TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Sunbird said: I'm not saying that all Muslims are evil either--just that other people being afraid is a rational response after all the terrorist attacks, and that I think calling it a "phobia" is unjustified. "Once bitten, twice shy," to over-simplify my thinking. Fear of terrorists is rational; fear of an entire belief system because those terrorists happened to espouse some form of it is not. The Muslims I've talked to are all horrified and saddened by what those terrorists are doing in the name of their religion, and quick to point out that the beliefs of these terrorists bear little resemblance to those of many Muslims. Think of how most Christians see the Westboro Baptists. An unfortunate splinter group at best; a cult at worst. It's a small but vocal minority that seems intent on giving the majority a bad name. Fearing all Christians because of the Westboro Baptists would be to judge an entire faith based on the actions of a few. 1
Delightful Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 45 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said: Fear of terrorists is rational; fear of an entire belief system because those terrorists happened to espouse some form of it is not. The Muslims I've talked to are all horrified and saddened by what those terrorists are doing in the name of their religion, and quick to point out that the beliefs of these terrorists bear little resemblance to those of many Muslims. Think of how most Christians see the Westboro Baptists. An unfortunate splinter group at best; a cult at worst. It's a small but vocal minority that seems intent on giving the majority a bad name. Fearing all Christians because of the Westboro Baptists would be to judge an entire faith based on the actions of a few. That's a really good analogy. I never quite thought of it like that. It would be like judging Jews based on Neturei Karta. Yikes. Guess every group has the crazy ones.... 1
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 2 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said: Fear of terrorists is rational; fear of an entire belief system because those terrorists happened to espouse some form of it is not. The Muslims I've talked to are all horrified and saddened by what those terrorists are doing in the name of their religion, and quick to point out that the beliefs of these terrorists bear little resemblance to those of many Muslims. It's a good way to look at it, since not only are most Muslims not terrorists, the vast majority are not. How many, for example, of the thousands of American Muslims have actually committed terrorist acts. I can only think of three and one attempt at it. If it was rational to believe that Muslims were violent reactionaries that number would be considerably higher. Thus, Islamophobia is irrational: having a reason is not the same as having a rational reason. 1 hour ago, Delightful said: It would be like judging Jews based on Neturei Karta. Yikes. Guess every group has the crazy ones.... Which gets at a flip side: why does every group have "the crazy ones"? If a belief system is allegedly a peaceful one, how can it produce unpeaceful results? A lot of these kumba-yah interpretations are more modern interpretations. You don't have to go far before you find examples of "kill the nonbelievers" in those ancient holy texts that these religions view as inerrant and the Word of God. And that's a problem. So long as, say, Christians believe that God at one point commanded the execution of adulterers and that was morally good, there will be excuses for the crazy ones to act out. This seems to me like a contrary belief.
Kaymyth she/her Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Humanity in general is stuck in a developmental phase where our sociological and technological progress has far outpaced our evolution. We have cars and planes and trains. We have the internet. We have nuclear weapons. We have a vast global economy and the ability to connect with people on the other side of the world. In the meantime, our brains are still wired for Stone Age tribal social systems. We're built for an Us vs Them situation where the Us consists of our family tribe, and Them is everyone else. There are a limited number of people our brains can track in the Us bin, so there wind up being quite a few Thems. Religion is a really easy way to separate the Us versus the Them, and it's been used to that effect over and over and over again. Religion isn't the problem. Our inability to acknowledge and find solutions to our instinctive need to gather our family groups and hoard our resources together because you never know when the next famine is coming in a hunter-gatherer society IS. We can't even get people to agree that the basics of science exist, let alone how to apply that science to our sociological development. And it keeps feeding into itself because a bunch of people have gathered together as another Us has decided that science is a threat to their beliefs and must be condemned. This is a big storming problem. 5
Oversleep Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 18 hours ago, Sunbird said: Also, the word "Islamophobia." When you call something a phobia, you're asserting that the fear of whatever is irrational. Fear of Islam is NOT irrational, not after the heinous crimes that have been committed in recent months and years by self-professed Muslims in the name of their beliefs. *prepares for backlash* In fact, the only mistake you're doing is wrongly associating all followers of Islam with terrorists. The part about phobia is good.
