An Insight on Odium

[Cartith he/him]

I was poking around the forums, and saw a quote in a signature tag. The quote was the one about "The THree once reigned, but now the Broken One reigns."  or some such thing. Everyone knows there i =s something weird about Odium, but I was wondering if the phrase Broken One is more than just an empty title. What if Odium was shattered at some point in the past, and Rayse reforged it by killing everyone the shard had invested. The other shards have spent some of their power by investing their people, but Odium doesn't Invest anyone, so he retains more of his power. So he isn't stronger technically, his power is just all in one place. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

Investiture is a tricky topic. My understanding is that Odium has a certain amount of Investiture in Roshar right now, that leaving the planet is difficult enough, or expensive enough Investiture wise, to keep him in it. The title The Broken One probably does apply to Odium, but more in regard to his primary characteristic of divisiveness. Interestingly enough it could refer to The Almighty if Isomere' s (Shardlet? I apologize, it's late) theory is correct.

[skaa he/him]

Yeah, Odium has already Invested on Roshar (I'll let the quotemasters find the relevant WoB).

 

I think it's possible that the Odium Shard is so attuned to the concept of hatred that it even hates itself, and that Rayse now holds a bunch of Odium Splinters that won't even combine after being held by the same person. That might explain the "Broken One" moniker.

Edited July 20, 2013 by skaa

[Shardlet he/him]

Here it is:

 

Quote

Phoenix Comicon

When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them?

Umm... Odium never really settled on a planet.  He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things.  Leaving would be very difficult for him.  It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process.  So yes it is very tough to leave. 

[Kaurne]

While it's an interesting idea, I actually think the Broken One might not actually refer to either of them individually - it's a moniker that fits both Honor and Odium, and it might be used to describe both or mean both.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Kaurne

[Soother he/him]

Not sure how much this helps. Asked Brandons Sanderson at Connecticon what would happen if Odium shattered Harmony. Was told that we would not get back ruin & preservation, but instead smaller pieces. I read it more as "One who Breaks" and as more of an entropy force.

[skaa he/him]

Here it is:

 

Quote

 

 

Phoenix Comicon

When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them?

Umm... Odium never really settled on a planet.  He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things.  Leaving would be very difficult for him.  It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be adifficult process.  So yes it is very tough to leave. 

 

Ah, so that's why using "investiture" as a search keyword didn't work. Thanks Shardlet! *upvotes*

 

 

Not sure how much this helps. Asked Brandons Sanderson at Connecticon what would happen if Odium shattered Harmony. Was told that we would not get back ruin & preservation, but instead smaller pieces. I read it more as "One who Breaks" and as more of an entropy force.

 

Well, yeah, we know that Odium has already Splintered at least three Shards that we know of (Dominion, Devotion, and Honor), so we know he likes breaking others. That kind of goes with being the personification of hatred. But I don't think English grammar allows "the Broken One" to be interpreted as "the One Who Breaks".[1] That's why I think Odium itself could be in a broken state right now, even with a single holder (i.e. Rayse).

 

 

[1]Not that I have any authority when it comes to the English language... I'm not even a native speaker.

Edited July 20, 2013 by skaa

[Shardlet he/him]

But I don't think English grammar allows "the Broken One" to be interpreted as "the One Who Breaks". That's why I think Odium itself could be broken, somehow.

 

Not that I have any authority when it comes to the English language... I'm not even a native speaker.

 

You're reasoning is correct, Skaa.  There really is no grammatical room, that I can discern, for "the Broken One" to mean "one who breaks".

[DocHoliday he/him]

/>You're reasoning is correct, Skaa. There really is no grammatical room, that I can discern, for "the Broken One" to mean "one who breaks".

This is one of the questions I had at the end of WoK. It was a death rattle that gave us the quote, so time and society haven't muddled it.

Theoretically then we can call this a trustworthy source since we have no idea where these rattles come from.

3 of 16 once ruled, refers to Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. Which gives us the impression that they have seperate forces /kingdoms? that they lead. But now the Broken One reigns, begs the question, how does one whose power basis has been dispelled rule over 2 who are not? By consent. By the Oathpact. We can assume Odium is still restrained by it in some way since he's still on Roshar. The whole book takes place prior to a Desolation, during a 'peace-time', which is what Honor would have bargained for in a pact.

