Most Satisfying Part?

[Pathfinder]

It's not like they have no warriors at all, they're not completely ignorant to fighting or culturally isolated. But the chances of them having any shardbearers with that particular taboo in effect are very slim. You can at least train in unarmed combat discreetly and pull the self defense excuse. Szeth's exile didn't even involve weapons at all. Just blasphemy.

I'm sure the shamannate knows more about surgebinding than they publicly let on if they've had custody of 8-9 honorblades for upwards to a couple thousand years. Clearly the Ars Arcanum author found these millenia old terms without too much trouble.

Kaladin figures out how to activate half of his powers by complete accident, so clearly performing surgebinding itself isn't difficult. Skill is a different matter, but Szeth had way longer to practice.

Windrunner powers inherently don't seem to need much fine control at all compared to lightweaving; you can get satisfactory results with basic lashings just feeling the general directions, and the others are just "touch the thing and think about it". The skill burden is mostly on choosing the moment of application for best effect, not actually controlling the powers.

Yes they do have warriors, all of which are held to a very strict law. A law so strict that Szeth gives up everything because of it. Now I am not argueing whether the shamans are hypocrits or not. Nor am I argueing that they are abusing their power. All I am pointing out is that Szeth did in fact receive combat training, and did in fact receive training in the use of an honorblade. Just because windrunner powers seem easier than lightweaver powers does not equate you being able to change your gravity just because you are told you can. Kaladin needed to not only know it was possible, but practice, have information from Teft and Sigzil, and have a physical example he could base his actions off of. It wasn't an amorphous concept, he saw it done. Practicing katas is all about seeing the form, mimicking the form, and practicing the form till it becomes natural. Thats training. 

 

edit: and thats even using a radiant as an example. not some random individual picking up a sword that doesn't even fully work due to the individuals perception on how it should work. 

 

edit2: changed out caps for bold as it makes it sound like i am yelling, when in actuality i am only using it for emphasis

Edited January 6, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Garfield]

Windrunner powers inherently don't seem to need much fine control at all compared to lightweaving; you can get satisfactory results with basic lashings just feeling the general directions, and the others are just "touch the thing and think about it". The skill burden is mostly on choosing the moment of application for best effect, not actually controlling the powers.

 

 

 

 

Indeed, particularly compared to lightweaving. And Jasnah described soulcasting as potentially hazardous if you learn it unsupervised, making Shallan swear that she doesn t experiment on her own.

 

With the windrunner abilities, I guess it s a bit like learning to ride a bicycle, or swim. Once you get a feel for it, it works pretty much automated, all you have to do is consuming large quantities of stormlight to power it over a prolonged period of time.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Garfield

[Citadel16 he/him]

the best part was

 

 

When Adolin freakin' stabbed Sadeas in the eye!! I was all like "EAT IT
SADEAS! PUT THAT IN YOUR JUICEBOX AND SUCK IT!!"

[natc]

As far as I remember actually shifting gravity didn't take too much practicing (though it took a few tries), it's tripping over himself while doing it at full sprint all the time that convinced him to just settle for jumping off and on a wall a few hundred times to get used to the sensation. And that's really all that comes to mind that Kaladin practiced extensively. That and sticking bridgemen to random surfaces in combat. After seeing a guy run on walls and ceilings in a fight that couldn't have been more than a few minutes long.

If there's any better testament to the lack of skill intensiveness im it all it's when Kaladin actually does better in aerial combat when he stops thinking about it outright.

Edited January 6, 2016 by natc

[The Invested Beard]

Hoid's story about the guy who raced the storm. I loves me some Hoid storytelling.

[Pathfinder]

As far as I remember actually shifting gravity didn't take too much practicing (though it took a few tries), it's tripping over himself while doing it at full sprint all the time that convinced him to just settle for jumping off and on a wall a few hundred times to get used to the sensation. And that's really all that comes to mind that Kaladin practiced extensively. That and sticking bridgemen to random surfaces in combat. After seeing a guy run on walls and ceilings in a fight that couldn't have been more than a few minutes long.

If there's any better testament to the lack of skill intensiveness im it all it's when Kaladin actually does better in aerial combat when he stops thinking about it outright.

