DreamEternal Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Ok, I admit, the title is not serious. But my theory is. I am proposing that artifabricians may be using the Rhythms to trap spren in gemstones. To arrive to this hypothesis, I must first state what took me to the conclusion that traping spren in gemstones is a more complex procedure than finding the right gem type and cut. The indication lies in the Ars Arcanun: "The methods of their creation are carefully guarded by the artifabrian community" If one could discover such methods by simply bashing spren with different gemstones based on the ones found in fabrials, there wouldn't be much point in guarding such secrets. However, the listeners discovered how to store spren for later transformation after hearing from humans that it as possible to trap them in gemstones. Why would listeners have such an easier time than humans at learning this method? The answer may lie in what their kind always did since they can remember. To go out during the Highstorm and sing to the right Rhythm may attract an spren that bonds, merges with a listener. Maybe singing does not only attract the spren, but brings the listener close enough to the cognitive realm that they can interact properly. Maybe the single, unified Rhythm they feel when standing before the Rider of Storms is a natural force that transcends the listeners, its vibration permeating the Cognitive Realm and being filtered into the physical by sensitive minds. If a humans somehow learned and memorized a Rhythm, they could bring themselves closer to the cognitive realm by humming to it, perhaps making it easier to attract spren and trap them. As for why I think the Rhythms may not simply attract spren, but make them easier to interact with, I leave this bit of information from a book Shallan read after stealing Jasnah's fake soulcaster: "It claimed that humming, of all things, could make Soulcasting more effective." While I have no idea how artifabricians learned to mimic Listeners and believe the origin of this knowledge was forgotten many desolations ago, I hope to see this theory confirmed or denied now that Rlain is in Urithiru. Edited January 1, 2016 by DreamEternal 12
Moogle Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Navani's notebook says the right cut and type of gem attracts the spren. I'm also pretty sure singing is not required for listeners to bond spren in highstorms - instead, they must feel an emotion which attracts the spren. The idea with rhythms is very interesting, though... the idea that it more easily brings you to the Cognitive seems like it makes sense. Edited January 2, 2016 by Moogle 2
DreamEternal Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 Even then, I never said the cut and type of gem are irrelevant, so there can be room for more factors. Especially if the process is a carefully guarded secret. And I have to reread the WoR interludes, but I am sure that even if attuning to the Rhythms is unnecessary, it is optimal.
natc Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Well there's no guarantee the Listeners use the same method, I suppose, since it seems they worked it out on their own.
DreamEternal Posted January 3, 2016 Author Posted January 3, 2016 Well there's no guarantee the Listeners use the same method, I suppose, since it seems they worked it out on their own. Yet they worked out how to trap spren after humans said it was possible, and how many completely unrelated methods can there be?
natc Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Well, how many completely unrelated body structures for animals are there that result in flight capability? How many completely unrelated ways in the cosmere are there to heal a gunshot to the gut? It's hard to say. 1
DreamEternal Posted January 3, 2016 Author Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) But Sanderson's 3th law calls for depth before width when it comes to magic systems. We should theorize on connrctions and correlations, not dismiss these things as coincidences. Plus, feruchemical gold and stormlight induced regeneration work under very similar mechanisms. Edited January 3, 2016 by DreamEternal 1
natc Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Well I haven't dismissed any connections yet. I'm just trying to not dismiss the possibility of one not existing either. I'm under the impression that neither gold nor stormlight can save you from your head being cleanly severed all the way through (reforming cut parts while the cutting is ongoing aside), since your brain isn't connected to your body and the investiture it was drawing anymore. Hoid has apparently survived that sort of thing, and even grew a new head instead of a new body, so something seems different about that. Then we have Aon healing which due to the programming nature of Selish magic is near surgically precise instead of the body just being told "become normal again" at the top of your lungs.
Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Could the theory that humming supports soulcasting come from the sounds the cryptics make? Just a thought I actually like the idea with the rhythms.
DreamEternal Posted January 3, 2016 Author Posted January 3, 2016 Could the theory that humming supports soulcasting come from the sounds the cryptics make? Just a thought I actually like the idea with the rhythms. The humming of the Cryptics may also be connected to the Rhythms, if I am right and their existence is independent of the listeners. @natc:Do we really know if gold compounding won't save you from decaptation? Other than that, I agree with what you trying to say, that we don't know enough to draw definitive conclusions. If you have any other hypothesis for how spren are captured or why humming helps with Soulcasting, feel free to mention them.
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Kaladin has always claimed the Lighteyes would take his Surgbinding from him. All this talk about trapping Spren makes me very nervous... 2
DreamEternal Posted January 3, 2016 Author Posted January 3, 2016 Kaladin has always claimed the Lighteyes would take his Surgbinding from him. All this talk about trapping Spren makes me very nervous... Fabrials are made from trapping non-sentient spren. I don't think it would be even possible to trap a greater spren without another method.
VoltCruelerz he/him Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Interesting idea. It strikes me as likely that certain harmonics could attract or repel different types of spren. This might also be related to why Pattern says that his name involves numbers. Presumably those numbers are just the equations that make up his fractal appearance, but what would happen if you played music like that or got a fractal antenna and started broadcasting? Would he vibrate? Be attracted? Enlarge?