My conclusion is that Honor is the Broken One, in a sly deceitful, blindingly obvious, way.

Edit: grammar

Edited July 22, 2013 by DocHoliday

[Aethling he/him]

I have always read it as more referring to his state of mind.  Most people that I know would say something was broken about someone who hated every living thing in existence.  That much pure concentrated hatred is never good for someone.

[Kaurne]

This is one of the questions I had at the end of WoK. It was a death rattle that gave us the quote, so time and society haven't muddled it.

Theoretically then we can call this a trustworthy source since we have no idea where these rattles come from.

3 of 16 once ruled, refers to Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. Which gives us the impression that they have seperate forces /kingdoms? that they lead. But now the Broken One reigns, begs the question, how does one whose power basis has been dispelled rule over 2 who are not? By consent. By the Oathpact. We can assume Odium is still restrained by it in some way since he's still on Roshar. The whole book takes place prior to a Desolation, during a 'peace-time', which is what Honor would have bargained for in a pact.

My conclusion is that Honor is the Broken One, in a sly deceitful, blindingly obvious, way.

Edit: grammar

 

Remember in Dalinar's flashback where he meets the two Knights Radiant? One of them uses 'Three Gods' as a curse. Presumably, all three were known of (not necessarily worshipped) in the past - or maybe were worshipped by different peoples.

 

Look at the difference between 'rule' and 'reign'. There's a subtle difference - as I've said before, the Queen of England reigns but does not rule, because she has no real constitutional power.

 

In the same way, I think in the past, all Three Gods were worshipped - so all three ruled. Now, however, Honor appears to be worshipped by the major world religion, Vorinism, and its offshoots - yet Honor is splintered and cannot exercise his power (presumably since he doesn't have a mind to do so) - and so 'reigns'.

[Binnut he/him]

Remember in Dalinar's flashback where he meets the two Knights Radiant? One of them uses 'Three Gods' as a curse. Presumably, all three were known of (not necessarily worshipped) in the past - or maybe were worshipped by different peoples.

I think it was Taffa (Heb's aka Dalinar's wife) who used Three Gods as a curse.

[Arondell]

Look at the difference between 'rule' and 'reign'. There's a subtle difference - as I've said before, the Queen of England reigns but does not rule, because she has no real constitutional power.

 

In the same way, I think in the past, all Three Gods were worshipped - so all three ruled. Now, however, Honor appears to be worshipped by the major world religion, Vorinism, and its offshoots - yet Honor is splintered and cannot exercise his power (presumably since he doesn't have a mind to do so) - and so 'reigns'.

 

Kaladn's vision of riding the storms seems to indicate otherwise.

 

"Wait!" Kaladin said. "Why is there so much war? Must we always fight?" He wasn't sure why he asked.  The questions simply came out.

   The storm rumbled, like a thoughtful aged father.  The face vanished, shattering into droplets of water.  More softly, the voice answered, ODIUM REIGNS.

 

In the face of such a straight forward statement by the Stormfather I find it a bit of a stretch to interpret the "Broken One" as being anyone else but Odium.

[Aminar]

While I hope this isn't correct, what if Reigns was misheard and it means Rains? As in,the storms?

[Kurkistan he/him]

Nah, Kaladin can hear spelling.

[CabbageHead he/him]

This is really a stretch, but what if "Broken One" is used in the sense that it has been "broken by its master"? If the Shard Odium really does despise itself, perhaps its Intent is not powerful enough to affect its bearer the way the other Shards do theirs, and the Shardbearer is in control. This could be very dangerous with someone like how Hoid descibes Rayse.

[Windrunner he/him]

We have a bit of knowledge on how Odium and Rayse mesh.

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)
Odium wants to be the only Shard. Odium could pick up other Shards if he wants to, but, he doesn't want to. His Shard is a good match for his personality and he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard.

Source

[Millennium]

Brandon stated what it would take for Odium to leave Roshar, and stated that it would be very difficult: leaving some part of his power behind or ripping it out. But he never actually said that Odium didn't do it, one way or another. Is it possible that his visit to Sel is what left him "broken"?

