So I asked if Hoid would kill...

[iBambam]

In my preorder copy of Bands of Mourning I asked Brandon a question which I debated for a while with some of you guys. The exact wording of my question was: 

 

"Hoid says he would watch Roshar burn if it meant his goals were achieved. Would Hoid go so far as to kill to achieve these goals? Can you give a hint about what his goals are?"

 

In the lower left-hand corner he drew the symbol for Harmonium, I'm assuming a new Godmetal. To my knowledge we don't know anything about this yet. I'm super stoked to read the book, but I had to share this info with everyone first. 

 

 

So Hoid would, and probably will kill. And, we probably won't agree with some of his goals, that has me extremely interested. 

[Quiver]

The most interesting part of that quote to mes 'if he could make it happen'. I wonder if that's related to power -"Hoid would kill Rayse if be could, but a Shard is stronger"- or if there is a reason he can't kill...

[imriel452]

We have known about Harmonium for some time, especially as we know that Harmony prefers the name to Sazedium.

As for whether or not Hoid would kill, I think he would manipulate others into killing, as this would then get around the whole 'not being able to hurt anyone'.

 

Brilliant information though  

[Chaos]

This is awesome.

You should discuss this in the Secret History board, when you read that.

[iBambam]

I definitely will, as soon as I finish BoM!

[Asperity]

I've always seen Hoid as a vigilante-type character. He seems willing to do what needs to be done in order to fulfill his own ulterior motives.

 

Take the comic book hero The Punisher, for example. He is a vigilante who kills people but only kills strictly "bad" guys. A lot of people in-universe have a problem with this but he keeps on going. Some people are thankful; some aren't. Rough example but it can possibly fit.

[emailanimal]

I've always seen Hoid as a vigilante-type character. He seems willing to do what needs to be done in order to fulfill his own ulterior motives.

 

 

I am not certain "vigilante" is the right word. We have not seen Hoid actively "vigilante" against anyone. We had glimpses of him providing information to others, and with the exception of one specific recent glimpse, it was not clear that what he was doing at that moment advanced his plans significantly.

 

Maybe not not vigilante, maybe "atonement"? 

 

iBambam: excellent question, and great answers. Lots to ponder.

[iBambam]

I am not certain "vigilante" is the right word. We have not seen Hoid actively "vigilante" against anyone. We had glimpses of him providing information to others, and with the exception of one specific recent glimpse, it was not clear that what he was doing at that moment advanced his plans significantly.

Maybe not not vigilante, maybe "atonement"?

iBambam: excellent question, and great answers. Lots to ponder.

Thanks! I think vigilante might be a good word, not necessarily punisher level, but maybe like a more Robin Hood esc vigilante?

[Asperity]

Right, yeah. Hoid comes off as more of a loner character, who runs around by himself with his own goals doing what needs to be done. Vigilante was just the first word that popped into my head.

[Zmann966]

Quote from Stormlight Archive posted in the SH board about this topoc:

 

 

“Yes,” Rock said. “Not grey, like old man, but white— yet he is young man. He spoke with me on shore. Ha! Made mockery of my beard. Asked what year it was, by Horneater calendar. Thought my name was funny. Very powerful god.”

“Were you scared?” Lopen asked.

“No, of course not. Lunu’anaki cannot hurt man. Is forbidden by other gods. Everyone knows this.” Rock downed the rest of his second mug and raised it to the air, grinning and wagging it toward Ka again as she passed.

Common thinking is that the Shards themselves did something to actually inhibit Hoid's ability to harm people,

[Oversleep]

Hoid is more of Xanatos Speech Chessmaster than a vigilante.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Oversleep

[emailanimal]

Hoid is more of Xanatos Speech Chessmaster than a vigilante.

 

Yes. I second that.

[The Sovereign]

Obviously this is speculation, but I think the Harmonium symbol is a really big indicator to Hoid's overall goal. Not that he is trying to acquire Harmonium or anything like that, I suspect that Brandon drew the symbol as a nod to it being the first step to recombining the shards. With this clue my guess is that Hoid is trying to reassemble Adonalsium.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Iron Eyes

[iBambam]

Obviously this is speculation, but I think the Harmonium symbol is a really big indicator to Hoid's overall goal. Not that he is trying to acquire Harmonium or anything like that, I suspect that Brandon drew the symbol as a nod to it being the first step to recombining the shards. With this clue my guess is that Hoid is trying to reassemble Adonalsium.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I was wondering if anyone else would come up with that theory. Kudos my friend!

[emailanimal]

Obviously this is speculation, but I think the Harmonium symbol is a really big indicator to Hoid's overall goal. Not that he is trying to acquire Harmonium or anything like that, I suspect that Brandon drew the symbol as a nod to it being the first step to recombining the shards. With this clue my guess is that Hoid is trying to reassemble Adonalsium.

 

 If that is the case (and I am far from convinced it is), there have been other hints at that - Ym's religion being probably the most blatant one (largely because it is the only text we have at this moment that does not consider a Shard being completely splintered as a "problem" to eventual recostruction of "the One"... in fact, it suggests that all Shards must be splintered first before "the One" is back).

