killersquirrel59 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 So it has pretty much been established that Mare's "betrayal" was her use of Tin which allowed the Inquisitors to detect her and Kelsier in the palace. This makes it clear that the Lord Ruler knew she was a Tineye. Given this, why was she sent to the pits instead of being kept and spiked? Normally on capturing a Skaa misting, it would make sense that the Inquisitors would keep her alive and prisoner until they were ready to make a new Inquisitor so they could spike her Tin. She arrived a few weeks after Kelsier, so the Inquisitors definitely did something with her. If it was simple interrogation, as Kelsier theorizes, it makes no sense that Kelsier wouldn't have been similarly interrogated. Has there been any information on this? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 as far as i know, there is no information. however, since ruin directed the events that led to the downfall of the lord ruler, it seems possible that the order to send her to the pits was given undr the influence of ruin, to make kelsier snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 It's been a good long while, but wasn't Mare different and mentally broken when she did show up? Who says they DIDN"T spike her to gain the Tin and then still send her to the Pits to torment Kelsier. TLR could/would have had the knowledge to spike without killing probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 It's been a good long while, but wasn't Mare different and mentally broken when she did show up? Who says they DIDN"T spike her to gain the Tin and then still send her to the Pits to torment Kelsier. TLR could/would have had the knowledge to spike without killing probably. Pretty hard to tell. Even if she was mentally broken, being captured, sentenced to a death mine, and having your husband think you betrayed him, seems like it could break someone in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 "Ruin did it" does seem like a perfectly viable solution. Assuming the Lord Ruler gave her over to the Inquisitors or just the Ministry, it would have been relatively easy for a few modified messages to get her sent there. This ends with Kelsier Snapping, Luthadel revolting, and the Lord Ruler dying. However, there is reason for her to be interrogated even if Kelsier was not - She's from a clearly Allomantic bloodline. It could have been just a case of finding out about parents, siblings or children she had. We know that the Inquisitors like to go for them root and branch, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 "Ruin did it" seems to apply liberal amounts of Handwavium, but I'll take it if there is nothing else. I can see her being interrogated longer on her parentage to find if there were more, but it still makes no sense they wouldn't spike her. There is no evidence anywhere I've seen to hint that anyone in The Final Empire knew a way to spike someone without killing them, and I find it hard to believe that the Inquisitors wouldn't have made use of this method in other cases if they did (e.g. taking "unworthy" nobles and just taking their power for the good of the Steel Ministry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Did the Inquisitors even use tin spikes? They don't have eyes so that negates the most useful aspect of tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Well Marsh did. I'm not sure how that helps him read in the dark but it did. Somehow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Since Inquisitors prefer spiking directly into someone, it could just be as simple as them not needing a new spike. They'd probably keep the Feruchemists they found around, because they're rare, but Tin is both reasonably common (IIRC) and not that valuable. They probably figure they can find a new Tineye next time they're inducting an Inquisitor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Since Inquisitors prefer spiking directly into someone, it could just be as simple as them not needing a new spike. They'd probably keep the Feruchemists they found around, because they're rare, but Tin is both reasonably common (IIRC) and not that valuable. They probably figure they can find a new Tineye next time they're inducting an Inquisitor. Hmmm...while that is possible, it doesn't seem likely to me. There are VERY few Inquisitors, mostly because they have to kill 8 Mistings, a Mistborn (or Seer if they can find one), and a Feruchemist to make each one. I can't see them wasting resources like that. Keep in mind, they aren't going to be able to spike the noble Allomancers very often, as a noble would have to storm up royally to end up in the hands of the Inquisitors. And while noble Allomancers are about 1 in 100 people, Skaa Mistings are about 1 in 10,000 people. If we take Kelsier's word on the size of Luthadel (approximately 1,000,000 Skaa in and around Luthadel), that means there are approximately 100 Skaa Mistings in the city at any given time. Taking the math further, assuming an even distribution of metals (not counting the undiscovered metals), there are approximately 12 Skaa Tineyes in and around Luthadel at any given time. Finding 12 people out of a population of 1,000,000 is not an easy feat, even accounting for Bronze and the ability to pierce Copper Clouds. It just makes no sense they would throw away something so valuable to them. Even if for some reason the Inquisitors didn't want her, you'd think at the very least the Lord Ruler would have had her spiked to make a Kandra blessing spike for the Blessing of Awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 This is a really good question. Completely ignoring all the true comments about wasted Hemalurgic resources, an Allomancer should NEVER have been allowed near the Pits, let alone into the crevices. Allomancy DESTROYS Atium crystals. 1 flake of Tin and Mare could have set Atium production back significantly for DECADES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hmmm...while that is possible, it doesn't seem likely to me. There are VERY few Inquisitors, mostly because they have to kill 8 Mistings, a Mistborn (or Seer if they can find one), and a Feruchemist to make each one. I can't see them wasting resources like that. Keep in mind, they aren't going to be able to spike the noble Allomancers very often, as a noble would have to storm up royally to end up in the hands of the Inquisitors. And while noble Allomancers are about 1 in 100 people, Skaa Mistings are about 1 in 10,000 people. If we take Kelsier's word on the size of Luthadel (approximately 1,000,000 Skaa in and around Luthadel), that means there are approximately 100 Skaa Mistings in the city at any given time. Taking the math further, assuming an even distribution of metals (not counting the undiscovered metals), there are approximately 12 Skaa Tineyes in and around Luthadel at any given time. Finding 12 people out of a population of 1,000,000 is not an easy feat, even accounting for Bronze and the ability to pierce Copper Clouds. It just makes no sense they would throw away something so valuable to them. Even if for some reason the Inquisitors didn't want her, you'd think at the very least the Lord Ruler would have had her spiked to make a Kandra blessing spike for the Blessing of Awareness. The blessing of Awareness is made from stolen human attributes, not Allomantic ones, that'd just be a waste of