Oudeis he/him Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Aren't the "states" as you list them qualities of physical matter? I've been under the impression that the Investiture is energy, like light or heat.
Kurkistan he/him Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Aren't the "states" as you list them qualities of physical matter? I've been under the impression that the Investiture is energy, like light or heat. We have this from Brandon: Source: Q: Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium -- it's fueled by _both_ gods' bodies? A: The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms. Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.) So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak--though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that--using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself--to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive. That's the basis of it so far as I can tell. Brandon also neglected to correct a questioner who assumed this structure: Source: Q. I know that there’s three sorts of forms that magic presents itself in, the liquid and the solid and air. What would Breath be? A. Breath is definitely like Mist, it is in the form of the air. Q. And is Stormlight the same? A. Stormlight is the same. Good questions! 1
Meg Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) What state is the Investiture gained from burning metals in? Can it even be classified as gaseous/liquid/solid? What a question . *** insertion *** Thanks Kurk, for providing the WoB's (as for I don't have to do now ). Though I think those WoBs don't help for Moogle's question as for those are about the "essence" of Investiture that is around. Moogle seems to have another thing in mind. Moogle, to which exact phase of the process do you refer? When burned but not yet used? While using? Or thereafter? edit: the italic part in the second paragraph. Edited November 12, 2014 by Meg
Moogle Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Aren't the "states" as you list them qualities of physical matter? I've been under the impression that the Investiture is energy, like light or heat. Well, Kurk's beat me to posting the WoBs, but essentially when you take in Stormlight, Breath, and the Mists you're taking in "gaseous" Investiture. And what's more, Shallan shows you can transfer this back out and back into gems. So it seems like the Investiture sort of retains its physical properties, even when absorbed. And we know you can 'distill' the mists into lerasium by WoB, for example, so it doesn't seem like this is fixed. I've been thinking on this and trying to get a handle on it, which lead me to that question. Moogle, to which exact phase of the process do you refer? When burned but not yet used? While using? Or thereafter? I'm not quite sure on how exactly how burning a metal works from an Investiture perspective. You burn the metal, and this apparently draws Investiture in, which interacts with the metal's atomic structure, and you get a result. But... is there ever just 'raw' Investiture sitting in your stomach waiting to react with the metal? I don't know. I'm thinking of the point where each Allomancer feels a heat in their chests, which matches up with how Stormlight feels when it's taken in. They have "begun an Investiture" at that point, according to the Ars Arcanum. I'd like to know if this Investiture would be considered to have a physical state, like Stormlight would be considered gaseous. Because you don't draw in Preservation's Investiture from a physical source (or do you?), it might not have a physical state at all. As Outis says, it might just be energy. But... I don't know. I'm confused, and attempting to probe the topic to get a better idea on things. Ars Arcanum: Allomancy is the most common of the three. It is end-positive, according to my terminology, meaning that the practitioner draws in power from an external source. The body then filters it into various forms. (The actual outlet of the power is not chosen by the practitioner, but instead is hardwritten into their Spiritweb.) The key to drawing this power comes in the form of various types of metals, with specific compositions being required. Though the metal is consumed in the process, the power itself doesn’t actually come from the metal. The metal is a catalyst, you might say, that begins an Investiture and keeps it running. Edited November 12, 2014 by Moogle
Oudeis he/him Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 But the initial quote discusses the fuel, not the Investiture. For example, you can burn wood (solid) oil (water) or gas (gas), but the result is energy. It's been my understanding that the Power of Creation you channel when you "burn" a metal is in the energy state, and rather than converting it from fuel to energy, it's just like opening a windowshade and letting light from outside come in. I could be wrong. And I'm doing that thing again where I'm turning a question on this thread into a debate. Right after asking someone else not to. Sorry!
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Where any planets, apart from Yolen, inhabited by humans before Adonalsium Shattered? If not, did any of them have Sentient life?
