misttaken Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Ok. Crazy theory. We saw in Secret Histories that you need to have some Connection to a Shard in order to pick it up. Kelsier actually has trouble with Preservation for that reason, while Sazed (who has recently gained a connection to Ruin in addition to Preservation) is able to pick up both. My theory is that Hoid wants to eventually put Adonalsium back together, and is working his way around the Cosmere picking up a Connection to each Shard in order to do that. Spoilers for everything... We know he has the Lerasium bead, the Sceptre, some Breaths, etc... Spoilers for WoR Even crazier is the other person who seems to be collecting Invested objects. Mraize. Could he have the same goal? Or similar? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Well he originally wanted the Lerasium to become an Allomancer. Which doesn't necessarily guarantee a connection to Preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit he/him Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well he originally wanted the Lerasium to become an Allomancer. Which doesn't necessarily guarantee a connection to Preservation. Doesn't it? I recall a WoB that Lerasium mistborn are 'close' to being slivers, and a sliver seems to be Connected to the power of the Shard. Maybe the diluted forms of allomancers in Era 1 Scadrial, like Kelsier, were no longer Connected enough to Preservation, or else Kelsier was just so Connected to Ruin that his Connection to Preservation was drowned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer12347 he/him Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Maybe he wants to be Adonalsium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imriel452 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I don't think he wants to be Adonalsium - if he wanted power of that magnitude, he wouldn't have rejected the offers of the original Vessels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegatorgirl00 she/her Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Maybe he just didn't want to participate in killing Adonalsium, but now that Adonalsium is Shattered he wants to try and put it back together by becoming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Maybe he just didn't want to participate in killing Adonalsium, but now that Adonalsium is Shattered he wants to try and put it back together by becoming it. He was unhappy about Aona and Skai's Splintering. The entire exchange in the two Letters makes it sound like his plans are more complex than becoming new Adonalsium. The plans *may* include the study of all existing magic systems. But I am not sure he is doing it to become the new Adonalsium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryshadium she/her Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Maybe he WAS Adonalsium. And survived the Shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Maybe he WAS Adonalsium. And survived the Shattering. There is a new WoB stating that the being that was Adonalsium was killed to be shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 There is a new WoB stating that the being that was Adonalsium was killed to be shattered. The confirmation was in imriel452's signed edition of Bands of Mourning: I finally received my copy of Bands of Mourning today, having asked for information on Adonalsium (IN my copy of Firefight it was revealed that there was a failed plot to kill Adonalsium which failed) The Inscription reads: "Adonalsium shattered because he was killed." We now have confirmation that Adonalsium was a living being, and was male. It sounds as if there were several attempts on His life... What is the current info on the Weapon and the other plots? Can we start to tie things together? Particularly with M:SH revealing so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryshadium she/her Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Lol! I was mostly joking, but that's awesome to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Well he originally wanted the Lerasium to become an Allomancer. Which doesn't necessarily guarantee a connection to Preservation. I think that's actually exactly what lerasium does - it gives you a strong Connection to Preservation. I thought this was hard-confirmed in Secret History, or maybe a WoB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taveren he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 anyone else notice that he seemed surprised that he could "hurt" Kelsier. so it seems confirmed that something is stopping him from hurting anyone normally and it isn't just him not liking it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I just don't think he likes causing pain or killing others. I think he was just surprised that Kelsier hadn't noticed that your body can ignore pain like he could while in the Cognative Realm he just shook off his blows from Kelsier and when he kicked his leg he told him the body reacts like he "expects" it to. With how punch happy Kelsier was in this book im glad Hoid slapped him around a little, Oh god every time i read about him i just love him more haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think that Brandon has said that Hoid is constrained in his ability to hurt/kill others. From the interview database. INTERVIEW: Mar 24th, 2014 Fantasy Faction Interview: Brandon Sanderson Stormlight Interview (Verbatim) QUESTIONFinally, and most importantly, if all your protagonists had an epic all out brawl, who would win? BRANDON SANDERSON Some of them are immortal, but that would kind of be cheating. If you let people who are immortal participate, it's going to very much favor someone like Hoid, who is really, really, really hard to kill. Of course, he would not be very good at offing anyone either, because of certain things in his past. It would be really futile when it got down to the last two. But if we take that out. You'd have to set ground rules. Do they get access to their magic? Where is it taking place? If we take away all magic and we just say people are beating up on each other, who's going to win? It's probably Kelsier because he'll fight dirty. Vasher fights really dirty, too. If Kelsier and Vasher gang up on the rest, and then it depends who's still not in pieces at the end. It'd be Kelsier or Vasher probably. TAGS hoid, kelsier, vasher, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsium he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Isn't it stated somewhere that killing/hurting someone damages your spiritweb somehow? Hoid seems to have a very intimate knowledge of how Realmatic Theory works. So If he IS trying to rejoin all 16 shards, maybe its less of a "can't" thing versus a "I know hat happens when I do this and it doesn't support my end goal." So he was scared to do anything to Kelsier, but he can essentially watch his spiritweb and was surprised that it didn't affect him to cause damage in the Spiritual Realm. Once he discovered that he didn't have an issue with it. Basically, I'm