TwelfthOfSnackTime Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So we know that Kandra are basically blobs of tissue that conform to a set of bones. My question is, would a Kandra be able to mimic creatures on Roshar? Most if not all creatures on Roshar have exo-skeletons like shells or carapace. Forgetting about the obvious humans and maybe Parshendi, would the Kandra be able to use a creature with an exo-skeleton instead of internal bones? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So we know that Kandra are basically blobs of tissue that conform to a set of bones. My question is, would a Kandra be able to mimic creatures on Roshar? Most if not all creatures on Roshar have exo-skeletons like shells or carapace. Forgetting about the obvious humans and maybe Parshendi, would the Kandra be able to use a creature with an exo-skeleton instead of internal bones? Given that the skeleton is just a frame to build around, at least in my opinion I do not see why they would not be able to. Imagine a kandra that ate the corpse of a chasmfiend......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenPlague Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Given that the skeleton is just a frame to build around, at least in my opinion I do not see why they would not be able to. Imagine a kandra that ate the corpse of a chasmfiend......... The corpse would probably be picked clean by birds before you had eaten half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The corpse would probably be picked clean by birds before you had eaten half. you mean cremlings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenPlague Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 you mean cremlings .weird crabthings* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volratho Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) . weird crabthings* disgusting crab thing with seventeen legs* Edited February 9, 2016 by Volratho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 By the way I love that seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 disgusting crab thing with seventeen legs* Pretty sure he even mentions a slime blob of some sort in that monologue of his. And what is a Kandra if not a thinking ball of slime. And Hoid brings it full circle for this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 And, if a group of kandra ate some chasmfiend corpses, they would still be sentient and could probably even form vocal cords. So, if hoid brought some kandra to Roshar, he could finally get his row of chasmfiends dancing and singing an ode to his greatness. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalocx Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I'm not so sure they would be able to make the exoskeleton work. Because I'm not sure the necessity of bones for Mistwraith/Kandra is purely a bio-mechanical one. I've always been confused about how kandra can create almost every organ and organ system *except* bones. They are described as "masses of muscle" yet can create eyes, noses, skin etc. with no problem, but they need an outside supply of bones (or bone shaped objects made from another rigid material). This despite the fact that bone and muscle are much closer to each other as tissue types as either are to things like skin or eyes. Oh, and I just remembered they can't create hair (or presumably nails) either despite those things being closer to skin (which they can create in on a whim with any natural color and make translucent at will). Heck they can create cartilage! Which is very similar to bone. But a kandra can eat a cartilage-less skeleton and still have ears and a nose. I think their reliance/requirement on bones may be partially tied into their nature Investiture-wise stemming back to that cognitive block TRL used to turn Furuchemists into Mistwraiths in the first place, instead of just being a matter of needing a rigid core to wrap their muscle goop around. If so, the crustacean exoskeletons of native Rosharan wildlife might not cut it 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbringer Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I'm not so sure they would be able to make the exoskeleton work. Because I'm not sure the necessity of bones for Mistwraith/Kandra is purely a bio-mechanical one. I've always been confused about how kandra can create almost every organ and organ system *except* bones. They are described as "masses of muscle" yet can create eyes, noses, skin etc. with no problem, but they need an outside supply of bones (or bone shaped objects made from another rigid material). This despite the fact that bone and muscle are much closer to each other as tissue types as either are to things like skin or eyes. Oh, and I just remembered they can't create hair (or presumably nails) either despite those things being closer to skin (which they can create in on a whim with any natural color and make translucent at will). Heck they can create cartilage! Which is very similar to bone. But a kandra can eat a cartilage-less skeleton and still have ears and a nose. I think their reliance/requirement on bones may be partially tied into their nature Investiture-wise stemming back to that cognitive block TRL used to turn Furuchemists into Mistwraiths in the first place, instead of just being a matter of needing a rigid core to wrap their muscle goop around. If so, the crustacean exoskeletons of native Rosharan wildlife might not cut it Im supportive of this theory. The idea of a cognitive restriction makes sense in that because they were originally humans it stands to reason that becoming something as alien as an alien crab would be beyond them to synthesise. Note that we have only seen kandra in mammalian forms. I just remember kanpaar exibititing a strange almost nervously reluctant response to a relavant question in SoS. when wayne enquired of him if he could be a bunny rabbit I think he found the idea of doing it unpleasant and probably difficult. Then again the level of transformation skill among kandra varies greatly from several hours for a human to human transition in the case of Melaan who is considered skilled and competent. To Tensoon at their peak who can shift from wolf hound to human in seconds. So maybe its possible. Theoretically possible, given the