 

This could also explain why he only went to Sel, and hasn't gone hopping from world to world on a Shard-killing rampage since then. He can travel, but it's very difficult (maybe painful?), and so he needs time to recover between trips. Not as much time as it takes for a Splintered Shard to heal, or else he wouldn't bother, but on the order of centuries.

[Arondell]

We have a bit of knowledge on how Odium and Rayse mesh.

 

Hoid using Ati as an example of how someone who was once kind and generous could be warped by the shard he carried(Ruin) was well taken.  Having Odium being carried by someone with a fundamentally matching personality who is also "crafty and dangerous" should be quite alarming.

 

Hoid's letter also implies other shard holders may not be very well informed about events on worlds other then their own.  A point I found a little surprising.  Though the "17th Shard" group may be an attempt to rectify that.

[Shardlet he/him]

While it is possible that the recipient of the letter is a Shard, the letter is ambiguous enough to be read otherwise.  If it is written to a Shard, then yes, it appears that Shards are potentially detatched from the workings and doings and well-being of other Shards.  However, it has been posited that the two stars that fell and winked out in Dalinar's last storm-vision represented the death and splintering of Devotion (Aona) and Dominion (Skai).  That being the case, Honor, at least, is somewhat aware of these things.  If the false trail that is spoken of in the letter refers to directing the searchers to the purelake, then the letter was written long after the death of Tanavast and the splintering of Honor.  Which means at that point, the other Shards would likely be aware of Devotion's and Dominion's demise. Unless, of course, the intent of the shard has an effect upon the Shard's perception and awareness of the other Shards.

[Arondell]

The possible ignorance of other shards seemed a bit more reasonable to me once Word of Brandon revealed that shards that are settled have a hard time leaving one world for another.  That forces them to establish some sort of communication through indirect means.  Based on Sazed's ascension it is fairly obvious that knowledge of the affairs of shards on other worlds takes some sort of effort.  At the very least it isn't automatic.  Honor knowing of the shattering of Devotion and Dominion wouldn't be really hard to explain.  The simplest reason might have been Odium directly telling him.  I can certainly see gloating as something Odium would indulge in.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

i don't know if this is plausible, but thinking about the title, The Broken One, I just thought of Adonalsium. Could The Broken One be Adonalsium?

[Shardlet he/him]

It doesn't seem particularly plausible since Adonalsium is now 12 shards connected to 12 different conciousnesses and an undefined number of splinters (recall Sazed holds 2 shards and Honor, Dominion, and Devotion are dead and splintered).  I suppose it could state that collectively the Shards reign in the cosmere, but that doesn't seem to be a particularly pertinent bit of info to give to Dalinar in terms of the desolations.

[Lamanti he/him]

I don't think that Odium had anything to do with the creation of mankind on Roshar. It was stated that "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns", meaning that there were not two shards on Roshar, as commonly believed, but actually three. Honor is responsible for creating mankind, Cultivation, I believe to be responsible for a few things, the highstorms being one of them. Think about it. The stormwater is better for agriculture, the storms themselves shape the ecology of the world, and the crem is used in many ways. It might be that Cultivation originally began the storms, but like the "Deepness", Odium came and augmented the power of the storms to be terrifyingly dangerous. Honor must also be involved in the storms too, because of the Stormlight and Soulcasting. The ardent's name for the Almighty means He who Transforms, thus tying the storms to Honor. Again, if the storms were purely of Odium, wouldn't the spren be inextricably tied to him, making Syl a pawn? On a side note, Shardlet's post on August 15 states that the two stars that fell were Aona and Skai. I disagree. The two stars might have been the suns of the worlds Sel (Of Elantris), and of Scadrial. This could also explain how  Preservation and Ruin's rivalry came to a head; Odium might have visited that world and the influx of power could possibly have unbalanced both forces to the point of breaking. 

[Shardlet he/him]

You may be right, but I don't see why it would have been the suns of Scadrial and Sel falling/failing.  Without any indication that those sons did so, there seems to be a lack of a tie.