Joe ST he/him Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Elantrians could teleport there using Aons. Getting back though.... or can they? They'd need to know and comprehend exact distances through space/time/etc. That's some doing.
lordofsoup Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 and the well needs to be completely refilled before it power can be taken. The seventeenth shard seems like an organization that spans more than one world.
Firiel she/her Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Hmm. To match up with Chaos' Principle of Intent, it could be that those who are most in sync with the shards intent that get the most connection with the shards' messages and powers. So Dalinar is getting the visions from Honor because he is extremely honorable. Kaladin gets smaller ones too: riding the highstorm is the one I'm thinking of, and it struck me as similar to Dalinar's because Bridge Four had to hold him down during the highstorm to keep him from going out and couldn't wake him up. So that would mean Vin was chosen by Preservation because she has a strong sense of preservation. Which works, because throughout the books she's very much about protecting and keeping things safe, from self-preservation at the beginning to a wanting to protect Elend and the crew, to a sense that she needs to preserve all of humanity, at which point she was able to take the shard. I think this makes a lot of sense. Taking another example from Mistborn, we know that Ruin was more effective with some people than others... the narrative itself says that people who were more "unstable" were more likely to be caught in Ruin's influence (Zane put his spike in himself, if I remember correctly). And what is instability, really, but a tendency towards ruin (of yourself or others)? It'd be interesting to know of something like this is also the case on other planets. For instance, are Elantrians chosen because of their Compassion/Love/Charity? Or what about Returned and Endowment? Hmmm...
Chaos he/him Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 Don't worry about being off topic here. It happens. If you go off topic, that's probably because it's more interesting I think this makes a lot of sense. Taking another example from Mistborn, we know that Ruin was more effective with some people than others... the narrative itself says that people who were more "unstable" were more likely to be caught in Ruin's influence (Zane put his spike in himself, if I remember correctly). And what is instability, really, but a tendency towards ruin (of yourself or others)? It'd be interesting to know of something like this is also the case on other planets. For instance, are Elantrians chosen because of their Compassion/Love/Charity? Or what about Returned and Endowment? Hmmm... Oh wow, this is simply brilliant. I never connected Zane-Ruin with the Principle of Intent, but in effect, it is exactly the Principle in action. I'm ready to espouse Feather's idea and integrate it into the Principle (I think its due for a revision sometime). I'm not certain about this reasoning for how Elantrians are chosen. Er, I mean, I like the idea behind this a ton and I'd love it to be true, but mist-Snapping didn't necessarily require people to act more in line with Preservation. ...Well, now that I think about it, Allomancers do have more Preservation in them. It's just that it doesn't seem to connect with their personalities, really. So there would be spiritual DNA things that would be out of the scope of this idea (if there was such a deep connection with personality and spiritual DNA, how could you be both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist?). Since we don't know how the Shaod works, and it appears to operate like the Deepness, I can't say the Principle is in effect. I'd like it to be, though However, for the Returned, I'm more likely to buy that. We're fairly positive Endowment is alive, which means that Returning is more akin to Ruin's influence on Zane. Ruin's pressure was active pressure (whereas mist-Snapping wasn't really an active choice of Preservation, near the end. It was just following old orders), and is in line with the Principle. I think it is quite likely a similar function works for Endowment and Returning. Unrelated and slightly more on topic--what if the Transportation Aon can just shift you to Shadesmar, and that's how you can get to Roshar? Or some other Aon that accesses it. That's certainly a lot easier than advanced astronomy techniques. I think I recall that Scadrialans can access Shadesmar, but I can't imagine how. God metals, maybe.
Firiel she/her Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I'm not certain about this reasoning for how Elantrians are chosen. Er, I mean, I like the idea behind this a ton and I'd love it to be true, but mist-Snapping didn't necessarily require people to act more in line with Preservation. That's true... and it may be completely different because Aona and Skai are shattered. I'd like to say that maybe Elantrians are more prone to being loving/compassionate, as evidenced by all the good works the people of a working Elantris did... but they were just as awful as regular society after the Reod... so it sounds like it's more a matter of circumstances than anything else. IF, however, Aona did still have some sort of consciousness/will despite being shattered, doesn't it make sense that Raoden would be "chosen" (specifically and at a certain time) for the Shaod? I mean, he seems like a pretty compassionate guy... he truly cares for others more than for himself. But again, there's nothing that solid here. Unrelated and slightly more on topic--what if the Transportation Aon can just shift you to Shadesmar, and that's how you can get to Roshar? Or some other Aon that accesses it. That's certainly a lot easier than advanced astronomy techniques. True, but it doesn't really solve the problem of how they could get back... they're still stuck millions of miles away from Elantris and probably wouldn't be able to work a Shadesmar-accessing Aon any easier than a traveling one. UNLESS... the effectiveness of the spells isn't actually based on the proximity to Elantris, but rather to the corresponding area of Shadesmar... the two realms seem to mirror each other, so while there's no evidence for this, I don't think it's completely off the wall. So maybe they could manipulate either Shadesmar or themselves in such a way that they are always close to that particular part of Shadesmar. Maybe the reason it's dangerous to enter is because all the travelers have screwed with it so much in an attempt to make it possible to get back.
