Braize = Yolen

[Young Bard he/him]

Well, with an 11,000 year time lapse.

 

I have to admit, this is more of a hunch than a proper theory. My sources:

 

Exhibit A: http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1108#6

 

 

SIR JERRIC

Has Hoid ever visited the planet Braize?

BRANDON SANDERSON

[sing-song, delighted] RAFO. Such a big RAFO! The biggest RAFO!

 

Exhibit B: (SH spoilers)

 

“Other planets,” she repeated gently. “Yes, there are dozens of them. Many are inhabited by people much like you or me. There is an original, shrouded and hidden somewhere in the cosmere. I’ve yet to find it, but I have found stories.

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2016-01-28). Mistborn: Secret History (Kindle Locations 937-938). Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC. Kindle Edition. 

So, we know that Hoid having visited Braize (or not) is somehow massively important to the Cosmere Cycle, and we know that Khriss, the "most knowledgeable person about the Cosmere we've met" doesn't know where Yolen is. My theory, assembled on much too little sleep, is that Yolen and Braize are one and the same.

 

Thoughts? Any reasons why my theory is either plausible or impossible? Thanks!

[Ari he/him]

It certainly has some good explanatory power for why there are legends about being exiled from the tranquiline halls. (although if the Liar preview chapters are set on Yolen, that seems like either some huge glorification of that planet, or that it would have to have become a lot better by the end of Dragonsteel)

 

That said, it's equally plausible that there are plenty of other reasons for Hoid visiting Braize to be a RAFO, including a bunch of other interesting possibilities about what Braize was like during the past. So right now I think this qualifies as one of those "cool really out there theories".

[imriel452]

Hoid could easily visit to determine what is going on in Braize - we know that there are three planets within the Greater Rosharan System, including Braize and Ashyn, so it makes sense that Braize, with Odium being tied there, is the epitome of Hell for them.

 

As for Yolen, it is too important a planet to be anything other than just Yolen, IMHO.

 

As for being expelled from the Tranquiline Halls - it makes sense that humanity has a race memory, passed down through generations of being forced to leave an idyllic place due to the actions of powerful beings.

[Yata he/him]

Hoid could easily visit to determine what is going on in Braize - we know that there are three planets within the Greater Rosharan System, including Braize and Ashyn, so it makes sense that Braize, with Odium being tied there, is the epitome of Hell for them.

This three planets are the only ones in Great Roshar with life, but there are other planets in that System

Edited March 7, 2016 by Yata

[Observer]

It certainly has some good explanatory power for why there are legends about being exiled from the tranquiline halls. (although if the Liar preview chapters are set on Yolen, that seems like either some huge glorification of that planet, or that it would have to have become a lot better by the end of Dragonsteel)

 

Kaladin talks extensively in both Stormlight books about how people will always long for the days before, even if said days involved carrying bridges to their deaths or really nasty squadmates. People will always talk about "the good old days" even if they really weren't that great. I imagine the Halls is the same principle on a larger scale.

[Ardjet]

I like this theory and concept. It could also help explain why Roshar is bursting at the seams with Investiture, being so close to "the source".

[Runyan Firetree]

Not sure if this impacts OP's theory either way:

 

Ym from one of the Stormlight interludes mentions his religion holds that his people are part of a "Long Trail" of which they are currently in the "Fourth Land".  Assuming this alludes to post-shattering human migration then there's room for one to two other planets in the migration steps depending how you count Yolen as the starting point:

 

0 - Yolen

First Land - Yolen or first destination post-shattering

Second - ??

Third - Tranquil Halls

Fourth - Roshar

[Pagerunner he/him]

Doesn't make sense to me. Assuming Hoid and Frost are writing each other Letters, and Frost is on Yolen*, then it means Hoid was writing a letter to someone on Braize asking for help with Odium, who is trapped on Braize.

 

Actually, when I put it like that, it does kind of make sense. Let me try that again:

 

If Frost is on the world Odium is trapped on, I wouldn't expect that Odium would let him run around free, sending letters to Hoid and running the 17th Shard. Frost and Rayse know each other, so I don't think Rayse would ignore him the way Ruin ignores Kelsier in Secret History.

 

Now, what about other worlds that could possibly be Yolen renamed? I think it's a great idea that Yolen is hidden because it was renamed - Khriss has found it, she just doesn't know it! I had been considering this possibility already, and here's what I had come up with:

• Roshar and Scadrial don't have room for dragons. I think we have confirmation that there are no other major landmasses on Roshar, and Scadrial is getting well-enough explored that I don't think there's room for dragons or a third race there.
• Minor Shardworlds are lame. I don't think it would be a minor Shardworld like Ashyn, First of the Sun, or Threnody, although I can't definitively rule them out. Maybe it's because I suspect Odium first Shattered another Shard on Yolen, causing the remaining Shards to disperse, or maybe it's just because it would be a total letdown.
• Taldain is tidally locked, so I think that disqualifies it unless something catastrophic happened to Yolen to make it like that.
• Sel was a place that Odium visited. I don't like speculating on what wasn't said, but it didn't mention a return to Sel, so I don't think Sel can be Yolen.
• Nalthis is a big world, which we don't know a lot about yet. Still a possibility.
• Vax is a neverending source of frustration to the community, and just typing the name gets me so upset since we don't know anything about the planet at all. It's definitely on the top of my list.

