flowers Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hi. I've been lurking around these parts for a while now. Thought I'd post my own ideas and see what others think. We know shardblades are not a creation of human technology. Common theories state that they must've been made by the Heralds or spren. A sword is just a tool, and I see no reason why spren would be limited to that particular tool/shape. I propose that shardblades were created by spren for a specific person, and assumed whatever form such person desired/required at the time. Since Kaladin is not trained in the sword (nor does he seem inclined to learn) I am betting Syl will be providing him with a Shardspear. I am looking forward to seeing Adolin vs Kaladin with a shardspear 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Or even just a fabrialspear that can block a shardblade, honestly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Welcome, flowers. There are many here who agree with you, I among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Can someone upvote flowers for me? It's not letting me from my phone for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meddler Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Common theory and hopefully it is a by product of saying the fifth ideal. Might also explain how the humans betrayed the spren, abandoning the shard weapons and armor somehow harmed or killed the spren linked to their Nahel bonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Can someone upvote flowers for me? It's not letting me from my phone for some reason Done 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I am expecting this as well to be honest, it would be wrong to be for Kaladin to suddenly pick up a sword. We have seen the textev of people consistantly saying how incredible he is with a spear, so why would he suddenly swap to a sword, something he isnt trained to fight. No I think him gaining a shardspear will be one step closer to showing that darkeyes are not beneath the lighteyes. Afterall a sword is a lighteyes weapon and darkeyed soldiers arent allowed to wield them. I expect him to gain something similar to the Ashandarei, but a lot cooler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 This was actually one of the first things that I thought would be awesome as soon as I finished the book a year ago. Also if you do some digging you'll find that a "Shardspear" is actually referenced on this site a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Done thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyring Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well, giving him something looking slightly like an ashandarei would be a nice little bow to a certain favorite author of Brandons too. And it would really need to have a cutting edge for it to be efficent as a shard, to use its strength. A pure shardspear as we think of spears would not use the shards abilities very well I´d say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deddinty Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 We tend to call it a shardspear but I think most of us are picturing something more glaive like. Personally I always picture a double bladed glaive just to up the awesome factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Well, giving him something looking slightly like an ashandarei would be a nice little bow to a certain favorite author of Brandons too. And it would really need to have a cutting edge for it to be efficent as a shard, to use its strength. A pure shardspear as we think of spears would not use the shards abilities very well I´d say.Maybe not - but if the shaft is unbreakable, it could also be a badass nonlethal weapon. You could actually knock people out with it rather than slice their souls in half, even though the sharp bit would be deadly when used with malicious intent. A weapon fitting for a warrior in an age where chaos is as much of an issue as the enemy itself. Edited January 15, 2014 by Swimmingly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybal Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Maybe not - but if the shaft is unbreakable, it could also be a badass nonlethal weapon. You could actually knock people out with it rather than slice their souls in half, even though the sharp bit would be deadly when used with malicious intent. A weapon fitting for a warrior in an age where chaos is as much of an issue as the enemy itself. Especially important for someone who, though very good at killing, does not like doing it. It would fit well with his nature and his past of learning to heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Especially important for someone who, though very good at killing, does not like doing it. It would fit well with his nature and his past of learning to heal.I like the idea of him battling Sadeas to a standstill, then seeming to strike a final blow - but flipping it at the last moment so the blunt end knocks him out instead of the pointy bit skewering his skull. And setting his eyes on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnut Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Common theory and hopefully it is a by product of saying the fifth ideal. Might also explain how the humans betrayed the spren, abandoning the shard weapons and armor somehow harmed or killed the spren linked to their Nahel bonds. I did actually read the Recreance part last night and Dalinar feels dread and "hears" a scream, could that be the scream of dying Spren? This is just after he mentions that the shards glow fades. "A terrible feeling struck him. A sense of immense tragedy, of pain and betrayal. Stopping where he stood, he gasped, hand to his chest What was that dreadful feeling, that screaming he swore he could almost hear? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moist_von_Lipwig Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I did actually read the Recreance part last night and Dalinar feels dread and "hears" a scream, could that be the scream of dying Spren? This is just after he mentions that the shards glow fades. "A terrible feeling struck him. A sense of immense tragedy, of pain and betrayal. Stopping where he stood, he gasped, hand to his chest What was that dreadful feeling, that screaming he swore he could almost hear? Great catch Binnut, upvote for you. I remember thinking the wording here was odd when reading the book, but I didn't think much of it. This leads a lot of weight to the Recreance being the betrayal. Was this just the Radiants giving up their Nahel bonds? with some of the spren dying and others becoming like Syl perhaps? