Robinski Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Sweet. So, do you work closely with the editor on tuning between now and end of year? And just tell me to put a sock in it if I'm asking took much or the wrong questions!! We've never had a novel sale on RE that I can think of, couple of shorts I think. Happy to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Oooh yes. Two to three rounds with the editor (have already done a partial round for larger edits), then a round to a copy editor, then a round to a proof reader. I'm glad to have it off my plate for a bit so I can buckle down on the second book and maybe actually finish writing the third one. God...how did this even happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Because you made it happen - you've only got yourself to blame :op 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Awesome to hear all this, kaisa! I look forward to buying the published version next year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Firstly, congratulations kaisa! Will your book be published only in the US, or will us Europeans be able to find it as well? (Or the other way around, I just realized I don't actually know where you're from.) Secondly, @krystalynn03 suggested a while ago that I bring up a topic here in the lounge: the snowflake method, which I use for outlining my plot(s). So my question is if anyone would be interested to take a look at the (work in progress) snowflake outline for Jet Black Medium, as sort of a case study. Do take into account that it's a mystery and looking at the outline will spoil the ending big-time. Edited July 22, 2016 by Eagle of the Forest Path 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 39 minutes ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: if anyone would be interested to take a look at the (work in progress) snowflake outline for Jet Black Mediu yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) So how do we do this? I was thinking I'd PM you the link to the google doc? And if there are any other takers I'll invite them to the PM as well. Edited July 22, 2016 by Eagle of the Forest Path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 9 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: Will your book be published only in the US, or will us Europeans be able to find it as well? The publisher does international distribution so you should be able to get it no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: I was thinking I'd PM you the link to the google doc? Yeah, that should work. Go for it. Edited July 22, 2016 by Robinski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystalynn03 Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 On 7/21/2016 at 10:39 AM, kaisa said: God...how did this even happen.... First: Congrats, kaisa! 11 hours ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said: the snowflake method, Second: I'd like to take a look. I don't mind spoilers. And third is a confession: I have read no submissions nor written a jot since Pokemon Go came out. Yes, #millenialproblems. In other news, I was also on vacation in a very scenic area on the west coast, which also contributes to no computer for a week hence no writing. Gonna' try to play a little catch-up now! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Yeesh, Pokemon GO?! If only I did not spend so long playing Taichi Panda and trading Star Wars cards on the Topps app, I could take the moral high ground (And Premier League Fantasy Football, and NFL Fantasy Football, and...) Edited July 23, 2016 by Robinski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystalynn03 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Don't hate the playa...hate the game. No, don't hate the game, <R>, this is a fabulous social phenomenon! I haven't seen this many people in their 20s-30s all in one place since college. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Lol - I heard a guy got shot in someone's front yard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystalynn03 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 People do stupid stuff all the time... Get a population large enough of people doing a thing and something will go wrong somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yeah, more and more, I'm afraid :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystalynn03 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Robinski said: Yeah, more and more, I'm afraid :-/ Sadly so. Humans acting like lemmings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodemon Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 On 22-7-2016 at 3:52 PM, krystalynn03 said: And third is a confession: I have read no submissions nor written a jot since Pokemon Go came out. Yes, #millenialproblems. In other news, I was also on vacation in a very scenic area on the west coast, which also contributes to no computer for a week hence no writing. Gonna' try to play a little catch-up now! I hear you about scenic vacation spots. I've not read much, or written much either, for the past two months and this is not likely to change in the coming months as I'm travelling all over the place. Everything kind of falls by the wayside when you're in a new place every few days and there is so much to explore. Pokemon Go doesn't help much either to get me to write. It's so much fun and I see a lot of cool landmarks by chasing pokestops 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystalynn03 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Asmodemon said: Pokemon Go doesn't help much either to get me to write. It's so much fun and I see a lot of cool landmarks by chasing pokestops Yeah, routine is what makes me most productive when I'm writing. I'm an early morning writer--like