suggesting that in order to recombine all 16, which would be a MASSIVE amount of power, any tears or damages in your spiritweb could cause the process to either fail or kill you. So he is absolutely unwilling to do anything that would jeopardize that. I do like the theory though. I support it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Isn't it stated somewhere that killing/hurting someone damages your spiritweb somehow? Hoid seems to have a very intimate knowledge of how Realmatic Theory works. So If he IS trying to rejoin all 16 shards, maybe its less of a "can't" thing versus a "I know hat happens when I do this and it doesn't support my end goal." Hoid's surprise at being able to harm Kelsier seems to imply that normally he can't harm others, not that he won't do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsium he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Yes, but...if he has such an advanced awareness, and is constantly aware of his personal Spiritual health, maybe he knows where his limits are...he knows that there is a line that he can't cross without damaging his spiritweb. Who knows what that line is. So maybe he is able to cause bruises, but not spill blood. Just as an example, not saying that that is the case. But when he engaged Kelsier, he noticed that his meter wasn't moving, so to speak. That was what surprised him. Not that he COULD hurt him, but just that it didn't have any negative effects on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baby he/him Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) anyone else notice that he seemed surprised that he could "hurt" Kelsier. so it seems confirmed that something is stopping him from hurting anyone normally and it isn't just him not liking it Well, I'd buy him not being able to harm others normally, apart from one thing. How was he able to best Kelsier, Kelsier, easily? It doesn't matter that they're in the Cognitive Realm, or that Kelsier wasn't a mistborn. Kelsier's whole existence relied on besting others in fights and Hoid trashed him completely. If he couldn't harm anyone, why would he bother learning all this? Edited February 6, 2016 by Onceler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Doesn't it? I recall a WoB that Lerasium mistborn are 'close' to being slivers, and a sliver seems to be Connected to the power of the Shard. Maybe the diluted forms of allomancers in Era 1 Scadrial, like Kelsier, were no longer Connected enough to Preservation, or else Kelsier was just so Connected to Ruin that his Connection to Preservation was drowned out. I'm not sure why you seem confused here, as you seem to have answered your own question that it doesn't guarantee you a connection to Preservation. It might push you in that direction, sure, but that's not the same thing. Well, I'd buy him not being able to harm others normally, apart from one thing. How was he able to best Kelsier, Kelsier, easily? It doesn't matter that they're in the Cognitive Realm, or that Kelsier wasn't a mistborn. Kelsier's whole existence relied on besting others in fights and Hoid trashed him completely. If he couldn't harm anyone, why would he bother learning all this? Because Kelsier is a noob at being a ghost? I'd imagine it's somewhat different for someone physically in the cognitive realm to deliver a beatdown than it is for a newly-minted Cognitive Shadow to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit he/him Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'm not sure why you seem confused here, as you seem to have answered your own question that it doesn't guarantee you a connection to Preservation. It might push you in that direction, sure, but that's not the same thing. I may be interpretting things wrong, but I'm pretty sure everyone on a given Shardworld has a Connection to the Shards that inhabit it, especially Scadrial since the humans were created with the power of Ruin and Preservation. There are varying levels of Connection, though. Lerasium is one way to drastically increase the strength of your Connection to Preservation, but not necessarily to the point of being as Connected to the power of the Shard as a sliver would be. We don't yet know what the threshold of required Connection strength is to be able to become a Shard's Vessel. Lerasium may give you enough Connection to Preservation to become Preservation's vessel. Sazed became the Vessel of both Preservation and Ruin without any (recent) Lerasium in his sDNA to strengthen his Connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I think Kel only really lost because Hoid knows how things work and could simply think he wouldn't feel pain. So yeah, noob at being a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I may be interpretting things wrong, but I'm pretty sure everyone on a given Shardworld has a Connection to the Shards that inhabit it, especially Scadrial since the humans were created with the power of Ruin and Preservation. There are varying levels of Connection, though. Lerasium is one way to drastically increase the strength of your Connection to Preservation, but not necessarily to the point of being as Connected to the power of the Shard as a sliver would be. Kind of, but with a caveat. Leras told Kel that he had not had enough Connection to Preservation to take it up. Kelsier had to steal a magic McGuffin full of Investiture to accomplish this goal, and even at that, he could only "hold the fort" so to speak. Sazed was a person of Preservation throughout the first two books, but according to the Secret History, his actions in book 3 made him Connected to Ruin sufficiently to take up Ruin. Things may be different on, e.g., Nalthis, where everyone walks with a piece of Endowment and can accumulate more. But even there - I think - the level of Connection varies greatly. Some are sufficiently connected to become Returned. Some - are not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit he/him Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Kind of, but with a caveat. Leras told Kel that he had not had enough Connection to Preservation to take it up. Kelsier had to steal a magic McGuffin full of Investiture to accomplish this goal, and even at that, he could only "hold the fort" so to speak. Sazed was a person of Preservation throughout the first two books, but according to the Secret History, his actions in book 3 made him Connected to Ruin sufficiently to take up Ruin. Things may be different on, e.g., Nalthis, where everyone walks with a piece of Endowment and can accumulate more. But even there - I think - the level of Connection varies greatly. Some are sufficiently connected to become Returned. Some - are not. Don't they say in SH that Kelsier (once he'd used the "magic McGuffin") could not hold Preservation as well as Vin or Sazed because he was a cognitive shadow, and so did not exist in all three realms. I thought that was mentioned at some point, but I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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