Sunbird she/her Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 18 hours ago, Sunbird said: Also, the word "Islamophobia." When you call something a phobia, you're asserting that the fear of whatever is irrational. Fear of Islam is NOT irrational, not after the heinous crimes that have been committed in recent months and years by self-professed Muslims in the name of their beliefs. *prepares for backlash* I would like to clarify something. I specifically used the phase "self-professed Muslims" to indicate that many of the perpetrators of recent terrorist attacks tell everyone they are doing it for reasons in connection with Islam. That does not mean that I think they are actually following the tenets of the religion they claim to belong to. (Similar to how those who claim to be "Mormon" and practice polygamy nowadays are not following the established teachings of actual Mormonism, or how any "Christian" who commits violence against gays doesn't deserve to call themselves a Christian because they are so egregiously violating Jesus's teaching to "love one another.") 24 minutes ago, Oversleep said: In fact, the only mistake you're doing is wrongly associating all followers of Islam with terrorists. At no point did I ever associate all followers of Islam with terrorism. See this post I made: 15 hours ago, Sunbird said: I'm not saying that all Muslims are evil either--just that other people being afraid is a rational response after all the terrorist attacks, and that I think calling it a "phobia" is unjustified. "Once bitten, twice shy," to over-simplify my thinking.
Oversleep Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sunbird said: At no point did I ever associate all followers of Islam with terrorism. You kind of did in your first post. See, you're not afraid of Muslims. 'Islamophobia', when looked at from linguistic point of view, means phobia of islam while you're talking about being afraid of muslim terrorists. That way you implicitly associated 'muslim terrorists' with 'muslims'. 19 hours ago, Sunbird said: Fear of Islam is NOT irrational It should be "fear of islamic terrorists' or whatever, but the way it's worded here it means being afraid of the whole religion. And fear of the whole religion is irrational. Do you see my point? I'm not sure I explained myself clearly. Edited June 27, 2016 by Oversleep 2
Sunbird she/her Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Okay, let me try to explain what I'm thinking another way. If you have a friend who gets mauled by a dog and afterward your friend is afraid of dogs in general, do you call that a phobia? I don't think so. If a woman gets raped and is thereafter wary of men as a general group, is that a phobia? No. It's fear brought on by past events and the inability to know which dog or which man or which person who calls themselves a Muslim is or isn't going to do something harmful. Your conscious mind might know logically that not all dogs or all men or all Muslims go around attacking people, but it's very hard to supplant an idea that's gotten into your head from experience with an idea that you are trying to teach yourself through mental self-coaching. I don't think that a fear of a general group of people is irrational when you can't immediately distinguish which individuals of that group are dangerous and which aren't.
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 28 minutes ago, Sunbird said: Okay, let me try to explain what I'm thinking another way. If you have a friend who gets mauled by a dog and afterward your friend is afraid of dogs in general, do you call that a phobia? I don't think so. If a woman gets raped and is thereafter wary of men as a general group, is that a phobia? No. It's fear brought on by past events and the inability to know which dog or which man or which person who calls themselves a Muslim is or isn't going to do something harmful. Your conscious mind might know logically that not all dogs or all men or all Muslims go around attacking people, but it's very hard to supplant an idea that's gotten into your head from experience with an idea that you are trying to teach yourself through mental self-coaching. I don't think that a fear of a general group of people is irrational when you can't immediately distinguish which individuals of that group are dangerous and which aren't. Each of your examples, though, IS an example of a phobia. As I said before, a reason to fear is not necessarily a rational reason to fear. For a real life example: a philosophy professor of mine claimed an irrational fear of flying. The reason/source of this fear was that he saw a plane that crashed as it landed. As a result, even though he knows all the statistics, knows it is the safest way to travel, he has a fear of flying that incapacitate him in that regard due to a traumatic event. He has a reason, it may even resonate with us, but it is not rational.