to do it while my mind is fresh and undistracted. Traveling and vacation are not conducive to that! Not only are the Pokestops cool--calling your attention to landmarks you might have missed with just your eyes--but I'm enjoying the social phenomenon aspect. I don't know how things are by other cities, but in the region I'm in, people of my generation seemed to just 'disappear' after college. Pokemon Go attracts a certain age demographic in general and has brought those people out to public places to hang out. I've had more social interactions with friendly strangers in the last two weeks than I have in the last year. I have already have plenty of close friends and social circle friends, but adding a third tier--the friendly stranger with obvious common interest--is rounding the social strata of local city life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodemon Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 On 3-7-2016 at 6:34 PM, Carcinios said: So I suspect that everyone here likes the Cosmere as a concept. But I have a question. Would anyone ever consider setting their fiction in a shared universe like that? I was thinking about the pros and cons of having a deep background that is common across the different stories I wanted to tell and was wondering if anyone else had thought about it. Here are some initial thoughts I have had: Pros Gives an easy framework to hang world building off. No need to build everything from base level each time. Allows you to tell stories that don't follow the standard narrative structures because you have a degree of assumed knowledge. Gives a greater sense of depth to the universe Cons Danger of contradiction. Once something is the case in one story it has to be consistent in all stories. Danger of repetition. All the worlds follow the same rules and therefore aren't sufficiently unique (including the danger of being to heavily influenced by pre-existing shared universes) This one may be unique to writers of a religious persuasion but tackling the questions of deity, origins of existence and evil in a way that is honouring to what you believe but isn't just an allegory. Any thoughts one way or the other? I have thought about it. Right now I have a couple story ideas with, at its roots, similar magic systems. The practical applications differ across the stories, but since the roots are the same they could all take place in the same universe, just on different worlds. Kind of like Brandon's Cosmere. Right now I'm not quite sold on the idea just yet, since it does limit what I can do per world/story as it must not contradict the 'shared universe' setting as described in other stories, but I have found myself sprinkling hints of a shared universe in the latest stories I have been plotting by including references to two ancient world-hopping species in the myths and legends of those worlds. No actual crossovers yet, but I have some thoughts on how to do that as well. Hmm, maybe I am more sold on this idea than I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodemon Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, krystalynn03 said: Yeah, routine is what makes me most productive when I'm writing. I'm an early morning writer--like to do it while my mind is fresh and undistracted. Traveling and vacation are not conducive to that! Not only are the Pokestops cool--calling your attention to landmarks you might have missed with just your eyes--but I'm enjoying the social phenomenon aspect. I don't know how things are by other cities, but in the region I'm in, people of my generation seemed to just 'disappear' after college. Pokemon Go attracts a certain age demographic in general and has brought those people out to public places to hang out. I've had more social interactions with friendly strangers in the last two weeks than I have in the last year. I have already have plenty of close friends and social circle friends, but adding a third tier--the friendly stranger with obvious common interest--is rounding the social strata of local city life! Routine is something I'm sorely lacking right now. It doesn't help that when I do find time to write I spend it writing blog posts to tell the people back home what I'm up to or doing some post-processing on photos to show them what I'm up to. I have no idea how (and if) I'm going to do NaNoWriMo this year... I love the social aspect of Pokemon Go as well. There have been so many campaigns to get people to go outside and just play, or walk, or exercise and none of them worked. And here Pokemon Go does it effortlessly. It's so easy to strike up a conversation with strangers, though I have met my fair share of zombies as well. Some people just aren't interested in talking, but for the most part I've met some really nice people this way. Since I travel solo I mostly meet people in hostels, but with Pokemon Go I've easily doubled the amount of people I talk to For now playing is a bit hard though, since I'm limited to free wi-fi hotspots while abroad (the roaming fees are exorbitant), but working within the limitations is part of the fun too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcinios Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 6 hours ago, Asmodemon said: I have thought about it. Right now I have a couple story ideas with, at its roots, similar magic systems. The practical applications differ across the stories, but since the roots are the same they could all take place in the same universe, just on different worlds. Kind of like Brandon's Cosmere. Right now I'm not quite sold on the idea just yet, since it does limit what I can do per world/story as it must not contradict the 'shared universe' setting as described in other stories, but I have found myself sprinkling hints of a shared universe in the latest stories I have been plotting by including references to two ancient world-hopping species in the myths and legends of those worlds. No actual crossovers yet, but I have some thoughts on how to do that as well. Hmm, maybe I am more sold on this idea than I thought... Whilst it does introduce a limiting factor to the stories it provides a helpful context that allows story teller to do different things. A couple of examples where I have found it helpful... 