FeatherWriter she/her Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 I'm ready to espouse Feather's idea and integrate it into the Principle (I think its due for a revision sometime). Chaos, if you use my theory, I am totally putting a little astrisk next to my Principle of Intent. I am grabbing whatever credit I can. Though I'll probably have to change from "Theory Leader" to something less exclusive. 1
lordofsoup Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 I can't remember where I saw it, but I thought Aona was Relief, not Compassion.
Chaos he/him Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 That's true... and it may be completely different because Aona and Skai are shattered. I'd like to say that maybe Elantrians are more prone to being loving/compassionate, as evidenced by all the good works the people of a working Elantris did... but they were just as awful as regular society after the Reod... so it sounds like it's more a matter of circumstances than anything else. IF, however, Aona did still have some sort of consciousness/will despite being shattered, doesn't it make sense that Raoden would be "chosen" (specifically and at a certain time) for the Shaod? I mean, he seems like a pretty compassionate guy... he truly cares for others more than for himself. But again, there's nothing that solid here. Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it makes a ton of sense, and I want this to be the case. I'm simply being cautious, since we don't know enough to make a choice. However, I think this is an awesome explanation for why Raoden was chosen. I wonder if we could see similar rationalizations with other Elantrians? True, but it doesn't really solve the problem of how they could get back... they're still stuck millions of miles away from Elantris and probably wouldn't be able to work a Shadesmar-accessing Aon any easier than a traveling one. UNLESS... the effectiveness of the spells isn't actually based on the proximity to Elantris, but rather to the corresponding area of Shadesmar... the two realms seem to mirror each other, so while there's no evidence for this, I don't think it's completely off the wall. So maybe they could manipulate either Shadesmar or themselves in such a way that they are always close to that particular part of Shadesmar. Maybe the reason it's dangerous to enter is because all the travelers have screwed with it so much in an attempt to make it possible to get back. No, I think you're on the ball here. I've had a similar idea, and it makes a lot of sense. Though I don't think that's why Shadesmar is dangerous. After all, there's surely some way for the Dahkor to access Shadesmar, and I'm sure they'd be able to find a way back Chaos, if you use my theory, I am totally putting a little astrisk next to my Principle of Intent. I am grabbing whatever credit I can. Though I'll probably have to change from "Theory Leader" to something less exclusive. We'll figure something out, haha. I can't remember where I saw it, but I thought Aona was Relief, not Compassion. Technically, Aona's Shard name has not been confirmed. However, we know it is a synonym of Love or Compassion, but is not those, specifically. We don't have it right yet. Relief was a name that people liked on TWG, but I find it far too vague to be useful. Plus, Relief does not fit well with Seons, and Seons are our biggest clue thus far.
Puck he/him Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 That's true... and it may be completely different because Aona and Skai are shattered. I'd like to say that maybe Elantrians are more prone to being loving/compassionate, as evidenced by all the good works the people of a working Elantris did... but they were just as awful as regular society after the Reod... so it sounds like it's more a matter of circumstances than anything else. IF, however, Aona did still have some sort of consciousness/will despite being shattered, doesn't it make sense that Raoden would be "chosen" (specifically and at a certain time) for the Shaod? I mean, he seems like a pretty compassionate guy... he truly cares for others more than for himself. But again, there's nothing that solid here. I feel like there are enough counter-examples (eg - Seane/Shaor) to cast this theory into doubt
Thucydides he/him Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 Technically, Aona's Shard name has not been confirmed. However, we know it is a synonym of Love or Compassion, but is not those, specifically. We don't have it right yet.Relief was a name that people liked on TWG, but I find it far too vague to be useful. Plus, Relief does not fit well with Seons, and Seons are our biggest clue thus far. Personally I think that it is Charity (as in love, not as in money for others). That is just a gut feeling though.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 Personally I think that it is Charity (as in love, not as in money for others). That is just a gut feeling though. I think Brandon shot that idea down already.
Rabican Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 I'm new here and this is my first post. I very much enjoy the puzzle of Sanderson's cosmology. To continue off of subject: I thought of Empathy for Aona's Shard name. Empathy is an understanding or insight from knowing how others feel. From Elantris Prologue: Their bodies healed quickly, and they were blessed with great strength, insight, and speed. Just wanted to focus on the word insight, BS could have used lots of other words such as knowledge, or intellect. But he chose insight. Which better way to have insight but to understand from another's point of view, which is perfect for empathy. And there is no better way to love something then to see it from it's point a view. Just some food for thought.
Thucydides he/him Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 I think Brandon shot that idea down already. When was that? I'm new here and this is my first post. I very much enjoy the puzzle of Sanderson's cosmology.To continue off of subject: I thought of Empathy for Aona's Shard name. Empathy is an understanding or insight from knowing how others feel. From Elantris Prologue: Their bodies healed quickly, and they were blessed with great strength, insight, and speed. Just wanted to focus on the word insight, BS could have used lots of other words such as knowledge, or intellect. But he chose insight. Which better way to have insight but to understand from another's point of view, which is perfect for empathy. And there is no better way to love something then to see it from it's point a view. Just some food for thought. Empathy sounds very much like a Shard name, and I like your reasoning. You should write up a theory so I can espouse it.
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