happyman Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I think that another shard is involved and that trell is a red herring. At best I think that another shard might be posing as a god from scardials lore. (Aka Trell) This reminds me of nothing so much as the statement "Scholars now believe that the Illiad was not written by Homer. It was instead written by a different man of the same name." "Trell" is the name we are using for the foreign shard, assuming there is one, on Scadrial. He/she can't be a red herring, because whatever Trell is, it's the unknown influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 really? is this confirmed? perhaps it refers to a being more powerful than adonalsium as well, seeing as how we have it like that in the ranking system. From the alloy of law annotations: "The other little worldbuilding item of note here is the idea of what Wayne calls the “God Beyond,” which is an idea that has begun to creep into society, the idea that there is a greater God of the universe beyond people like Harmony or Kelsier. It’s somewhat analogous to some of the Gnostic beliefs in early Christianity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datan Nomlibash Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Maybe Trell will be a faith or way of life Marasi will decide to follow. What were the four faiths anyway? Sliverism, Survivorism, Pathism, but what's the last one? Vinism? Maybe the fourth religious movement is atheism, or it might just be a mistake like the the original szeth ending in words of radience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Right above you I have the fourth faith listed... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haradion Drogon Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I humbly Submit that "Trell" is a Shard we haven't yet seen, but is actively allied to both Odium and Autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Whoever the invincible man chooses as his god must be a badass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I humbly Submit that "Trell" is a Shard we haven't yet seen, but is actively allied to both Odium and Autonomy. Was it not explicitly said at some point that we already know of (the true identity of) Trell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel16 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Autonomy... whom I believe is Bavadin. (I think there is a WoB on it but I'm not sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Autonomy... whom I believe is Bavadin. (I think there is a WoB on it but I'm not sure)There is an WoB that Bavadin holds autonomy, but the identity of Trell remains unknow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightGradient Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm of a mind that Trell is either Autonomy, or a new radical thought. (straightens aluminum hat) What Shard(besides Ruin) would make use of Hemalurgy? Endowment. I know it doesn't really fit in with Paalms plan, but we have to keep in mind what we're told often throughout the book; she's crazy. Autonomy is the best candidate, but Endowment makes sense to me. Endowment would love Hemalurgy. It's very similar to Awakening, but you give greater gifts than Breath. Plus, equality seems to be its thing, since Awakening is usable by anyone. (takes off aluminum hat) Its probably Autonomy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashardie Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I feel like Trell is probably Kelsier: 1. We know from WOB that he is still around 2. We also know that in order for Harmony to be truly balanced, he would have had to create a Splinter from Ruin as Preservation is already weakened from Investing part of himself into humans, and would therefore be overpowered by the extra Ruin investiture 3. The curse "Rust and Ruin" is very suggestive that the Splinter of Ruin created has its own Intent, as it is spoken as though it were a separate entity. 4. So what if, when Sazed picked up both Shards and removed a Splinter of Ruin, Kelsier's cognitive shadow (or whatever you might call it) seized it, and was ultimately corrupted by it's Intent? We know that the new metal has rust on it, and that Harmony doesn't know what it is, so it could be that "Kelsier as Rust" has created his own hemalurgic spikes, which would be completely separate of anything of Harmony (or Preservation and Ruin) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) I feel like Trell is probably Kelsier: 1. We know from WOB that he is still around 2. We also know that in order for Harmony to be truly balanced, he would have had to create a Splinter from Ruin as Preservation is already weakened from Investing part of himself into humans, and would therefore be overpowered by the extra Ruin investiture 3. The curse "Rust and Ruin" is very suggestive that the Splinter of Ruin created has its own Intent, as it is spoken as though it were a separate entity. 4. So what if, when Sazed picked up both Shards and removed a Splinter of Ruin, Kelsier's cognitive shadow (or whatever you might call it) seized it, and was ultimately corrupted by it's Intent? We know that the new metal has rust on it, and that Harmony doesn't know what it is, so it could be that "Kelsier as Rust" has created his own hemalurgic spikes, which would be completely separate of anything of Harmony (or Preservation and Ruin) Another Ruster! Welcome to the club! There's lots of leftover pizza in the corner; I was hoping more people would show up. One minor detail, semantics really, is that Rust is not a splinter. A splinter is a piece of a Shard's power that has its own sapience, and we know from a WoB that there are no splinters of Preservation or Ruin during the time of the Wax and Wayne novels. Edited January 10, 2016 by King's Twit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Ah but what about a cognitive