also place my vote on Lopen. Edited June 4, 2016 by Master Elodin