Argent Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 EDIT: also, my main point was that The Broken One is Adonalsium, and the quote was referring to Cryptics, spren of Adonalsium, being the current rulers of Shadesmar. The big problem with this is that you not only assume the Broken One is Adonalsium (which, in and of itself is not an entirely unreasonable assumption), but also that the Cryptics are of him. While a popular theory, the latter part is just that - a theory based on a WoB telling us that there were spren on Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium showed up. From which, some people decided that there must be spren that are Splinters of Adonalsium (which could also be wrong, because we don't know that all spren are Splinters). Your theory is based on two assumptions, whose truthfulness depends on a couple of theories, which were formed on top of another couple of theories. That, to me, is a flimsy structure =\ @Aleksiel, there is a very good chance that Syl crossed over from Shadesmar - it's where the spren live, after all. Which would imply that this is where the Stormfather hangs out most, if not all of the time. And I don't really see spren taking orders from a human - though I will agree that if said human held a chunk of Honor's power, the honorspren might be inclined to listen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macen Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I already proposed this a while ago, so I am repeating myself: What if "3 of the 16 ruled" does not include Odium? What if Odium was on Braize, so there would be Honor, Cultivation + another shard ? My theory in relation to this was that the corners of the surgebinding shard contains "pure" splinter-spren from each shard - Syl honorspren, Wyndle cultivationspren, Cryptics adonalsiumspren, and Stormwarden-spren from the 3rd shard. "Now the broken one rules" - I think the broken one is Adonalsium. Honorspren, cultivationspren and stormspren used to rule Shadesmar, but now Cryptics rule. Damnit Mirainmi, I just posted this same type of idea in another thread then came over here and saw you had already posted it... +1 upvote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 @Aleksiel, there is a very good chance that Syl crossed over from Shadesmar - it's where the spren live, after all. Which would imply that this is where the Stormfather hangs out most, if not all of the time. And I don't really see spren taking orders from a human - though I will agree that if said human held a chunk of Honor's power, the honorspren might be inclined to listen to him. Yet, there is the possibility it didn't happen that way. And even if it did, that still doesn't prove the said theory. Besides there must have been a reason to call Jezere Stormfather, though may be his spren (assuming he had one) had something to do with it. And don't think The Broken One refers to Adonalsium basically because I don't think most reader are Cosmic aware and The Stormlight Archive wouldn't really be series on Roshar if Brandon went in this direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) The big problem with this is that you not only assume the Broken One is Adonalsium (which, in and of itself is not an entirely unreasonable assumption), but also that the Cryptics are of him. While a popular theory, the latter part is just that - a theory based on a WoB telling us that there were spren on Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium showed up. From which, some people decided that there must be spren that are Splinters of Adonalsium (which could also be wrong, because we don't know that all spren are Splinters). Your theory is based on two assumptions, whose truthfulness depends on a couple of theories, which were formed on top of another couple of theories. That, to me, is a flimsy structure =\ @Aleksiel, there is a very good chance that Syl crossed over from Shadesmar - it's where the spren live, after all. Which would imply that this is where the Stormfather hangs out most, if not all of the time. And I don't really see spren taking orders from a human - though I will agree that if said human held a chunk of Honor's power, the honorspren might be inclined to listen to him. The issue I have with the Cryptics=Adonalsiumspren theory is that there is WoB that the spren we saw in tWoK are all of Honor, Cultivation or a mixture. We saw Cryptics in tWoK. Interview: Mar 17th, 2012 Writing for Charity Signing (Verbatim) QuestionA question related to that. There’s an idea going around that all the spren that can Nahel Bond, all Knight Radiant spren are called honorspren, and then Nohadon talks specifically about honorspren. Is that the case? You know, is it just the Windrunner spren, or is it all the spren? Brandon Sanderson I’m going to deal with this in the next book. So I’ll just go ahead and let it be a literal RAFO. It is coming. (interruption, leading Brandon to lose his train of thought) So what we are dealing with here is that all Spren are indeed all pieces of the one who has gone, so those spren are all- except the Windrunner spren, the spren like Syl, have certain umm. ZASNohadon mentioned that "All the spren aren’t as discerning as honorspren." BRANDON SANDERSONSo there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren, if that makes sense, and there is some disagreement among scholars about which ones are really, you know "This is what defines an honorspren". But the spren you are running into are all (something) of either Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture between them. And you can usually tell the ones that are more Honor, and the ones that are more Cultivation. That should be able to be (something). WoB is that there are spren that are splinters of Adonalsium (from Shardlet's transcript of the Seattle signing). Wetlander: So is that like the mists and the Well? Are they… A: They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters. Edit: added first quote Edited January 23, 2014 by hoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Fair enough, that's half