[SH spoilers] New Vessel for Elantris Shards?

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

It's now known from The Letter in WoK that the two Shards on Sel, Devotion and Dominion, were shattered by Odium at some point in the past.  The result of this has been catastrophic, with the magic systems left unstable.

 

In light of the insight we get from the original Mistborn trilogy:

 

Sazed was able to not only pick up a Shard dropped by a former Vessel, but he was able to combine two Shards, Preservation and Ruin, into one new Shard, Harmony.

 

A WoB indicates that this new Shard, Harmony, would be dropped should something happen to Sazed.

 

Now, with the release of Mistborn: Secret History:

 

We see what appear to be Elantrians set up in the Cognitive Realm near Scadrial with the intention of obtaining the Shard from Preservation.

 

I'm curious if the two shards on Elantris are reclaimable again.

 

My guess would be probably not, or else...

 

the Elantrians would have done it already instead of travelling to Scadrial to get another one.

 

But, does this mean it is impossible for the power of the Elantrian Shards to be claimed again in a new Vessel?

 

I just get this feeling that a part of the overarching cosmere story will be an eventual quest to combine the Shards again, reversing the Shattering of Adonalsium in an effort to create a force strong enough to defeat whatever lingering evil is building in the background.

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

Devotion and Dominion were Splintered. Preservation and Ruin were not, which was why they were able to be picked up. I think it's been said that in their current state, Devotion and Dominion cannot be just picked up. Additionally, the two Splintered Shards "combined" into what is known as the Dor. I think it would be very difficult to pick up Devotion and Dominion, especially separately. Someone asked once if Devotion and Dominio's Splinters could be Forged back together, but I think it was RAFO'd.

[The Sovereign he/him]

Devotion and Dominion were Splintered. Preservation and Ruin were not, which was why they were able to be picked up. I think it's been said that in their current state, Devotion and Dominion cannot be just picked up. Additionally, the two Splintered Shards "combined" into what is known as the Dor. I think it would be very difficult to pick up Devotion and Dominion, especially separately. Someone asked once if Devotion and Dominio's Splinters could be Forged back together, but I think it was RAFO'd.

 

The short answer is yes, they can be "reforged" but I suspect the mixing of the splintered shards and the fact that their power resides in the Cognitive Realm rather than the Spiritual Realm would complicate the process.

 

Relevent WoB:

 

Interview: Feb 12th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - Mason Wheeler (Paraphrased)

Mason Wheeler

You've said that Splintering a shard is essentially the same thing as the shattering of Adonalsium, repeated on a smaller scale.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler

And a while ago, someone asked you if Splintering was permanent or reversible, and you said that it can be reversed.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler

And shard holders tend to take the name of the shard they hold. So you've got Sazed, who goes by "Harmony" now, after taking up Ruin and Preservation. That makes me wonder, does he hold two shards... or one?

Brandon Sanderson

You could really answer that either way. The distinction is a really subjective one, and you could say that he's holding both shards, or that he holds one single Harmony

 

 

[Windrunner he/him]

I have moved this to the appropriate spoiler subforum. We have no opened up other boards to have Secret History spoilers, even in spoiler tags. Please refrain from posting Secret History spoilers elsewhere.

[emailanimal he/him]

I am on the "Devotion and Dominion are gone for good" bandwagon. The key reason behind it is that Odium won that battle, felt satisfied and left. If there was a straightforward path to recombine the Shards - Odium's not really done much. If there was a straightforward path for one Shardholder to take both Devotion and Dominion, a-la Sazed - then Odium is, frankly, hosed. Sel natives are by far the most overpowered Investiture users in Cosmere we have seen so far, limited only by geography. A combined "double D" Shard (anyone wants to name it?) would probably spell direct and immediate doom to Odium.

[Landis963 he/him]

I am on the "Devotion and Dominion are gone for good" bandwagon. The key reason behind it is that Odium won that battle, felt satisfied and left. If there was a straightforward path to recombine the Shards - Odium's not really done much. If there was a straightforward path for one Shardholder to take both Devotion and Dominion, a-la Sazed - then Odium is, frankly, hosed. Sel natives are by far the most overpowered Investiture users in Cosmere we have seen so far, limited only by geography. A combined "double D" Shard (anyone wants to name it?) would probably spell direct and immediate doom to Odium.

 

I like the name "Unity" for a Devotion/Dominion hybrid Shard.  

[DreamEternal]

I am on the "Devotion and Dominion are gone for good" bandwagon. The key reason behind it is that Odium won that battle, felt satisfied and left. If there was a straightforward path to recombine the Shards - Odium's not really done much. If there was a straightforward path for one Shardholder to take both Devotion and Dominion, a-la Sazed - then Odium is, frankly, hosed. Sel natives are by far the most overpowered Investiture users in Cosmere we have seen so far, limited only by geography. A combined "double D" Shard (anyone wants to name it?) would probably spell direct and immediate doom to Odium.