And yet a sword that is fathoms more powerful than a knight bonded, is limited to the knowledge and perception of the wielder. honorblades do not take 10 heartbeats to summon and yet it does for Szeth. If even that needs training to use, why wouldn't the lashes? And as i pointed out, we are showing how Kaladin, a knight radiant, with the urging of Syl that he could accomplish these feats was able to do them relatively naturally. Just like his fighting skill came natural to him while he was bonded to syl. Szeth is not bonded to a spren. Szeth is just a normal rosharian human being that picked up an honorblade. I can pick up a bazooka and figure out where to pull the trigger. That doesn't mean i will know how to aim it, or not blow myself up. To further expand on it, that also doesn't mean i will know the blast radius, that it is best used against armor, whats its range. In other words how to use it in combat situations, which is exactly what Szeth was in throughout both novels. 

[DreamEternal]

If there's any better testament to the lack of skill intensiveness im it all it's when Kaladin actually does better in aerial combat when he stops thinking about it outright.

Szeth was shaken, scared, had way less stormlight efficience and had an infinitely worst weapon.

If he was thinking straight, he could have beaten Kaladin on ground by his more creative and skillful use of lashings, and he could have scored a lucky hit on the air if he focused on dodging when Kal charged him.

As proof of Szeth's superior skill with surges, look at his precise using of lashings to dodge and confuse enemy shardbearers. While I think we can't know who of both is a better weapon user, I'd say Kakadin still has some to learn about gravitation.

[Garfield]

honorblades do not take 10 heartbeats to summon and yet it does for Szeth.

 

 

That one had me wondering, too. Deadspren shardblades take 10 heartbeats to borrow life from the holder, honorblades obviously don't have this limitation. Was that sloppy writing or deliberate. And if that was deliberate, why did Szeth have this idea that only after 10 heartbeats his blade will form.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Garfield

[Pathfinder]

Szeth was shaken, scared, had way less stormlight efficience and had an infinitely worst weapon.

If he was thinking straight, he could have beaten Kaladin on ground by his more creative and skillful use of lashings, and he could have scored a lucky hit on the air if he focused on dodging when Kal charged him.

As proof of Szeth's superior skill with surges, look at his precise using of lashings to dodge and confuse enemy shardbearers. While I think we can't know who of both is a better weapon user, I'd say Kakadin still has some to learn about gravitation.

But thats my point. Szeth is not centuries old. He never had a chance to see someone else use the honorblade. His own preconceived notions on it limited its capabilities. If it is that easy to limit the swords capabilities, then why would it be so easy for him to use everything else it can do? I think it is a massive stretch to imagine that Szeth just picked up the honorblade, and went "hmmm ah the surge of gravitation means i can fly. so i shall fly!" and there he goes flying. Just like picking up any old sword doesn't mean you know how to hold it, block with it, and swing it. All of which he does around full shardbearers and expert swordsmen. If the surges were all that kept him ahead of the game, he would have lost his head long ago.

 

the use of the surges to confuse individuals who have never seen this ability before, never fought against this ability before, and do not know the limits of that ability. that does not denote skill. that just means szeth has an ace that they dont and that kaladin had too later

[Pathfinder]

That one had me wondering, too. Deadspren shardblades take 10 heartbeats to borrow life, honorblades obviously don't have this limitation. Was that sloppy writing or deliberate.

Double post just to share information. It has been widely stated and i do believe there is concrete WoB on it, that the only reason the honorblade took 10 heartbeats to summon, was because Szeth thought there needed to be. Just like Shallan convinced there had to be 10 to summon pattern when she didn't. that changed when she confronted what pattern was, then it became instant

[Stormgate he/him]

Double post just to share information. It has been widely stated and i do believe there is concrete WoB on it, that the only reason the honorblade took 10 heartbeats to summon, was because Szeth thought there needed to be. Just like Shallan convinced there had to be 10 to summon pattern when she didn't. that changed when she confronted what pattern was, then it became instant

I would like to mention that even though Pattern was dead for a large part of Shallan's life, the rule still applies. I am pretty sure we have it confirmed by WoB.

[Pathfinder]

I would like to mention that even though Pattern was dead for a large part of Shallan's life, the rule still applies. I am pretty sure we have it confirmed by WoB.