1. My shared universe involves a kind of cosmic shadow war going on with players on both sides working behind the scenes to influence things. I am generally quite optimistic and so a story which is utterly bleak doesn't appeal to me. However in a shared universe I feel able to explore darker themes because in the deep background there is still hope. It is only dark in one particular place in the universe. 2. It allows me to give characters decisions with much more far reaching consequences. Faced with the choice of unleashing evil on your world or exiling it into deep space, in a stand alone novel the exile choice might be quite appealing. However when that means letting it loose on other worlds with characters you know and love it completely changes the dynamic of the choice. I think it is a fascinating concept to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Anyone want to party with me here in the lounge? Have discussions? Trade secrets of picking up women in cafe's ala @Robinski's Quirk? Seriously though - let's talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) In Quirk's case - wearing a $47,000 suit (today's money) in the fashion capital of Italy probably helped. This is apropo (that's a funny word) of nothing, but when I was reading Ghando's prologue, I was put in mind of The Searchers, a John Wayne western for those who don't know, arguably his best, although Red River is also up there. Anyway, I mention this casually, with no intention of holding up the westerns of the 50's as paragons of virtue in relation to treatment of female characters. The characters were all tough frontier folk, men and women alike, but there certainly were no women riding with the Texas Rangers in the story. Nonetheless, the story was probably historically accurate in some respects in terms of the roles of women. I dont know. My point in raising it was that when the indians (I know, I know - I'm using the parlance of the time) raided the ranch, they kidnapped two (I think) of the women. The story becomes about Ethan Edwards' (Wayne) obsessive pursuit of his niece, but the viewer is not quite sure whether he intends to rescue her or put an end to her 'suffering' after being in the hands of Comanches for a year. Some would say that the women's misfortune is the motivator for the male protagonist's actions, but it's open to question in the end whether the main female chr, Edwards' niece, is actually suffering and the nobility of his actions is questionnable. So, where did that point go? Ah yes, while The Searchers is not a glowing example of female chrs on an equal footing, it absolutely shows that killing of the female chrs is the lowest of low hanging fruit, and that writers should be trying much, much harder to create conflict and interest. I also realised as I wrote this out than, in The Searchers, the comanches raided one farm to draw the rangers away so they could mount a bigger more devatating attack elsewhere. Edited August 3, 2016 by Robinski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, Robinski said: in the end whether the main female chr, Edwards' niece, is actually suffering and the nobility of his actions is questionnable. Ah, see, I like this! Starting with a trope (that wasn't really recognized as a trope back then, even though it totally was) and then turning it on its head. That's fun! Sort of brings Edwards' motivation into question, makes him realize his motivation was not perhaps as pure as he thought at first. I sometimes want to ask people though, why does the fridging have to happen to just the females? Like, sure, we all want to go for the low hanging fruit sometimes. We're all human. So why not fridge a male? Fridge a male and a female together! Fridge your character's favorite dog. If we must fridge, let's fridge with greater variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neongrey Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) The problem I have in that case becomes less one of principles and more about writing in general. If the only reason for one character's pain is to make us feel bad for another character, or to provide motivation for that character, that's a lazy move. It's less inherently objectionable when it doesn't involve members of marginalized groups but I don't think it makes for good writing. Note that I'm not objecting to killing characters for emotional or plot impact (ned star is a very well-known example of this being done effectively) but it's one of those things where I think you really need to look at what role it's filling in a story. I an actually in kind of an awkward place looking at my own outline because-- as we all should be well aware-- there's been a lot of attention called to killing off LGBT characters in media lately (do check out what happened with a show called The 100 if you're not familiar because that case was particularly egregious, but there's huge lists of characters killed off this year alone) and I do have characters who are going to die and I have exactly one character who would self-identify as heterosexual, and he's definitely not. Burn that bridge when I get to it, I guess. Edited August 4, 2016 by neongrey changed my mind about examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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