You are assuming the fact there is a path means it is straightfoward. As far as we know, that may be a feat that requires the unification of all Sel under the same banner, centuries of study of the Dor and help from worldhoppers. Not exactly easy.

[KidWayne he/him]

I like the name "Unity" for a Devotion/Dominion hybrid Shard.

See, I was going to go with "emotional abuse" or "Obsession" but on second thought, I like "Unity" better.

[Landis963 he/him]

See, I was going to go with "emotional abuse" or "Obsession" but on second thought, I like "Unity" better.

 

I'm assuming that the newly restored Shard is on the side of good. 

[Yata he/him]

I wrote a Theory about the merging of D&D in a unique shard (yeah i too came to the name "unity").

 

Anyway during SH one of the Ire talk of Devotion like if the Shard was whole again and with a Vessel, therefore maybe something happen and at least one of the Sel's Shard are whole again (merged or not with the other)

[Pathfinder]

I wrote a Theory about the merging of D&D in a unique shard (yeah i too came to the name "unity").

 

Anyway during SH one of the Ire talk of Devotion like if the Shard was whole again and with a Vessel, therefore maybe something happen and at least one of the Sel's Shard are whole again (merged or not with the other)

But shortly after they speak of "having a shard of our own". If devotion or dominion were reformed, and thereby they having a fully formed and owned shard, why would they start it that way?

[emailanimal he/him]

I'm assuming that the newly restored Shard is on the side of good. 

 

Whether any of the Shards is "on the side of good" still remains to be seen.  We might make arguments that Preservation, Devotion and Endowment appear to be less evil than, say Odium and Dominion (based on their actions, followers etc), but on a grand scheme of alignments, a lot of them are more like  neutrals.  They grant powers, and have people live with the consequences - good or bad.

[Landis963 he/him]

Whether any of the Shards is "on the side of good" still remains to be seen.  We might make arguments that Preservation, Devotion and Endowment appear to be less evil than, say Odium and Dominion (based on their actions, followers etc), but on a grand scheme of alignments, a lot of them are more like  neutrals.  They grant powers, and have people live with the consequences - good or bad.

 

I didn't say it was a valid assumption.  (Besides, Harmony is trying to be on the side of good, and Honor definitely was.)  

[lDanielHolm he/him]

Recall that Rashek was Preservation's champion. The status quo at the beginning of Mistborn served Preservation. It is hard to argue that it was in any way "good", though.

[The Invested Beard]

Recall that Rashek was Preservation's champion. The status quo at the beginning of Mistborn served Preservation. It is hard to argue that it was in any way "good", though.

 

What he did was good...from a certain point of view.

[Yata he/him]

But shortly after they speak of "having a shard of our own". If devotion or dominion were reformed, and thereby they having a fully formed and owned shard, why would they start it that way?

Yes but Preservation was an "avaliable Shard". It's vessel was quite Dead and the Shard will be "soon" ready to be picked up by them.

Maybe DorD have already a Vessel (or two vessels of course).

 

Probably you see that sentience like "We Selish will be obtain a Shard of our own" but really they may talk about their group alone.

[lDanielHolm he/him]

What he did was good...from a certain point of view.

 

Rashek taking the power from the Well of Ascension for himself, yes, absolutely. But the status quo at the start of Mistborn? That's harder to justify.

[Pathfinder]

Yes but Preservation was an "avaliable Shard". It's vessel was quite Dead and the Shard will be "soon" ready to be picked up by them.

Maybe DorD have already a Vessel (or two vessels of course).

 

Probably you see that sentience like "We Selish will be obtain a Shard of our own" but really they may talk about their group alone.

All very good points, but I feel if that was the case, they would speak of Devotion or Dominion in a more active way than just swearing by devotion. Now that is very loose and doesn't have much to support it, more just my own instinct on that so please do not take that as me saying you are incorrect. Just it doesn't feel like it fits right for me personally. 

 

Rashek taking the power from the Well of Ascension for himself, yes, absolutely. But the status quo at the start of Mistborn? That's harder to justify.

Not to start a debate, but Rashek aimed to ensure he would be around to keep Ruin locked up, and prevent anyone who could be potentially manipulated by Ruin from gaining enough power to stop him. Now we know ultimately that Ruin was able to manipulate him, but that was more to give Ruin's chosen tool (Vin) a chance to end Rashek. Ruin knew if Rashek stayed where he was, Ruin would never escape. Rashek would always be the one to take up the power, and knowing that it is a prison, always make sure Ruin stays put. Now it can be debated if that course of action balances against the lives his tyranny ended, but you are asking for the justification of the maintenance of the status quo. And simply that response is the containment of Ruin. 

[Yata he/him]

All very good points, but I feel if that was the case, they would speak of Devotion or Dominion in a more active way than just swearing by devotion. Now that is very loose and doesn't have much to support it, more just my own instinct on that so please do not take that as me saying you are incorrect. Just it doesn't feel like it fits right for me personally. 