[Yata]

Maybe Hoid tries "just" to rebuild some Adonalsium's Investiture through the merging of Shards' Investiture.

The Harmonium will be a great sample because it come from the Only (I think) Double-Shard in the Cosmere.

 

It's like to find naturally a clue to your own reserch. You may progress very fast with that.

[The Sovereign]

 If that is the case (and I am far from convinced it is), there have been other hints at that - Ym's religion being probably the most blatant one (largely because it is the only text we have at this moment that does not consider a Shard being completely splintered as a "problem" to eventual recostruction of "the One"... in fact, it suggests that all Shards must be splintered first before "the One" is back).

 

You would be half right here, as you said, shard being splintered is not a problem for the "reconstruction". This WoB supports that:

 

 

Interview: Feb 12th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - Mason Wheeler (Paraphrased)

Mason Wheeler

You've said that Splintering a shard is essentially the same thing as the shattering of Adonalsium, repeated on a smaller scale.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler

And a while ago, someone asked you if Splintering was permanent or reversible, and you said that it can be reversed.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler

And shard holders tend to take the name of the shard they hold. So you've got Sazed, who goes by "Harmony" now, after taking up Ruin and Preservation. That makes me wonder, does he hold two shards... or one?

Brandon Sanderson

You could really answer that either way. The distinction is a really subjective one, and you could say that he's holding both shards, or that he holds one single Harmony.

 

 

However, Harmony himself is precedent that the shards do not need to be splintered to be reassembled.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Iron Eyes

[masaru]

The most interesting part of that quote to mes 'if he could make it happen'. I wonder if that's related to power -"Hoid would kill Rayse if be could, but a Shard is stronger"- or if there is a reason he can't kill...

 

I think the "if he could make it happen" is hinting that maybe Hoid's goals are not realistic. Perhaps he wants to put Adonalsium back together but that's not actually possible to do.

[emailanimal]

 

You would be half right here, as you said, shard being splintered is not a problem for the "reconstruction". This WoB supports that:

 

...

 

However, Harmony himself is precedent that the shards do not need to be splintered to be reassembled.

 

 Ok, I am going to go to work here on the following things. We can make an observation that the following three processes observed in Cosmere, and discussed by Brandon in various Q&As  actually may be facets of the same.

 

  1. Sazed taking the Shards of Ruin and Preservation and holding their combined powers.

 

  2. Hoid travelling around Cosmere and acquiring (or attempting to acquire) the ability to store and  use Investiture in ways provided by Shards (Breath, Allomancy, etc...)

 

  3. Uses of Hemalurgy to transfer Investiture handling abilities from one being to another.

 

I have another thought.  There is a lot of Q&As in which Brandon lets it be known that the Cosmere magic systemns are susceptible to hacking - using Investiture gained from one system to power work of another system... I am used to viewing all this: questions of the form "what would happen if a Nirosil Misting who received Breath on Roshar tried to draw Aons using a silver knife while on Taldain?" with a healthy dose of irony.... But now I think, what if this hacking is NOT a simple by-product of how Shards are organized? What if this is *precisely the point* of the Cosmere stories?   What if Hoid's trope is actually some sort of a noodle implement that requires a combination of 16 Investitures acquired from all Shards and applied to each other in very specific ways? What if what he is doing is essentially getting to a point where he can do some compounding on very serious drugs?

 

  Brandon has given some hints that Hemalurgy has a very special place in Cosmere because it steals every possible type of Investiture-based abilities.  So, there is Hoid's way of getting to that noodle implement. And there is the Hemalurgy way of doing the same.... And now we have a race condition, because some very suspicious folks have just about figured out Hemalurgy for themselves.

 

 If this is the case - CLEVER CLEVER Brandon!  This is very well hidden right in front of us.

[Argent]

Fascinating. I wonder if Hoid's ability to survive nearly everything is tied to his reluctance or inability to inflict violence, as suggested by Rock's tavern story.

[Oversleep]

Fascinating. I wonder if Hoid's ability to survive nearly everything is tied to his reluctance or inability to inflict violence, as suggested by Rock's tavern story.

Plot Feruchemy. He stores ability to kill, but at the same time he cannot be killed.

He stores the years he should live through and then taps to live in another time (WoB: Hoid hasn't lived through all the years he was alive.)

[Asperity]

I also see Hemalurgy as being special. I think it will increase in prominence and become more important as we progress through the chronology.

[Paliah]

This obviously isn't always the case, but it would be interesting if some of the versions of Hoid turned out to be illusions created by advanced Lightweaving at a distance, while Hoid is actually located somewhere else. This would prevent the illusory Hoid from killing and from being killed. However, we've seen Hoid give other characters material objects, so he seems to have been physically present, at least in those instances. 

[Oathbringer]

Hold would make the truth dance (Aes Sedai style) and he would definitely manipulate others first. Killing would be rather brash for him, but we don't for what yet...