Odium on Scadrial?

[Eki]

Odium is more knowledgeable, I think that's his biggest advantage (regardless of if he truly is opposing Harmony at the moment). I don't think he has absorbed power from the other shards, since apparently he doesn't want his Intent changed. Absorbing even pieces of other shards would probably do that.

[Rasarr she/her]

Regardless of that, I'm also wondering how Odium can even affect the world if Harmony is truly so much more powerful. What if Odium is just a naturally more powerful Shard, or what if it absorbed power from the other Shards it has killed and splintered?

 

Harmony is probably not "much" more powerful. Odium is pretty much uninvested in Braize, while Ruin and Preservation spent a lot of themselves in creation of Scadrial and humans there. It could be that Odium is scared of Harmony because his usual enemies (Aona, Skai, Honor) were somewhat invested, and therefore at, say, 0.8 of Odium's power, whereas Harmony could be something like 1.2 or 1.4. Seeing how Odium has already faced and destroyed two Shards on one world, going up against someone 1.4 times more powerful than it might not be such insurmountable odds. Odium's fear may come from the fact that so far, he's only faced Shards weakened by being Invested - think of a bully who suddenly learns there's a new kid on the block that's capable of fighting back.

 

Also, doesn't Odium actually work through Invested pawns, such as Paalm or Fakeless Immortals? For them, slipping into Harmony's sphere of influence is probably not much harder than for someone like that Terriswoman nurse to slip into Endowment's on Nalthis.

[Vissy]

Wait, Terriswoman nurse on Nalthis? Where did you read that? I've read Warbreaker and didn't see anything like that. Maybe I just forgot?

 

Endowment, too. I wonder what happened there. So much I don't know even after reading all of the books. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Varangian

[natc]

Sazed's personality has also definitely changed from what we can see, so the intents will be interfering by now. Harmony can't really do too much while "hate" is so general and unrestrictive it's not even funny.

[Voidus]

Sazed's personality has also definitely changed from what we can see, so the intents will be interfering by now. Harmony can't really do too much while "hate" is so general and unrestrictive it's not even funny.

He can do a fair bit if Odium starts doing Odium type stuff, they're pretty good opposing forces.

[Vissy]

If Sazed just taps into his Ruin side, he should be able to do something other than just holding Odium back. But then, Sazed might not know how to actually hurt a soul, splinter it or otherwise, or how to kill a Shard. That lack of knowledge could hold him back. It's very Sazed-like.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Varangian

[Pathfinder]

I think Odium's fear is Harmony's power but also what Harmony represents. If Harmony was able to pick up two shards, why not a third? Then a fourth, fifth, and so on. Odium seems like he wants to shatter other shards so he is the only top dog, and doesn't have to pick up any other shards to do it. Now he has an opponent that not only has picked up more than one, can operate with both, but is also a new unknown factor. Odium knows the other shardholders. Knows their personalities, their history, and how they work. Sazed is an unknown. 

[Stormgate he/him]

If Odium attacked, Harmony would have more Preservation-type powers, since he needs to sustain the balance.

[Vissy]

If so, then Harmony shouldn't be in any trouble - assuming that Odium can't just sit there and chip away at his power until he wins. If that is even possible. Harmony is agreed to be more powerful than Odium, therefore he should be able to hold off even a full assault and still have power left to manage other things.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Varangian

[Pathfinder]

If so, then Harmony shouldn't be in any trouble - assuming that Odium can't just sit there and chip away at his power until he wins. If that is even possible. Harmony is agreed to be more powerful than Odium, therefore he should be able to hold off even a full assault and still have power left to manage other things.

An enemy that although defended is stationary and knows not what you do, is a vulnerable enemy for he or she will have limited resources and cannot predict or counter what you will bring to bear. Isolating Harmony, when he is more powerful than Odium is exactly the thing Odium should be doing. 

[Rasarr she/her]

Isolating Harmony, when he is more powerful than Odium is exactly the thing Odium should be doing. 

 

Wouldn't that be what he's doing already? There is a WoB that something's deliberately obscuring Harmony's "vision", preventing him from learning more about Cosmere stuff, and I can't think of anyone beside Odium and Trell (if they're different beings) doing that, or having power to do that.

[Pathfinder]

Wouldn't that be what he's doing already? There is a WoB that something's deliberately obscuring Harmony's "vision", preventing him from learning more about Cosmere stuff, and I can't think of anyone beside Odium and Trell (if they're different beings) doing that, or having power to do that.