sliver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashardie Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Ahh, thank you!! That pizza was delicious.... Edit to add: not sure how to add a quote here to reference a previous post... Also, thanks for the semantics correction! I couldn't remember whether I should say splinter or sliver, or if there's another term that I'm not aware of. I guess we just have to figure out what to call this *puts on sunglasses* pizza shard.... I'll show myself out.... Edited January 10, 2016 by dashardie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Ah but what about a cognitive sliver? Are you referring to Kelsier or Ati? I think there's been WoB confirmation that Kelsier is still hanging around Scadrial somewhere. I'm still a little on the fence about whether or not Ati still has a cognitive shadow, but since Leras's disappeared, or at least stopped being able to manifest in the physical realm, when he died, I think that Ati's might be gone as well. If the Rust piece of Ruin's power doesn't grant an intrinsic knowledge of Hemalurgy, Ati being the holder would explain how Paalm was able to do so much with spikes. Also, thanks for the semantics correction! I couldn't remember whether I should say splinter or sliver, or if there's another term that I'm not aware of. I guess we just have to figure out what to call this *puts on sunglasses* pizza shard.... While I do like pizza Shard, I've taken to calling this piece of Ruin's power a minor Shard, since it appears to function in the same way as a Shard but on a smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyloKen Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 In regards to the unknown shard: I believe for several reasons that the shard is not Odium Odium is very busy on Roshar as is. Odium is terrified of Harmony, so would not be likely to challenge him in person, especially not on Harmony's own world. However, he might send a friend to do the dirty work.... Paalm's entire purpose is to set herself and everyone else free of Harmony's influence and control. If another shard was controlling her, it would logically follow that she would reject this control as well. Unless that shard was influencing her towards "freedom".... So, if it's not Odium, who else could it be? My thoughts point to none other than our friend Bavadin, holding the shard Autonomy. Why? Well, It seems that Rayse (Odium) and Bavadin may be working together. This theory is not hugely supported, but the writer of The Letter did mention them and his grudges against them respectively in the same sentence, pointing to the fact that they may have more connection than we know. A full theory as to why Rayse and Bavadin may be working together was posted by Spire and can be found here. Bavadin's shard is Autonomy, or "freedom from external control or influence; independence." This seems to be exactly what Paalm is fighting for the whole time. What other shard's influence could one who so clearly wants freedom have fallen under save freedom itself? The biggest argument I have seen against Autonomy being the unknown shard is the creatures that Paalm creates through Hemalurgy, likely with the same metal that is in her. This seems to be against Autonomy's intent, taking away the people affected's freedom to choose. However, we know that human sentience on Scadrial comes directly from Preservation. I postulate that the Paalm's Hemalurgic use of Autonomy's metal in this case removes any part/influence of another shard from the person the Hemalurgy is used on. This thus would remove Preservation from them, taking away their sentience and reverting them to a primal, beast-like state. Brandon said that this shard is one we've already seen. Dominion, Devotion, and Honor have all been splintered, it isn't of Harmony, for reasons shown above I don't believe that it is Odium, Cultivation is hiding on Roshar, and Endowment seems content on Nalthis. This leaves only Autonomy. Thank you for reading my theory, any comments and responses will be appreciated! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Flesh Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yes, I agree KyloRen. Excellent job of laying it out. I think Autonomy is by far the most likely candidate, although I also think that Autonomy is Trell. 1. Tregalism (the religion of Trell) is a religion of night, (and Nalt is of day). Specifically, the religion focuses on the the night vs. day. 2. White Sand, where Badavin is located, is a planet that is tidally locked, so one side faces the sun and the other faces away. One is perpetually light, the other dark. I do not think these two things are a coincidence. With the combination of evidence that Trell is active on Scadiral, such as Miles being a follower, and with evidence that Badavin is also active on Scadiral, I think it is logical to assume that they are one in the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alomantisist Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Trell is mentioned by Sazed in Mistborn the Final Empire. Trellism (I forgot the precise name of the religion) is the first religion Sazed suggests Vin convert to...Trell therefore must be based on a real god of the cosmere. I disagree slightly. Yes Trell could be an actual god on Scadrial, but look at the mythology. Trell is represented by the stars and is said to have a brother (who's name escapes me) represented by the sun and that the sun wanted to block out the stars. If this isn't a quick re-skin of Preservation and Ruin I don't know what is. Edited February 4, 2016 by Alomantisist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Flesh Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 If this isn't a quick re-skin of Preservation and Ruin I don't know what is. Hm, that's a really good point. It does fit the Preservation-Ruin dichotomy really well. I still think Trell is Badavin, but still, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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