But eventually, I decided that I didn't think Yolen was renamed to another planet. Brandon has cited Asimov's Robot/Galactic Empire/Foundation megaseries as an inspiration for the Cosmere, and one of the Foundation books is about the search for the lost homeworld of humanity: Earth. I think Brandon will give us a hunt-for-Yolen in the last Mistborn trilogy that will be reminiscent of Foundation and Earth, which would preclude it just being another planet that's been renamed. (Then again, Second Foundation was all about hiding the second Foundation in plain sight at the old Galactice capital planet, so renaming Yolen as another planet is also thematically relevant.)

 

*Frost is not a worldhopper, which Brandon defined as anyone who has been to another world. He is also a dragon, which is one of the three races native to Yolen. Frost is from Yolen, and he hasn't left.

[Ari he/him]

Kaladin talks extensively in both Stormlight books about how people will always long for the days before, even if said days involved carrying bridges to their deaths or really nasty squadmates. People will always talk about "the good old days" even if they really weren't that great. I imagine the Halls is the same principle on a larger scale.

 

I don't disagree.

[MikeBridgeFour]

What if Braize isn't Yolen, but a part of Yolen? What if the act of splintering Adonalsium split the planet and Roshar and Blaize are the two largest pieces. They might not have been the largest pieces originally. Honor and Cultivation might have created Roshar by assembling some of the pieces into their new world, while Odium could have done the same for Braize. Rayse being less inclined to make his world a pleasant place to live could have created a world that seems like damnation to most who view it.

This would make Yolen much harder for Khriss to find than just simply renaming it.

While we don't know much about Braize, there are many things we know about Roshar.

Roshar is an obviously artificially created world or at least artificially manipulated world which might not mean much since most shardworlds should show signs of less than natural forces in them. But of all the worlds we've seen so far, Roshar seems to me to have the largest discrepancies between it and a naturally formed planet. 

Roshar is the only world that I know of that has splinters of Adonalsium in it as Brandon has stated that some of the spren came from him and predate the ones of Honor and Cultivation. His spren being there makes sense if it was Yolen at one point.

In the Stormlight Archives, the chapter epigraphs all seem to be from writings done on Roshar except the letters. You have quotes from Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, quotes from Navani's journal, writings from the diagram, collected death throes that have been recorded, listener songs, etc. The letter in WoKs that Hoid writes could fit this since Hoid could have written it while on Roshar. What if all the epigraphs are written words from the world of Roshar? If this is true, it would mean that the second letter, the one in WoR, was written on Roshar. And if that letter is from Frost, a confirmed non-worldhopper, it would imply that Frost is on Roshar and has always been on Roshar. This would fit with Roshar having once been part of Yolen. It would also explain how Hoid gets the letters to and from Frost since they are on the same planet.

This is just another theory with both pros and cons and it seems likely to me that whatever theories we come up with, Brandon will still find a way to surprise us.

[AnikoliNightmareVision she/her]

But what about three native sapient races on Yolen? If Roshar is a part of Yolen how it would match? I think Listeners were there on Roshar before humans, so my conclusion is that Listeners are from Adonalsium. Then they don't fit in three races that are/were on Yolen which implicate that Roshar is not a part of Yolen.

[MikeBridgeFour]

The listeners could be one of the three races of Yolen with humans and dragons being the other two. If this is the case and my assumption of Frost being on Roshar because of the letter, then all three races are on Roshar. As to the listeners predating humanity on Roshar, that could simply be because they predated humanity on Yolen or it could mean that they survived the splintering of Yolen and the humans didn't and had to be created or brought there by Honor or Cultivation. Or maybe when Yolen was splintered the listeners were on the part that ended up forming Roshar while the humans were on a different part.

My theory could easily be wrong but I haven't found anything that directly refutes it yet. If anyone can find something that makes the theory not work, please let me know so I can move on to a different theory.

[Pagerunner he/him]

The third race on Yolen is something called "Shodel." We don't have any other info on them, so it might just be another name for Parshendi.

 

Source: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7051-philadelphia-wor-signing-reports/?p=116457

 

EDIT: Also, I doubt Frost is on Roshar. In the WoR Letter, he asks Hoid: "Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint." If he was on Roshar, I don't think he'd be referring to it as "that place."

Edited March 10, 2016 by Pagerunner

[AnikoliNightmareVision she/her]

I think in a Liar of Partinel chapter was mentioned that third race and I think it is not even similar to Listeners, but maybe I am wrong. We probably need some more cosmere-aware sharder that knows more about this to confirm or deny it.