Queen Elsa Steelheart she/her Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 21 hours ago, Delightful said: It *is* a good excuse to drink lots of hot chocolate...... True. True. Hot chocolate is rather @Delightful 1
Sunbird she/her Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Orlion Determined said: Each of your examples, though, IS an example of a phobia. I'm going to have to disagree with this assessment, but because I don't want to generate any more hard feelings than I probably already have by sharing my opinion on this topic, I suggest we drop it.
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Patron: *walks up to desk* Me: How may I help you? Patron: I'm fine, how are you? No. Just no. Do not chastise or shame me for dispensing with stupid pleasantries and trying to solve your problem in a timely manner. What you're doing is not "teaching me manners." It's a power play and nothing else. Knock it off. 2
Kaymyth she/her Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 1 hour ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said: Patron: *walks up to desk* Me: How may I help you? Patron: I'm fine, how are you? No. Just no. Do not chastise or shame me for dispensing with stupid pleasantries and trying to solve your problem in a timely manner. What you're doing is not "teaching me manners." It's a power play and nothing else. Knock it off. Some of them may actually be doing it on pure reflex. Certain things get so ingrained into one's social patter that they just pop out of your mouth whether they're appropriate or not.
Delightful Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kaymyth said: Some of them may actually be doing it on pure reflex. Certain things get so ingrained into one's social patter that they just pop out of your mouth whether they're appropriate or not. True. It's always funny when you say hi and the other person replies with "good thanks how are you". Actually I was surprised this week, a couple times I went into shops intending to just ask for what I wanted and had the sales assistant start with "hello how are you" and being....super....*friendly*.
Orlion Blight he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 25 minutes ago, Kaymyth said: Some of them may actually be doing it on pure reflex. Certain things get so ingrained into one's social patter that they just pop out of your mouth whether they're appropriate or not. Waitress: Enjoy your meal! Me: You too! 1
Quiver he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 This is less a peeve, more a source of anxiety: When I'm the last to post in a topic, or say something, and no one says anything,and my post is just...sitting there. I start thinking "Oh no, I've killed the topic/offended people/they don't say something because they hate me now," and... Yeah. Not fun. And a major reason why, I think, I come across as needy or clingy, or... I dunno? For which I apologise. (and now the worrying begins) 3
Mestiv he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 40 minutes ago, Quiver said: (and now the worrying begins) And now his worry is ended. You're welcome. 1
Delightful Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 10 hours ago, Orlion Determined said: Waitress: Enjoy your meal! Me: You too! Happy birthday! you too! 1
Pinnacle-Ferring he/him Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 People who think they're being really friendly or "cool" but just come off as annoying and/or creepy. To a lesser extent, genuinely friendly and nice people who try to strike up a conversation with you, but you're *really* not in the mood or busy and they just WON'T TAKE THE HINT!
Delightful Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pinnacle-Ferring said: People who think they're being really friendly or "cool" but just come off as annoying and/or creepy. To a lesser extent, genuinely friendly and nice people who try to strike up a conversation with you, but you're *really* not in the mood or busy and they just WON'T TAKE THE HINT! People trying to be cool are the worst. They'd do so much better to just be who they are. Edited June 29, 2016 by Delightful Okay not actually the worst, just not much fun to deal with.