He was not dead as in shardblade form. It states in the book that right after Shallan's father placed pattern in the box, he disappeared. Just no one checked the box after, and Shallan convinced herself it was still there. So to just clarify what i wrote, because i reread it and it can sound confusing:

 

sprenblade: instant unless radiant convinces herself it is 10 heartbeats

honorblade: instant unless user believes it takes 10 heartbeats

shardblade: 10 heartbeats period

 

edit: @stormgate, if i misunderstood your post, i apologize in advance! lol

Edited January 6, 2016 by Pathfinder

[IndigoAjah he/him]

We probably haven't seen much of the practice that any characters have done, because it's not especially interesting to write/read. I don't think you can extrapolate how much ANY character has practiced any skills at all from the text

[Stormgate he/him]

He was not dead as in shardblade form. It states in the book that right after Shallan's father placed pattern in the box, he disappeared. Just no one checked the box after, and Shallan convinced herself it was still there. So to just clarify what i wrote, because i reread it and it can sound confusing:

 

sprenblade: instant unless radiant convinces herself it is 10 heartbeats

honorblade: instant unless user believes it takes 10 heartbeats

shardblade: 10 heartbeats period

 

edit: @stormgate, if i misunderstood your post, i apologize in advance! lol

You didn't misunderstand. Now that I think about it, to quote The Princess Bride, "He's only mostly dead." Pattern immediately disappeared from the safe, returning to wherever he was before. He 'died' shortly after, apparently still bonded to Shallan.

[AerionBFII he/him]

The Shinovar people are not allowed to use weapons. And once he was Truthless I highly doubt that he trained with a Shardblade fencing master.

When Nin spoke to Szeth, Szeth mentioned the Shin had Shards and he would need Shards to fight them he said the Shinovar peoples Stone Shamans were powerful enough to reclaim the Honorblade from whoever had killed him. This seems to imply a great level of skill and not just Braggadocio. Also they are allowed to use weapons, it's just when they pick one up they have to live the rest of their lives as warrior.

[natc]

Further adding fuel to the fire for the "Szeth is a stone shaman" theory.

[Oversleep]

May it burn high and bright.

@WEZ313, can I quote your post in the "Szeth is a Stone Shaman" theory thread?

[AerionBFII he/him]

Ok sure :3

Edited January 9, 2016 by WEZ313

[Who Sharded?]

"You sent him to the sky to die, assassin, but the sky and the winds are mine.  I claim them, as I now claim your life."  

 

Kaladin has all the best fist pumping moments.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Who Sharded?

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

Definitely when Adolin took down Sadeas. I was sreaming in my head "JUST KILL HIM". And then he did. In epic fashion. I felt chills.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

Bad[chull] actually bypassed the filter last I tried (as in, without the space. Separate them and it catches it), but people say it anyway. So yes.

Kinda dealing with that problem right now actually. Someone seemed to think I intentionally tried to skirt the rules, even though I censored myself. Didn't know that it as one word was considered a work around. Good to know.

But besides all that goodness, and behind Adolin offing Sadeas, it would have to be Kal saving Dalinar and his troops at the tower. A good 2nd place I think.

Edited January 23, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler

[natc]

Definitely when Adolin took down Sadeas. I was sreaming in my head "JUST KILL HIM". And then he did. In epic fashion. I felt chills.

You are actually Ruin then?

[muco]

Dalinar giving up Shardblade for Kaladin.

 

Scene leading up to Kaladin and Adolin fighting the 4 shard bearers.

[scifan he/him]

• When Kaladin grabs the spear to run towards what seems like certain doom towards the end of TWOK - only to discover the gems in the Parshendi beards... followed closely by the saying the 2nd oath...

• When Dalinar breaks through and realizes the bridgemen were fighting... and that they weren't dead.

• When Kaladin and Shallan meet during the meeting after Szeth had attacked again.

• When Kaladin actually starts to work though the reasoning behind what his oaths actually meant, and why they were important.

• And actually figuring out how how important Elhokar actually is to Dalinar.

• When Kaladin says the 3rd oath.

• When Dalinar is floating down after being sent to the sky to die...

Edited February 8, 2016 by scifan

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

You are actually Ruin then?

I can accept that.