[MikeBridgeFour]

You're right, Pagerunner. That line from the letter does imply that he is elsewhere. I thought I was onto something with the fact that all the epigraphs seemed to have been written on Roshar. Maybe instead they were all either written or read on Roshar which means that we can conclude nothing about where the letter was written.

 

That does not mean that Roshar could not still be part of a splintered Yolen but it does pull some of the support for the theory away.

[Jondesu he/him]

The third race on Yolen is something called "Shodel." We don't have any other info on them, so it might just be another name for Parshendi.

Source: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7051-philadelphia-wor-signing-reports/?p=116457

EDIT: Also, I doubt Frost is on Roshar. In the WoR Letter, he asks Hoid: "Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint." If he was on Roshar, I don't think he'd be referring to it as "that place."

He could simply be asking Hoid to leave Alethkar, and the other places on that landmass. Do we have confirmation that there's no other land masses outside of the one continent and the smaller island around it, btw? I can't think of where Frost could reasonably be holed up if so.

jW

[Young Bard he/him]

Do any of you know whether we have confirmation that Frost didn't leave the planet? 

Edited March 12, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Jondesu he/him]

Do any of you know whether we have confirmation that Frost didn't leave the planet?

I can't track it down at the moment, but there's a WoB saying Frost is one of the most Cosmere-aware characters that isn't a worldhopper, so that's pretty good confirmation overall.

jW

[Pagerunner he/him]

Here's the quote that Frost isn't a worldhopper:

 

Q: Third, what non-worldhopper character we've seen so far is the most cosmere-savy?

 

A: Frost or Sazed, most likely.

 

And here's Brandon's definition of a worldhopper:

 

Q: In your mind, what would constitute a Worldhopper? Is it someone who makes a single trip between worlds (for example, the exodus from Yolen - not that it was an exodus, but a single trip), multiple trips between worlds (such as Hoid), or simply leaving a particular world?

 

A: Here's the thing. I would call anyone who is aware that there are multiple worlds in the Cosmere and has visited more than one a Worldhopper.

 

Q: Do they actually have to have made it to a second world?

 

A: I think that... You're getting at people like- I would say they are a Worldhopper kind-of, but not fully. They're kind of...

 

Kurk: The Doctor's companion?

 

A: Yeah, the Doctor's companion type thing. I would define a Worldhopper as someone who has been to another world. I would call someone who has not actually been to another world "Cosmere-aware" but not necessarily a Worldhopper.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Pagerunner

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Hm... Just out of curiosity, do we have any ironclad reason to believe Frost isn't a shardholder?

Also this theory is quite interesting although maybe a little out there. It isn't impossible though.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

Hm... Just out of curiosity, do we have any ironclad reason to believe Frost isn't a shardholder?

Yeah, Frost could be a shard who stayed on Yolen. We know shards can write (Sazeds letter too Spook). That could also be why Hoid asks him for help with Rayse; Frost has the powers to defeat him.

But if Frost is a shard on Yolen, Yolen cant be Braize. I cannot inagine Odium letting another shard stay on Braize. Unless Frost is terribly efficient at hiding.

[Argel he/him]

Hmm, interesting theory.  I wonder why Khriss and others could have such a hard time finding it but the heralds can apparently travel between it with ease. Also, would Frost really be hanging out with Odium? Seems extremely dangerous. Also, not sure if Brandon wants that level of crossover between series -- thinking DragonSteel later on.

 

[goody153]

 

4 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Yeah, Frost could be a shard who stayed on Yolen. We know shards can write (Sazeds letter too Spook). That could also be why Hoid asks him for help with Rayse; Frost has the powers to defeat him.

But if Frost is a shard on Yolen, Yolen cant be Braize. I cannot inagine Odium letting another shard stay on Braize. Unless Frost is terribly efficient at hiding.

Yeah if frost is a shard i highly doubt any shard who isn't working with Odium can actually get close to him, no way he's hyped that well by multiple people in cosmere about being ridiculously dangerous and somebody casually closing in with him.(i mean we already know at this point Odium is the most dangerous shard around and probably the most dangerous entity in the entire cosmere aside from Harmony). And it would also invalidate WoB about only having 3 shards in Roshar system which is already confirmed Odium, Honor and Cultivation. There might also be something really weird going on in Roshar that i suspect getting in as a shard is as hard as getting out.

[Pathfinder]

It sucks that I suck at looking up WoB, but I could have sworn there was one that explicitly says Frost does not hold a shard, which is why everyone is trying to theorize whether it is him being a dragon, or some other reason for his immortality. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well I mean we aren't really sure how Hoid is immortal either... Those two are sort of anomalies from before the shattering. It is interesting that Frost isn't a worldhopper though... Perhaps he refuses to worldhop because of his belief nonintervention?

 

Either way, Braize could be Yolen but I'm not sure we have very much reason to believe that it is likely... Still a cool theory though. Would be neat if it actually came true.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Drake Marshall