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Ym


JosephOfHathsin

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It just might. It (don't remember the gender of it...) could warn our heroes in Uruthiru about crazed Radiant-slayer coming their way.

But the Spren needs to bond another Radiant to keep his mind and warn someone

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But the Spren needs to bond another Radiant to keep his mind and warn someone

 

Uhm, right. True.  Here goes this theory. So in this case, I don't think Ym's spren will be coming back.

 

Unless it bonds another Edgedancer and regains its memories of what happened to Ym, but that's just a tad far-fetched.

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It makes me sad, but I don't think we'll see Ym again. I totally agree with the others who'd like to see more of him - there was a real sweetness to his character. The fact that Brandon could, in a short interlude, acquaint us so well with Ym is a tribute to the author's skill. I think the whole point of the interlude was to emphasize the wrongness of a Herald-gone-bad. I still wonder if the Heralds were really good, originally - that maybe they are paying off some cosmic/cosmere debt by playing the hero on Roshar, and if we really knew their full backstory, we might think they deserve the awful tortures they endure between Desolations.

Aggie,

I think you are 100% correct as to the intent of the interlude, and while I did like Ym as a character, I would not like to see him return. I think for most characters, dead must mean dead, so that when the odd character does return, it is unexpected.

Also, with regard to the Heralds not being good originally, I found this snippet which might back you up.

" There were stories of evil men made immortal, then tortured over and over again---like Extes, who had his arms torn off each day for sacrificing his son to the voidbringers in exchange for knowledge of the day of his death. It was just a tale, but tales came from somewhere".

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Aggie,

I think you are 100% correct as to the intent of the interlude, and while I did like Ym as a character, I would not like to see him return. I think for most characters, dead must mean dead, so that when the odd character does return, it is unexpected.

Also, with regard to the Heralds not being good originally, I found this snippet which might back you up.

" There were stories of evil men made immortal, then tortured over and over again---like Extes, who had his arms torn off each day for sacrificing his son to the voidbringers in exchange for knowledge of the day of his death. It was just a tale, but tales came from somewhere".

I mean I don't think it's impossible some of them might not have been the best of men, but I don't think evil men would fight on the side of Honor. And I don't see Tanavast recruiting evil men to fight for him. But it is a cool idea I think.

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Well, that would beg the philosophical question as to whether Honor is related to - or - independent of the traits Good and Evil. Is Evil inherently dishonorable? Can a being be both Evil and Honorable?

Well there is the typical trope of the honorable villian, whether or not I could see that as an actual reality I am not sure. 

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Well, that would beg the philosophical question as to whether Honor is related to - or - independent of the traits Good and Evil. Is Evil inherently dishonorable? Can a being be both Evil and Honorable?

 

Well, technically if you make a promise to kill a man and then never go against that promise, working to fulfill it you would remain within the bounds of honor. If you see it in your minds eye as upholding your honor to get revenge on someone you see as evil. Yeah it's all pretty subjective if you think about it.

Edited by The Invested Beard
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Well, that would beg the philosophical question as to whether Honor is related to - or - independent of the traits Good and Evil. Is Evil inherently dishonorable? Can a being be both Evil and Honorable?

 

Under the definition of honor that we currently have to work with, it seems so. Making promises and keeping them would fit Syl's explanation for how Honorspren work, assuming the promise doesn't conflict with the First Ideal at the very least. And if we take Nale at his word that Szeth would make an ideal Skybreaker (and assume for purposes of argument that he's not insane in this respect) then apparently you can do things that most people would say are evil (ie, murder and lots of it) while still acting withing the bounds established by the cosmic principle of 'honor'. We'll see if Szeth actually becomes one.

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I'd guess that when a Radiant dies their spren goes back to shadesmar, so they would retain their mind, so it's posible that Jasnah could meet his spren when she is in shademar.

Oh wow Ive never thought of that. Always just assumed when a human bonded to a spren dies, so does the spren. Interesting thought.

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Well, that would beg the philosophical question as to whether Honor is related to - or - independent of the traits Good and Evil. Is Evil inherently dishonorable? Can a being be both Evil and Honorable?

Was gonna write some protracted post, but decided against it. Short answer. It would all depend upon the person/culture. It's all grey man.

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While I really liked the character that Brandon created in Ym...I seriously doubt that we will be seeing him again.  I would also be more than a little disappointed if he did make a return.  As some of my fellow sharders have pointed out in this post...you need to maintain a level of danger and finality in your fictional universe.  While it's not a terrible sin to have the occasional character come back from the dead...or to have somehow survived when the audience thinks that they're dead...if you play that card too often, the story gets boring.

 

I think the most interesting part of Ym's interlude was his explanation of the universe.  I believe that Ym is a practitioner of a VERY old theology in the cosmere...perhaps even one that dates back to the shattering...much like the worldsinger / worldbringer philosophy we see elsewhere.

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This was a great topic lol I was rereading WoR early this week and I was thinking if Ym truly was a Truthwatcher, than perhaps he gained this view of the Cosmere through 'Seeing in all worlds' with his abilities. I think if Yms personality was influenced by these powers, than it would be cool to possibly see Renarin fall into that type of Ym attitude, or maybe even make contact with Ym and other Truthwatchers that have died, some how. I'm just saying Truthwatchers powers are pretty vague lol and it'd be cool if they had an understanding of the Cosmere mirroring The ghostbloods or 17th shard.

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