Sunbird she/her Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pinnacle-Ferring said: People who think they're being really friendly or "cool" but just come off as annoying and/or creepy. To a lesser extent, genuinely friendly and nice people who try to strike up a conversation with you, but you're *really* not in the mood or busy and they just WON'T TAKE THE HINT! This always happens to me when I'm trying to read a book. Lots of times I'll be sitting on the couch with my book and a family member will come up and start talking at me, and after a few minutes I think the conversation is over because they stop talking, so I go back to reading, and then they continue talking, missing the obvious sign that I'm not paying attention anymore. So I feel obligated to pull my nose out of the book again and say, "Could you repeat that? I wasn't listening" to make myself seem polite. Or I'll be eating my packed lunch in the break room at work, wearing headphones and listening to music and CLEARLY not wanting to be bothered, but some people are completely oblivious and interrupt me anyway. I know I've posted it on this forum like three times already, but here is a relevant video by Julian Smith: Edited June 29, 2016 by Sunbird 2
Sunbird she/her Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Ok, my annoyances for today all come from cooking dinner tonight. 1. The faucet in my kitchen sink. It's the kind where you lift a lever to get the water going and move it left or right to adjust the temperature. Well, whenever I turn the water on, I'll lift the lever enough to get it going the speed I want, but as soon as I take my hand off the lever, it flops down and slows down the waterflow like A LOT. And when I turn the water off, it keeps dripping and wasting water. 2. I keep a bag of quick-prep gyoza (Japanese pot stickers) in the freezer, and I can fit about 8 or 9 of them into my frying pan at once, which is about the right amount of food for me. Well, when I opened the bag tonight, there were 11 gyoza left. So my options were 1) cook 8 and have only 3 left next time I want gyoza, or 2) cook as many as I can fit in the pan, eat them, and cook the rest and eat them too--annoying because it means I have to clean out the pan between batches. 3. Cleaning out the frypan after making gyoza. I always use nonstick spray and oil to try to prevent them from sticking to the pan, but most of the time it doesn't work and they leave chunks of dough on the pan that are a nightmare to scrape off.
Delightful Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Sunbird said: Ok, my annoyances for today all come from cooking dinner tonight. 1. The faucet in my kitchen sink. It's the kind where you lift a lever to get the water going and move it left or right to adjust the temperature. Well, whenever I turn the water on, I'll lift the lever enough to get it going the speed I want, but as soon as I take my hand off the lever, it flops down and slows down the waterflow like A LOT. And when I turn the water off, it keeps dripping and wasting water. 2. I keep a bag of quick-prep gyoza (Japanese pot stickers) in the freezer, and I can fit about 8 or 9 of them into my frying pan at once, which is about the right amount of food for me. Well, when I opened the bag tonight, there were 11 gyoza left. So my options were 1) cook 8 and have only 3 left next time I want gyoza, or 2) cook as many as I can fit in the pan, eat them, and cook the rest and eat them too--annoying because it means I have to clean out the pan between batches. 3. Cleaning out the frypan after making gyoza. I always use nonstick spray and oil to try to prevent them from sticking to the pan, but most of the time it doesn't work and they leave chunks of dough on the pan that are a nightmare to scrape off. Cook 8 and buy more before you need more? 1
Sunbird she/her Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 10 hours ago, Delightful said: Cook 8 and buy more before you need more? Probably the best solution. I ended up just cooking all of them so I could get rid of the bag until I buy more.
Kaymyth she/her Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 13 hours ago, Sunbird said: Ok, my annoyances for today all come from cooking dinner tonight. 1. The faucet in my kitchen sink. It's the kind where you lift a lever to get the water going and move it left or right to adjust the temperature. Well, whenever I turn the water on, I'll lift the lever enough to get it going the speed I want, but as soon as I take my hand off the lever, it flops down and slows down the waterflow like A LOT. And when I turn the water off, it keeps dripping and wasting water. 2. I keep a bag of quick-prep gyoza (Japanese pot stickers) in the freezer, and I can fit about 8 or 9 of them into my frying pan at once, which is about the right amount of food for me. Well, when I opened the bag tonight, there were 11 gyoza left. So my options were 1) cook 8 and have only 3 left next time I want gyoza, or 2) cook as many as I can fit in the pan, eat them, and cook the rest and eat them too--annoying because it means I have to clean out the pan between batches. 3. Cleaning out the frypan after making gyoza. I always use nonstick spray and oil to try to prevent them from sticking to the pan, but most of the time it doesn't work and they leave chunks of dough on the pan that are a nightmare to scrape off. You need a new faucet.
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