Moogle Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Where any planets, apart from Yolen, inhabited by humans before Adonalsium Shattered? If not, did any of them have Sentient life? The listeners were not originally of Cultivation or originally of Odium and are not of Honor. Adonalsium also left some of his power on Roshar in the form of spren. This isn't quite proof, but it's strong evidence that the listeners existed pre-Shattering. It'd be awful nice to get confirmation, though. Good question idea. Edited November 14, 2014 by Moogle
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Well Roshar seems to be the most special of the planets we've seen so far. I would say that Roshar is the exception. Not the rule. So that there was life there put by Adonalsium means very little in terms of what we learn about the universe at large. Edit: Was about to hopefully hugely sidetrack this thread. Decided to jump the gun and made a thread in cosmere theories. Edited November 14, 2014 by SmurfAquamarineBodies
gjustice99 she/her Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) If Susebron (and presumably previous God Kings) have had their tongues cut out, and to transfer your Breath to another person, then how does the Breath get passed through the succession of God Kings? How did history on Nalthis become so warped that Kalad and Peacegiver, who we know to be the same person, were separated by history to be two separate people? Did historians do this just to make Peacegiver seem like a hero even though he was actually the cause of the problem he solved? Edit: Are the Returned slivers of Endowment? Edited November 14, 2014 by WeiryWriter please don't double post, use the edit feature
WeiryWriter he/him Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 If Susebron (and presumably previous God Kings) have had their tongues cut out, and to transfer your Breath to another person, then how does the Breath get passed through the succession of God Kings? Mental Commands! One of the benefits of the Tenth Heightening is the ability to Awaken without vocalization, though it takes some training. (see chapter 58) Are the Returned slivers of Endowment? No but their divine Breaths are splinters of Endowment.
Moogle Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Are the Returned slivers of Endowment? They have not held the Shard Endowment, nor have they held a significant fraction of the Shard's power, so no. Each Divine Breath is a Splinter of Endowment, though.
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted November 16, 2014 Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Can a Shard Invest in a star? Could they create sentient life there? Edit: Does Vashers current location have anything to do with his Returned natures purpose? Edited November 16, 2014 by SmurfAquamarineBodies
Zas678 he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Here's some (yeah for coming back and getting into theories!): Did Khriss write the Ars Arcanum? (RAFO bait, I'm sure) In order to worldhop, do you need to use the Shardlakes? OR Are Shardlakes "Stations" that make it easier to worldhop? Is it a coincidence that both Kaladin and Dalinar both caught shardblades? Or does it have to do with the Surge that their orders share (I'm assuming ) Is Roshar shaped in the shape of the Cosmere? COMPLETE Rafo-bait- Is there a Shardholder that's a Dragon? Something I don't understand- you recently said that the books would go Dragonsteel, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn. But how can that be if the difference between the 1st and second mistborn trilogy is at least 400 years, and yet there's still Renarin, Lift, etc as central characters in the 2nd stormlight series. How's that going to work out? Will there be some time of time pause for 400 years? Is the drunk guy in the Beggar's hall Hoid? ( I don't remember if I've asked this before or not, but just in case....)
Robot Aztec Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 stomrlight is before alloy so maybre the mistborn in between is alloy??
Kurkistan he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Is Roshar shaped in the shape of the Cosmere? Well we know it's shaped like 2d cut of a Julia set, and I doubt the Cosmere looks like that. COMPLETE Rafo-bait- Is there a Shardholder that's a Dragon? Memory fails me at the moment, but I feel like we might actually have an oblique WoB hinting at this... Something I don't understand- you recently said that the books would go Dragonsteel, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn. But how can that be if the difference between the 1st and second mistborn trilogy is at least 400 years, and yet there's still Renarin, Lift, etc as central characters in the 2nd stormlight series. How's that going to work out? Will there be some time of time pause for 400 years? I believe you may be operating under the misconception that the cosmere books are locked into being published in in-universe chronological order, which I don't believe has been true for quite some time. So Brandon's talking about writing/publishing order there, not necessarily in-universe order of events. EDIT: Oops, may have misread you a bit (I didn't see Dragonsteel there at the beginning ). If Brandon did say that that's how it was going to work chronologically, then a simple answer is that the big time gap is between Mistborn 1 and Stormlight 1/2, with then only a few years between the two Stormlight halves—Mistborn 2 taking place over that short time span. Edited November 17, 2014 by Kurkistan
WeiryWriter he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Yeah the chronology thing is mentioned here: [3:02:41] Q: Concerning everything on Roshar, is it safe to say The Stormlight Archive will become the backbone series of the story of the cosmere? B: There are three backbone series: Dragonsteel, Mistborn, and The Stormlight Archive. And Mistborn is past, present, future, Stormlight is the center, and Dragonsteel is the beginning. So really it goes: Dragonsteel, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn, Stormlight, Mistborn. Is basically how this backbone sequence goes. The confusing thing is that Brandon has said that Alloy and WoK are roughly contemporaneous (Alloy taking place slightly after WoK). I believe he has also said the time skip between the front and back halves of Stormlight is supposed be like 10 years. Alloy is roughly 1910's tech, the modern trilogy is supposed to be at 1980's. Scadrial is not going to develop that fast in the 10 year gap between Stormlights. @Robot Aztec - Alloy is not the modern trilogy, it's a side story.