Of course ... I wanted only to say that We don't know and their words may be used in different ways

[emailanimal he/him]

Recall that Rashek was Preservation's champion. The status quo at the beginning of Mistborn served Preservation. It is hard to argue that it was in any way "good", though.

 

 My exact point. I am totally fascinated by Rashek's life from the perspective of him being the Champion of Preservation. There are a lot of interesting nuggets in the Hero of Ages that show that he was very busy, and very rational in the face of a lot of adversity (apparently Ruin had a thick communication channel to him).  I am not going to go out and blame Ruin for every single horrible thing Rashek did (that's unfair to everyone), but the fact that he got to live for 1000 years with a full understanding that every single thing he does can and will be observed by Ruin, and that every single thing he does may actually be influenced by Ruin, coupled with the fact that he was actually able to pull a very impressive con on Ruin - makes him a very impressive character indeed.

 

On a grand scheme of things, the Intent of Preservation is not good or bad - the intent is status quo, keeping things static. There are situations, where this is a horrible thing to do, but in the context of Mistborn, Preservation was fighting with everything he had to prevent a world from being destroyed - and in that context, we perceived him as being the good guy.

[Pathfinder]

 My exact point. I am totally fascinated by Rashek's life from the perspective of him being the Champion of Preservation. There are a lot of interesting nuggets in the Hero of Ages that show that he was very busy, and very rational in the face of a lot of adversity (apparently Ruin had a thick communication channel to him).  I am not going to go out and blame Ruin for every single horrible thing Rashek did (that's unfair to everyone), but the fact that he got to live for 1000 years with a full understanding that every single thing he does can and will be observed by Ruin, and that every single thing he does may actually be influenced by Ruin, coupled with the fact that he was actually able to pull a very impressive con on Ruin - makes him a very impressive character indeed.

 

On a grand scheme of things, the Intent of Preservation is not good or bad - the intent is status quo, keeping things static. There are situations, where this is a horrible thing to do, but in the context of Mistborn, Preservation was fighting with everything he had to prevent a world from being destroyed - and in that context, we perceived him as being the good guy.

Bring a whole new level to the phrase "its not paranoia if they really are after you"

[natc]

So yeah, you just killed an innocent fellow in order to stall the end of the world, then tried to save it but instead ruined the entire biosphere, and barely pulled off a patch job to hold it together by metaphorical duct tape and chewing gum. You failed to dispose of the eldritch god of doom that you killed the guy to stop in the first place. Your only plan is to wait and try again.

For a thousand and twenty-four years. With the god clearly whispering in your mind. He can read your writing. Your thoughts are safe, but which are yours and which are his? Meanwhile the world is just short of oblivion (because of you) and it's all you can do to keep it together long enough so that you can take the power again and figure out a course of action before it runs out again. And it runs out pretty fast.

You have an Empire to run, but with no experience in government whatsoever and have to just wing it. And of course, as with any dictatorship, they try to stage coups all the time because people are people. After a few decades, in order to make sure your age alteration continues to keep you alive you must forgo sleep and live 24 hours a day fully conscious or the tapping stops.

No pressure, Rashek.

[emailanimal he/him]

So yeah, you just killed an innocent fellow in order to stall the end of the world, then tried to save it but instead ruined the entire biosphere, and barely pulled off a patch job to hold it together by metaphorical duct tape and chewing gum. You failed to dispose of the eldritch god of doom that you killed the guy to stop in the first place. Your only plan is to wait and try again.

For a thousand and twenty-four years. With the god clearly whispering in your mind. He can read your writing. Your thoughts are safe, but which are yours and which are his? Meanwhile the world is just short of oblivion (because of you) and it's all you can do to keep it together long enough so that you can take the power again and figure out a course of action before it runs out again. And it runs out pretty fast.

You have an Empire to run, but with no experience in government whatsoever and have to just wing it. And of course, as with any dictatorship, they try to stage coups all the time because people are people. After a few decades, in order to make sure your age alteration continues to keep you alive you must forgo sleep and live 24 hours a day fully conscious or the tapping stops.

No pressure, Rashek.

 

Beautifully said.  And at the end of the day, we get to discover that this is still vastly preferred to the situation when a useful tool releases the power of the well and frees up the eldritch God.

 

As I said,  the entire interplay between Leras (a formerly highly intelligent, if morally corrupt God, clinging to the last shreds of conscience trying to remember what it was that he set in motion eons ago) and Rashek is absolutely fascinating.  Between Rashek and Kelsier, I feel like Rashek has significantly more reasons to punch Leras in the face.

[Stormgate he/him]

The 24 hour awake thing... Bronze Compounding. (Or is bronze Warmth? I always get those two mixed up. Bronze and brass, I mean)

[natc]

Almost can't blame him for passing on so fast. Thousand years of that, and he can't even bring himself to care anymore now that he's dead. "I've had enough of this crap, I'm outta here. See you in the Beyond once the world ends."