an assumption down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The issue I have with the Cryptics=Adonalsiumspren theory is that there is WoB that the spren we saw in tWoK are all of Honor, Cultivation or a mixture. We saw Cryptics in tWoK. But that would mean that e.g. Cusicesh is also not adonalsium spren (another popular theory) - so who is? - the only spren that we've not seen would be i guess the gemhearts spren (reshi islands, chasmfiends). The big problem with this is that you not only assume the Broken One is Adonalsium (which, in and of itself is not an entirely unreasonable assumption), but also that the Cryptics are of him. While a popular theory, the latter part is just that - a theory based on a WoB telling us that there were spren on Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium showed up. From which, some people decided that there must be spren that are Splinters of Adonalsium (which could also be wrong, because we don't know that all spren are Splinters). Your theory is based on two assumptions, whose truthfulness depends on a couple of theories, which were formed on top of another couple of theories. That, to me, is a flimsy structure =\ Just like everything that is not WoB is a theory. And even that changes, as we've seen. Putting up 2 theories together to come up with a third might be a flimsy structure, but, in absolute terms - given how Brandon may turn things around - even theories that might seem very strong can be easily proven false (thinking back everyone can just say - aaahhh, how come i did not see that coming!). I don't think you can classify theories in grained categories, but very loose ones - "likely", "unlikely", "very unlikely". I myself think it "unlikely" - but not impossible, and that is reason enough to put it up here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 But that would mean that e.g. Cusicesh is also not adonalsium spren (another popular theory) - so who is? - the only spren that we've not seen would be i guess the gemhearts spren (reshi islands, chasmfiends). Well, since we've not seen adonalsiumspren in tWoK, we don't know them unless they are in our WoR readings. There are the spren that Dalinar sees in the Purelake, the red storm spren that scare Syl and the oilspren like Ivory. Just because we haven't seen them yet, doesn't mean they don't exist. If we assume that we have seen some that Brandon forgot about when he answered the question, it seems like Cusicesh would be more likely than the Cryptics, who have significant interactions with a main character. Pattern is arguably the second most significant spren in tWoK, so I find it hard to believe that Brandon didn't mean to include him in the quote. Brandon could have changed his thinking while writing WoR, so the quote could also be obsolete. I can understand that you still might believe that the Cryptics are adonalsiumspren. That totally works for me. I think it could turn out to be correct. When you include references to "Cryptics, spren of Adonalsium" as if it were a fact, I struggle, given the WoB. I take it as your style to state your theories in a way that seems to me to overstate the degree of certainty, but I fear that people will read it and take it as fact. If this seems offensive, I apologize . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I have an idea about the shards that exist in the world. Human fabrials, items powered by storm light, are created by binding a spren inside. For some reason Syl does not like the shardplates or shard blades. When oath was broken, shard plates and armor were abandoned. I think that once a knight radiant has spoken all the vows, their armor and weapon changes into shards, or their spren becomes them. When they were abandoned, those spren were permanently trapped, killed possibly by the knights. That is why syl dislikes them, it carries the dead shell of her kind. they seem to her zombie like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think there is another quote that supports the theory in a way Kalak thought. You’re broken too, aren’t you? They all were. This is from the prologue, the conversation between Kalak and Jezrien, so we can say Kalak believes the Heralds have been broken. Not that this proves anything, it just indicates that someone refers to Jezrien as broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dros Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) It's possible the Stormfather and Jezrien have bonded. A deal may have been struck...the Stormfather blocks bonds on the Cognitive side, Jez leads the charge to mop up any bonds that have slipped by the Stormfather in the Physical realm. However, I like the idea that Jezrien may have become the Stormfather in some way like FirstSelector has theorized. There's really no way to know for sure yet, of course, bit it seems one of the themes to the SA is that religion on Roshar is at least loosely based on some truths. Edited January 24, 2014 by Dros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandi Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Also - when the "drunk"/Jezrien (if it is him) says "“Have you seen me?” the man asked with slurred speech." Might he be referring to his own face in the high storms - like what Kaladin sees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Also - when the "drunk"/Jezrien (if it is him) says "“Have you seen me?” the man asked with slurred speech." Might he be referring to his own face in the high storms - like what Kaladin sees? I think he is also standing next to a big statue of himself. He could be referencing that. It would be like Brandon making a joke while revealing who the drunk guy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandi Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think he is also standing next to a big statue of himself. He could be referencing that. It would be like Brandon making a joke while revealing who the drunk guy is. very true - perhaps referring to both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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