a tineye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Maybe Tin gets spiked out of someone's left buttcheek, uncomfortable, but hardly lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 It wouldn't really matter if Spiking for Tin was non-lethal. If the Inquisitors were to use Mare for her Tin then she would be killed. They wouldn't let Mare live no matter where she would end up. They were effective because no one really knew how they were made. Letting someone who was used in the production of an Inquisitor live would be kinda stupid. Even if the person in question was unaware of what was happening they wouldn't risk it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hmmm...while that is possible, it doesn't seem likely to me. There are VERY few Inquisitors, mostly because they have to kill 8 Mistings, a Mistborn (or Seer if they can find one), and a Feruchemist to make each one. I can't see them wasting resources like that. I'm pretty sure that the Lord Ruler limits their numbers. Because there are so few Inquisitors, and they live so long, they don't recruit often. I wouldn't be surprised if Marsh was the next Inquisitor created after Mare's imprisonment. Tineyes aren't common, sure, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to wait years on the off chance they need one. Now, if it were a Seer or a Feruchemist, they'd probably do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure that the Lord Ruler limits their numbers. Because there are so few Inquisitors, and they live so long, they don't recruit often. I wouldn't be surprised if Marsh was the next Inquisitor created after Mare's imprisonment. Tineyes aren't common, sure, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to wait years on the off chance they need one. Now, if it were a Seer or a Feruchemist, they'd probably do it. Yeah I think Feruchemists would be the limiting factor, they tend to be even better hidden than Skaa allomancers, are also less common and additionally can't be found through regular use of Bronze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah I think Feruchemists would be the limiting factor, they tend to be even better hidden than Skaa allomancers, are also less common and additionally can't be found through regular use of Bronze. Inquisitors re-use spikes (they barely any had fresh Feruchemical gold spikes, iirc). You don't necessarily need a bunch of Feruchemists every time you want to make a new Inquisitor. Unless I'm misinterpreting you? I'll agree that Feruchemists are the limiting factor in the expansion of the Inquisitor population, but they're not needed to maintain their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure that the Lord Ruler limits their numbers. Because there are so few Inquisitors, and they live so long, they don't recruit often. I wouldn't be surprised if Marsh was the next Inquisitor created after Mare's imprisonment. Tineyes aren't common, sure, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to wait years on the off chance they need one. Now, if it were a Seer or a Feruchemist, they'd probably do it. Live so long? I have never seen anything even hinting that Inquisitors have a longer than normal human lifespan. Do you have a source for this? It notes that they have varying lifespans, but nothing to say that those are longer than human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Live so long? I have never seen anything even hinting that Inquisitors have a longer than normal human lifespan. Do you have a source for this? It notes that they have varying lifespans, but nothing to say that those are longer than human. Chaos How long is the lifespan of an Inquisitor? Brandon Sanderson It depends on the powers they're given. Some burn up quickly, and others are extended. In general though they do tend to have slightly longer lives. Since Marsh has the missing bag of atiums he's going to be around for a while. (source) Possible reason for this is their link to Preservation: Kaimipono (16 October 2008) Why exactly do some spike removals kill (dual eye, or central spike) but most don't? Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008) For the same reason that a bullet through one part of the body will kill you, but getting shot somewhere else won't. The physical form of a person who has undergone a Hemalurgic transformation is no longer what we think of it. The direct connection to Preservation starts keeping them alive. (Imagine stapling someone's soul to another person's soul, their life essence, then stapling that to the power of creation itself, giving you a conduit directly to power, letting you leech it and steal it.) That power keeps you alive, despite the wounds. Some of the time, the other staples are enough to keep you alive, even if one is pulled out. Others are too important. (source) See also some discussion on the matter here. (Note: very old thread, I don't necessarily believe the same things now that I said then.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Inquisitors re-use spikes (they barely any had fresh Feruchemical gold spikes, iirc). You don't necessarily need a bunch of Feruchemists every time you want to make a new Inquisitor. Unless I'm misinterpreting you? I'll agree that Feruchemists are the limiting factor in the expansion of the Inquisitor population, but they're not needed to maintain their numbers. Well they can do that with Allomancer spikes too, my point was just that I don't think they have trouble finding enough Mistings for a new Inquisitor, that wouldn't be the factor that's limiting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well they can do that with Allomancer spikes too, my point was just that I don't think they have trouble finding enough Mistings for a new Inquisitor, that wouldn't be the factor that's limiting them. Then I misinterpreted you. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Live so long? I have never seen anything even hinting that Inquisitors have a longer than normal human lifespan. Do you have a source for this? It notes that they have varying lifespans, but nothing to say that those are longer than human. It's in Mistborn: The Final Empire. It's a revelation when Marsh discovers they actually age - They're believed to be immortal Marsh stood quietly for a moment. “They’re . . . strange, Kell. I don’t know. They seem to have all of the Allomantic powers, so I assume that they were once Mistborn. I can’t find out much else about them—though I do know that they age.” “Really?” Kelsier said with interest. “So, they’re not immortal?” “No,” Marsh said. “The obligators say that Inquisitors change occasionally. The creatures are very long-lived, but they do eventually die of old age. New ones must be recruited from noblemen ranks. They’re people, Kell—they’ve just been . . . changed.” Emphasis mine. Edited November 7, 2015 by Tarion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 Posted November 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Ok. Marsh does say "very long-lived". I missed that. However, there is no sense of scale to "very long-lived" this is a world where the average Skaa lifespan can't be much over 40, and even among nobles probably not beyond 50 or 60, just on technological medical grounds. Very long-lived could very easily still just mean like 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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