Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well yeah. The state of affairs on Roshar is evidence enough for that. But the specification of "original" also tells me that there either was someone else, or there will be. Heck, it might wind up being Dalinar. No need for Spoiler tags in General Theories ever, dear. And I dunno. I guess it could... but I don't see how Odium could be that sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I know, but I felt like using them. Unless there's something preventing Shards on the same planet from Splintering each other. But something's going on with Honor - whether it's still a Shard or a bunch of Splinters at this point - that hasn't been going on before. Which makes me wonder if maybe Honor isn't still around. A fakeout, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Still, spoiler tags are universally annoying. What do you mean, something special is happening with Honor? I don't think so. Honor simply set up a special journal thing. I see no reason why there would be special protections for Shards on their own worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's possible that Shards native to the same planet can't Splinter each other, after all, you'd think Ruin wouldda Splintred Preservation right quick if he could, unless he figured he'd blow up the world first, then finish dealing with Preservation. Which turned out to be dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ah, but Odium could have some special ability to do that Ruin didn't. He's the most dangerous of the Shards. Having such a power would be a good reason why that would be. If anything, Odium is the special one, as the letter writer explicitly points out. I trust his judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ruin couldn't destroy Preservation. Unless that has to do with Preservation's nature. And it's not just a journal thing. These visions, re-emergence of old powers, etc, are all happening right as the True Desolation is approaching. I don't think that's a coincidence, and if you subscribe to the theory that Aona's Splinters are running the Dor on auto-pilot now, this isn't consistent with auto-pilot mode. Honor is choosing people for a reason, at the time they need to be chosen. I think there's more to it than we've been looking at so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's just like the Well of Ascension activating Preservation's mist-Snapping. The True Desolation is probably Roshar's version of the same thing. There's no inconsistency or anything unique going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Except nothing on Scadrial was ever Splintered. Both Shards were whole and held, and we don't yet know enough about how being whole vs. splintered affects the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Preservation may have been held, technically, the the consciousness holding it was severely weakened, so that the mists and stuff were running on autopilot. And we still don't *know* if Honor has been Splintered or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ah, okay, your issue is whether Splintering would influence that sort of automatic activation of things. That's what I wasn't clear on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leinton Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 If you want to assume that a Shard can't Splinter Shards from the same world, then Odium would have another way to keep anyone else from holding Honor. What do you think that might be? Unless you think that he found someone to hold Honor that he trusts, and just kills the holder off every time the Shard's nature took over and finds another replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 This a map i made of a reverse Sel a while ago. (please ignore bad photo editing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well, Honor's "journal" could function in sort of the same way that Vin was picked to hold Preservation's power despite Preservation's mind being absent. We don't know what that is, but we know that it can take a person in a specific set of circumstances and give them some weight when it comes to Shard goings on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hmm. To match up with Chaos' Principle of Intent, it could be that those who are most in sync with the shards intent that get the most connection with the shards' messages and powers. So Dalinar is getting the visions from Honor because he is extremely honorable. Kaladin gets smaller ones too: riding the highstorm is the one I'm thinking of, and it struck me as similar to Dalinar's because Bridge Four had to hold him down during the highstorm to keep him from going out and couldn't wake him up. So that would mean Vin was chosen by Preservation because she has a strong sense of preservation. Which works, because throughout the books she's very much about protecting and keeping things safe, from self-preservation at the beginning to a wanting to protect Elend and the crew, to a sense that she needs to preserve all of humanity, at which point she was able to take the shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I see that but Sazed seems to imply that she was chosen by Preservation when she was very young. I tend to see it more as Preservation's strong influence on her made a natural already strong sense of wanting preservation even stronger. @ I always thought that Vin could not take Preservation because of the Hemalurgic spike that was still in her ear. It was enough of Ruin to hold Preservation off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hmm. To match up with Chaos' Principle of Intent, it could be that those who are most in sync with the shards intent that get the most connection with the shards' messages and powers. So Dalinar is getting the visions from Honor because he is extremely honorable. Kaladin gets smaller ones too: riding the highstorm is the one I'm thinking of, and it struck me as similar to Dalinar's because Bridge Four had to hold him down during the highstorm to keep him from going out and couldn't wake him up. So that would mean Vin was chosen by Preservation because she has a strong sense of preservation. Which works, because throughout the books she's very much about protecting and keeping things safe, from self-preservation at the beginning to a wanting to protect Elend and the crew, to a sense that she needs to preserve all of humanity, at which point she was able to take the shard. Wow, I never even considered that. I don't know if it's true, but it's an interesting analysis. I buy it a little more with Dalinar. He really is of Honor. Kaladin too. Man, Principle of Intent, is there anything you can't do? I see that but Sazed seems to imply that she was chosen by Preservation when she was very young. I tend to see it more as Preservation's strong influence on her made a natural already strong sense of wanting preservation even stronger. @ I always thought that Vin could not take Preservation because of the Hemalurgic spike that was still in her ear. It was enough of Ruin to hold Preservation off. That is indeed why Vin could not take Preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I always thought that Vin could not take Preservation because of the Hemalurgic spike that was still in her ear. It was enough of Ruin to hold Preservation off. Yes, but there was something more as well. Otherwise Vin would have Ascended the first time she took in the mists on the night she killed the Lord Ruler. She wasn't ready at that point. I'd guess at some point during Book 3, she became fully in tune with Preservation, so the only thing standing in the way was her earring. Once Marsh took care of that, everything else fell into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes, but there was something more as well. Otherwise Vin would have Ascended the first time she took in the mists on the night she killed the Lord Ruler. She wasn't ready at that point. I'd guess at some point during Book 3, she became fully in tune with Preservation, so the only thing standing in the way was her earring. Once Marsh took care of that, everything else fell into place. Right. The other two factors were that she was chosen by Preservation, and also because she held the Well's power, "attuning" her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Ah, then the Well would be the attuner. I can't believe I forgot that! And the only time (other than the end) when she doesn't have her earring is when she's trapped by Yomen - inside where the mists can't reach her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, she was still chosen at a young age, but apparently holding the Well was important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Plus the fact that Leras was dead, so the shards were "desperate" for a host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 For the sake of getting us back on somewhat of a topic (Sorry Shadesmar and Sel!): We're assuming that there were four factors which allowed Vin to become Preservation. 1. Her own personality being in line with the Shard's intent (Chaos' theory as hijacked by Feather) 2. Her Attuning via the Well of Ascension (Stated by Brandon) 3. The lack of the influence of Ruin (via a hemalurgic spike) 4. The lack of a Cognitive Mind attatched to the Shard (after Leras' death) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 There is also: 5. Mystery fact. We don't know one of the reasons why (Sazed says so). It may have something to do with Spiritual DNA, or some other cosmere term. 6. She's an extremely intuitive Mistborn. She is very experienced and very powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 and dont forget, (or at least, I think so) 7. Kelsier was around after Leras' death (he became a Sliver at this point, or so I've heard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykeon Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Elantrians could teleport there using Aons. Getting back though.... ...they're pretty much screwed. Which makes me wonder why Hoid is runnign away from them when they're so desperate as to travel to another star with almost Nil chance of return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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