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremen Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I did actually read the Recreance part last night and Dalinar feels dread and "hears" a scream, could that be the scream of dying Spren? This is just after he mentions that the shards glow fades. Awesome catch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowers Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The thing I don't get about the recreance is why did they leave like that? I'm pretty sure the Recreance is the betrayal that Jasnah mentioned. Seems obvious. What I don't understand is why? The feeling I got as I read that part was that the KR gave up on humankind for whatever reason, but even then it seems odd that they should give up like they did. Let's say that they were somehow betrayed by the kings/humankind/whatever and gave up their shards in protest: 1. There is clearly a deep bond between the knight and the spren. If the shards are linked to the spren and the knights knew of it (and I can't imagine how they could not know) I don't see why they'd betray the sprean just because they themselves were somehow betrayed by the rest of mankind. Doesn't make sense. 2. Considering the enormous power of the shards, if their use was somehow linked to bringing about the desolations destroying or hiding them would be the reasonable thing to do. Considering the above I think that the KR were somehow betrayed by both humankind AND "sprenkind" as well. They gave up their shards in protest against both. The why I cannot fathom. If we remember that according to Jasnah the spren have complex organized societies and a high level of sentience, perhaps they're not perfect little creatures incapable of doing harm. They may have their own interests, and it may happen that those interests collided with humankind's after the last desolation. What happened may have been kind of like when a friend of yours cheats on another friend of yours and you know about it. Whatever you say or do may be seen as a betrayal by either (or both) sides. . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moist_von_Lipwig Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 you raise a good point Flowers, the way in which the Radiants abandoned their shards does seem quite peculiar. The fact that they walked up to a fort full of soldiers, dropped their shards, and walked off without a word. They seemingly made no statement of why they were disbanding. I wonder why they would choose to leave the shards up for grabs? instead hiding them somewhere. It seems like they were making a statement. "You don't appreciate what we do? Here you go, you try doing it." or "Here you go, you do better" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Maybe they figured that the Heralds must have been onto something. I mean, the Heralds were basically their General-Gods for all intents and purposes. Maybe one of the Heralds (in their decomposing morality) told the KR that the presence of men bonded to spren was what made Odium able to visit Roshar in Desolations. I for one could see Darkness believing this and telling his order about it. Then the KR would believe it was a great sacrifice to give up surgebinding and the Nahel bond, but by doing so they were protecting mankind. For all we know, the Herald could actually be right. Surgebinders could be providing a conduit for Odium somehow. Lot's of maybes, but I could see that playing out: 1. Heralds leave their swords because they are sick of it and can't do it anymore. 2. They see that the desolations have stopped and the Oathpact seems to be in force because of Taln. 3. They slowly become less honorable, perhaps corrupted by Odium to despise the very ideals they sought to uphold. 4. They reason, maybe poorly, maybe correctly, that the KR don't need to keep fighting the voidbringers. If they gave up like the Heralds, then the opposition would just stop. 5. Some Herald finally suggests/orders it en masse, and a KR order agrees to do it. 6. Recreance day. Deadly to spren, betrayal as seen by man (KR refusing to fight anymore), and extremely hard but seemingly self-sacrificing on the part of the KR. 7. Aftermath: Voidbringers go away, Herald seems vindicated, and then carries the thought further. This propels Darkness into a homocidal quest to 'save mankind' by killing all surgebinders, thereby preventing the return of the voidbringers. Edit: Woah! Sorry, this topic got way off course! Um… yes, Kaladin will probably get a shardspear at some point, but not in WoR. A sword is just a tool, probably not with any special symbolism in itself. Although the design would have to be quite unique for it to be effective as a shardspear. Haft:Hilt is a pretty big ratio when comparing spear to sword. Edited January 17, 2014 by Darkness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I would love a Shardspear, but I'm still not sure why people insist on it. It is true that Kaladin is great with a spear, but he picked it up and got the hang of it surprisingly fast. It wasn't because he was naturally drawn to spears - it was just all that was available. I'm not so certain he would have chosen one over a sword if he had the chance. I don't think he ever says he wouldn't train with a sword, either. He seems to have a natural ability to learn things like that, and I don't think it is exclusive to spears. It will make him unique to wield a spear where others have swords, so I'm rooting for it, but it would make just as much sense for him to find swords entertaining and natural to him as well. Can anyone provide a quote or a reference to where he says he wouldn't use a sword? I mean he leaves the Shardblade, but that is on principle, not because it is a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Can anyone provide a quote or a reference to where he says he wouldn't use a sword? I mean he leaves the Shardblade, but that is on principle, not because it is a sword.Don't think he actually says he won't use a sword but he associates the swords with being a lighteyes and the spear with darkeyes so that would probably play a large psychological role in him avoiding learning the sword. He'd have to change his views on lighteyes quite a bit before he'd agree to take up the sword Edited January 17, 2014 by Awesomeness summoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateRob Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Can we also imagine Lift gaining a Shard Healing-shiv. Seriously though I've always imagined Kaladin gaining some kind of Shardspear. It seems pretty likely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't see the Radiants giving up these deadly weapons without a purpose. The Knights maintained order and discipline until the end. If they were corrupt, they would have kept the Shards. Having a snit or protesting just doesn't fit for me. I think they left the Shards despite knowing they would be abused. They thought that people having the Shards would be a net benefit. I think they also made arrangements to have the Way of Kings and the Dawnchant preserved at Vanrial. I think they had a plan and leaving the Shards was part of it. What? Shardspear? On topic, you say? I suppose. I could see it either way. I think he'll turn out to be an amazing fighter with any weapon. If he can choose a weapon, he'll make sure it will do the job required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromptj Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I think that Kaladin will get a shardblade to set him up for getting an honorshard later. I think the Radiants left behind their weapons to serve as some kind of defence should the voidbringers ever come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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