highest skill and enough practice and understanding. But doubtful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Or it could be that a mighty, semidivine, shapeshifting, immortal being with a preference for taking human shape would be hesitant to admit that it is possible for him to become a rabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Most of them were never human, technically. The vast majority are children of other mistwraiths. That does not eliminate the possibility of vestigial encoding in their spiritual DNA or something along those lines, but I figured I'd clarify that one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Personally, and keep in mind this is my own opinion without any concrete facts in the book to back it up, I think it just comes down to skill and difficulty. That the more "alien" the form, the harder it is to take the shape, but does not mean it is impossible. That with enough practice it would be accomplished. The reason for this, is we see Tensoon become a dog so at least we do know outside human is possible (though I do concede as pointed out it was mammalian). I feel the reason for the difficulty, is if kandra could take the forms of animals easily, then what is to stop a kandra from becoming a bird and scouting a compound? Or a rat and infiltrating a building? Any animal would become suspect and would break the system. Why become a human when there are so many more options in the animal kingdom that are better suited for spying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirTraconus Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Personally, and keep in mind this is my own opinion without any concrete facts in the book to back it up, I think it just comes down to skill and difficulty. That the more "alien" the form, the harder it is to take the shape, but does not mean it is impossible. That with enough practice it would be accomplished. The reason for this, is we see Tensoon become a dog so at least we do know outside human is possible (though I do concede as pointed out it was mammalian). I feel the reason for the difficulty, is if kandra could take the forms of animals easily, then what is to stop a kandra from becoming a bird and scouting a compound? Or a rat and infiltrating a building? Why become a human when there are so many more options in the animal kingdom that are better suited for spying? Because there is an issue with mass. Rats and birds only have so much muscle, and kandra are human sized. In order to turn into something so small, they'd have to get rid of a huge portion of their mass. And there is the problem of the spikes. what ever they turn into has to be big enough to have the kandra blessings in them. Kandra blessings are about 3 inches long, and I doubt a rat could have two of them through its body with them sticking out. People would notice if a hemalurgic rat was running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Because there is an issue with mass. Rats and birds only have so much muscle, and kandra are human sized. In order to turn into something so small, they'd have to get rid of a huge portion of their mass. And there is the problem of the spikes. what ever they turn into has to be big enough to have the kandra blessings in them. Kandra blessings are about 3 inches long, and I doubt a rat could have two of them through its body with them sticking out. People would notice if a hemalurgic rat was running around. Have you seen rats in NY? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 The spike does have to pierce specific organs, anything else it passes through is just a normal stab wound and you'd probably have to get real creative with your organ structure. You can't die from them but the organs still need to work . . . Plus, apparently rabbits are too small to retain intelligence without difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwelfthOfSnackTime Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 The spike does have to pierce specific organs, anything else it passes through is just a normal stab wound and you'd probably have to get real creative with your organ structure. You can't die from them but the organs still need to work . . . Plus, apparently rabbits are too small to retain intelligence without difficulty. They don't have to pierce specific organs but specific points of your spirit web. Remember Kandra do weird stuff with their organs. BoM spoiler MeLaan has an extra canteen in her head instead of a brain. It might seem that you have to pierce certain organs on humans but that is because humans have the same positioning of organs as all other humans. But it would still work if, for example you had to stab the appendix, the person you were stabbing had their appendix removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Plus, apparently rabbits are too small to retain intelligence without difficulty. Is there a quote or WoB on this? Not disputing it, but this is the first I heard of it, so curious the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) People would notice if a hemalurgic rat was running around. Lol. Also, speaking of kandra and Roshar, amians seem very similar to kandra. I'm not saying they are the same at all, I am sure they aren't, but it is interesting. Edited February 19, 2016 by Drake Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Is there a quote or WoB on this? Not disputing it, but this is the first I heard of it, so curious the source. Bands of Mourning, Chapter 4. Wayne aaks VenDell if he has the ability to become a bunny, because he had read a book in SoS about talking bunnies. "Very small animals are extremely difficult, as we need a certain mass to hold our cognitive functions and-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Bands of Mourning, Chapter 4. Wayne aaks VenDell if he has the ability to become a bunny, because he had read a book in SoS about talking bunnies. "Very small animals are extremely difficult, as we need a certain mass to hold our cognitive functions and-" edit: took a reread to get that. It is the morning, had a long late night weekend, and took a sec to notice the cognitive function part lol, Thanks! Edited February 22, 2016 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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