Stormgate he/him Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Kaladin has always claimed the Lighteyes would take his Surgbinding from him. All this talk about trapping Spren makes me very nervous... He's had everything he's ever cared about ripped from him by lighteyes. Taken like that, it's not unreasonable that they would take his Surgebinding. Of course, it is ridiculous, since only one lighteyes can take away Kaladin's Surgebinding. Kaladin. Edited January 4, 2016 by Stormgate
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Currently they can only trap nonsentient Spren. What's to stop them from discovering a possible way? I think it's a reasonable fear to have, that would worry me haha and to somebody like Kal who had Everything taken from him no wonder he must feel it ten fold.
manavortex she/her Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 The attuning of a rhythm floods you with the corresponding mood to a degree that you can change how you feel (you're anxious, but sing to confidence). That somehow attracts the spren. I'm not sure that it was ever said how they actually bond with them. Humming might help you attuning the right state of mind you need to soulcast..? Was it ever mentioned about Navani drumming on anything? Her fingers, or the like? Making rhythms? I recall faintly, but maybe I just influenced myself.
Oversleep Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 I'd like to point out the very first description of Soulcasting. When Jasnah Soulcasts the rock which fell in Kharbranth to save Taravangian's granddaughter. Shallan describes hearing short sound, kind of low drumming, like distant voices singing clear note in unison or something like that. 3
DreamEternal Posted January 10, 2016 Author Posted January 10, 2016 I'd like to point out the very first description of Soulcasting. When Jasnah Soulcasts the rock which fell in Kharbranth to save Taravangian's granddaughter. Shallan describes hearing short sound, kind of low drumming, like distant voices singing clear note in unison or something like that. Thank you for reminding me of that. That does really support the theory.
Djarskublar he/him Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 So a couple things. One, the Rythmns seem a lot like a certain 16 intents. Another, I came up with this theory independently recently, so there's that. (Saying that as support). I arrived at it from a different direction. I noticed that the listeners seemed to fuse with the spren, or some such. This got me thinking about fabrials, and I ended up deciding that that were essentially the same. You attract the spren with the Rythmns, put it in a container, be it body or gem, and you get something from it. Another thing I noticed, dullform and drabs are very similar. Perhaps the spren provide the equivalent of a Breath and grant the listener the equivalent of a heightening. The effect on their abilities is dependent on what kind of spren they got, of course. This is also the case with fabrials. You put in a spren, and you get a power. You still need stormlight to power them. Speaking of which. Where in He... Roshar... do listeners get the power for throwing lightning in stormform? I seem to recall that the storm hadn't gotten to the point where it would recharge gems yet. That happened when Kal was fighting Szeth. So they had no access to Light. Sure, sure, beard gems, but those would certainly have leaked completely this late in the weeping. I haven't the faintest where it's coming from, this power.
natc Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Clearly it's some fancy storm-equivalent of allomancy and power just teleports in from Odium using the stormspren as a conduit. . . . wait, that actually makes sense. Edited February 19, 2016 by natc
DreamEternal Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Clearly it's some fancy storm-equivalent of allomancy and power just teleports in from Odium using the stormspren as a conduit. . . . wait, that actually makes sense. You expected it to not make sense? It could also explain why the Everstorm is something new: the Heralds could syphon power from Odium while on Braize, but with only a single stubborn Herald and Odium deciding to wait and prepare, the power started to build up during those 4500 Rosharan years, and now it was released as the Everstorm. That is my theory, at least. It has holes, though, like why Honor sent the Heralds instead of sending just the Honorblades, or why does Nin think the Knights Radiant cause desolstions. 1
Oversleep Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 Voidbringers were rumoured to be able to hold Stormlight perfectly. Or maybe they can power themselves from Everstorm? Maybe Everstorm carries Voidlight? Something akin to corrupted Stormlight?This actually could have some merit to it. Highstorms carry Stormlight which is flavored by Honor's Investiture - since Stormfather is spren of Almighty and Cognitive Shadow of Tavanast and whatnot....Everstorm's Investiture is in turn flavored by Odium - it doesn't infuse the gems, so humans and Surgebinders cannot use it - by it infuses all Voidbringers on its path. Possibly Voidbringers can't hold the power infinitely long, but long enough that combined with cyclical Everstorm recharging them it seems as if they're able to hold it all the time.Maybe a 5th level Radiant with Shardplate also can hold Stormlight perfectly?
heridfel Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Speaking of which. Where in He... Roshar... do listeners get the power for throwing lightning in stormform? I seem to recall that the storm hadn't gotten to the point where it would recharge gems yet. That happened when Kal was fighting Szeth. So they had no access to Light. Sure, sure, beard gems, but those would certainly have leaked completely this late in the weeping. I haven't the faintest where it's coming from, this power. We know that there are sources of Investiture other than the highstorms on Roshar thanks to Lift. Her gift (turning food into Light) means that the Old Magic can be another source. Since stormform is all void-bringy, I'd say it's coming straight from wherever the Heralds go between desolations.
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