That was my point. Varangian stated that Harmony wouldn't be in any trouble and it would be simple for Harmony to deal with Odium. I was showing how effective Odium's strategy is. 

[Vissy]

The ease of Odium's defeat would only come about in a direct conflict. If Harmony doesn't know enough to be effective, however, the disparity in power becomes negligible. 

 

That being said, Odium's strategy requires a lot of time. So far, he doesn't seem to have a direct way of hurting Harmony without getting hurt himself (a strategy that can only lead to his own demise). That's why he is stalling, looking for another way to deal with him. 

 

Interested to see how Harmony will deal with the threat.

[Blackhoof]

If everyone has some of Preservation (and thus Harmony) inside them, would killing them weaken him? The Svrakiss/Voidspren/Fakeless Immortals seem to want to commit omnicide against Scadrial, maybe that is Odium's plan to overcome Harmony?

[Jondesu he/him]

If everyone has some of Preservation (and thus Harmony) inside them, would killing them weaken him? The Svrakiss/Voidspren/Fakeless Immortals seem to want to commit omnicide against Scadrial, maybe that is Odium's plan to overcome Harmony?

Nah, that Investiture should return to him just like the Investiture used for Allomancy. If the population grows, he'll probably weaken a bit, but I doubt it's too significant.

jW

[Yata he/him]

Nah, that Investiture should return to him just like the Investiture used for Allomancy. If the population grows, he'll probably weaken a bit, but I doubt it's too significant.

jW

Yeah in the end is more probably that a Massacre would give a boost to Harmony (a quite meaningless amount).

[Vissy]

What if you just straight-up shot the planet with a laser beam a lá the Death Star? Would the resident Shard be able to stop that, or would the planet be destroyed? (That means the Shard regains its Investiture).

[CaptainRyan he/him]

What if you just straight-up shot the planet with a laser beam a lá the Death Star? Would the resident Shard be able to stop that, or would the planet be destroyed? (That means the Shard regains its Investiture).

 

I would imagine that Harmony is more powerful than any moon... erm, space station. The partial power of Preservation was enough for Rashek to move the entire planet - Sazed (Harmony) has the full power of Preservation and Ruin; crunching up a space station or deflecting a laser beam is probably (relatively) easy for him. 

 

Otoh, what if someone built a massive asteroid entirely out of aluminium and launched that at Scadrial? Could Harmony stop/deflect/destroy a massive aluminium kinetic energy weapon?

Oh, and uhhh, on topic, I think Odium is definitely bidding his time with Harmony. A direct attack on an unknown Vessel that wields two Shards of Adonalsium seems... ill-advised. Odium did not make it this long, and shatter so many Shards, by being hasty or unprepared.

[HoidGoodfellow]

After reading all of your comments (belatedly), Sazed could indeed kick Odium's This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules. Whatever is happening in Scadrial at the moment (Odium or not), Sazed will handle it.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 4/28/2016 at 6:49 PM, CaptainRyan said:

Otoh, what if someone built a massive asteroid entirely out of aluminium and launched that at Scadrial? Could Harmony stop/deflect/destroy a massive aluminium kinetic energy weapon?

Given that he has the power to move planets, he can maneuver something else to knock the aluminum projectile off course if he can't move the aluminum on it's own.

Or he could just move Scadrial out of the way, come to think of it.

[J. Grimm he/him]

On 4/19/2016 at 4:07 PM, Pathfinder said:

That was my point. Varangian stated that Harmony wouldn't be in any trouble and it would be simple for Harmony to deal with Odium. I was showing how effective Odium's strategy is. 

I completely missed this. Where was this in the Diagram?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

47 minutes ago, J. Grimm said:

I completely missed this. Where was this in the Diagram?

It isn't. He's talking about Varangian, a user on the forums. (Now named Vissy, apparently)

On 4/19/2016 at 0:37 PM, Varangian said:

If so, then Harmony shouldn't be in any trouble - assuming that Odium can't just sit there and chip away at his power until he wins. If that is even possible. Harmony is agreed to be more powerful than Odium, therefore he should be able to hold off even a full assault and still have power left to manage other things.

[CosmereAvair]

What if Odium is scared of Harmony because his investiture is the opposite of hate, and could easily corrupt his Shardic intent.  Hence Odium is using trell(Autonomy?) to separate Sazed from his shards because Autonomy is the opposite of Harmony. AKA we could be witnessing rock paper scissors on a cosmere scale.