Kurkistan he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Found the oblique WoB (couldn't find it earlier because half the signing it's from isn't in Theoryland yet) Source: 3:23:34 (NutiketAiel) Q. Were the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human? A. Uh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. Three sentient races. ... 3:27:53 (NutiketAiel) Q. Were all the original sixteen shardholders from Yolen? A. Yes. @Weiry Ah, thanks. Edited November 17, 2014 by Kurkistan 1
Robot Aztec Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 @Robot Aztec - Alloy is not the modern trilogy, it's a side story. but brandon didnt say modern jsut mistborn right? if wok is just TINY bit befor alloy then ally fits in 10 yr gap no problems at all and it all makse sense
WeiryWriter he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 but brandon didnt say modern jsut mistborn right? if wok is just TINY bit befor alloy then ally fits in 10 yr gap no problems at all and it all makse sense He's talking about the main Mistborn sequence, the trilogy of trilogies, Alloy is not a part of that.
Oudeis he/him Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 While I don't believe he ever flat-out says he only means the main stories, I think it's a more-than-reasonable assumption. We do know, for sure, that Alloy was not part of the initial "main" Mistborn storyline.
Asperity he/him Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Scadrial is not going to develop that fast in the 10 year gap between Stormlights. You're forgetting about the Southern Scadralans. For all we know, the entire second trilogy might take place there and who knows what kind of kooky things they've been up to. 2
WeiryWriter he/him Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 You're forgetting about the Southern Scadralans. For all we know, the entire second trilogy might take place there and who knows what kind of kooky things they've been up to. Actually what we know indicates that is not the case. Supposedly it is supposed to feature a misting SWAT team and a Mistborn serial killer and that the main character is a nicrosil misting (although that is probably all subject to change). We know that mistings are exceedingly rare in the South, and Mistborn unheard of. I also want to say that Brandon has said the North and South "together" in the modern trilogy, though I'm not 100% about that. I know he's been asked whether there will be a Southern Continent series, and I believe he said he might do one but it wouldn't be part of the main sequence.
Asperity he/him Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 Fair enough. All I know/remember about the mid trilogy in terms of setting was the SWAT team/Mistborn killer/Nicrosil main char as well. I had meant it more along the lines that Southern Scadrial could be more advanced due to using different technology than the Northerners. Although if they're '80s-tier, they should theoretically have flight and would know of the Northerners and all of that. Tl;dr I don't even know anymore.
LiquidBlue Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Is there such a thing a Kandra-blooded? If so, does Wayne have a Kandra ancestor?
dvoraen Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Just a few queries on my mind... Stormlight - How demanding (if not abusive) a father was Gavilar to his children? - Counting the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather as two "similar" spren, are there exactly fourteen others like them on Roshar (dead or alive)? Or is that number only one? - Does the number of Heralds plus (named) Unmade add up to sixteen? - How hard is Odium trying to influence the emerging Surgebinders for the purpose of tearing them away from their spren/oaths? (Kaladin seems to be attracting his attention, as is Szeth.) - Before Szeth's interactions with the man claiming to be Nalan'Elin, did he have a previous interaction with a Herald? If so, was it in Shinovar? - Let's assume for this question that the man claiming to be Taln really is him. How long has he been on Roshar since his release from 'that place of pain and fire'? - Let's assume I was a skilled bronze-burner/Seeker misting on Roshar (in other words, I can detect variance in Investiture usage). Let's also assume, for simplicity, that I can categorize uses of Investiture to a given Shard. If I were to burn bronze around a Herald using his/her full powers, would I detect both Honor and Cultivation? - Does a spren touched by Sja'anat retain its Cognitive form, or is its previous existence fundamentally altered? For example, does a flamespren stay a flamespren under Sja'anat's control, or is it no longer a flamespren? - Are the named Unmade dormant outside of Desolations? If not, how frequent are their periods of activity? - Do the named Unmade share a common trait with Vasher in terms of Investiture? - Could you discuss folklore with respect to the Unmade, specifically Shallan's flashback where she mentions them? The merchant mentions that Shinovar would be "cursed" if the Unmade had been drawn there, but where does this comment source from? Vorin theology, or "common knowledge"? - Is Rall Elorim cursed? - Do spren manifest from Spiritual Ideals? - Were all of the Bondsmiths alive during the events leading up to, and including, the Recreance? Cosmere - Let's suppose a Shardholder were to travel to Scadrial and do his/her thing there, and that Harmony did not intervene. Would another metal-fueled form of Investiture manifest? - Same question, except the Shardholder goes to Roshar. Would more 'families' of spren begin to manifest? Edited November 21, 2014 by dvoraen
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