Issue with lines of Forbiddance

[Voidus]

I just noticed a problem, in a few of the illustrated defences the smaller circles have two intersecting lines of forbiddance to stablise the wardings, but given that they project their forcefields above them, it'd be impossible for them to intersect.

[Morsk he/him]

I saw this too. Maybe they draw it with two hands, and the line doesn't activate until they take the chalk off the ground? Also I think there was even a special name for it once, "Mark's Cross". Although I could easily be misremembering the phrase or what it refers to, because I only read it once.

But then why not do the same thing, to reinforce corners in the times Rithmatists boxed themselves in inside squares? I can be really sloppy and still make something that looks effective...

Edited May 16, 2013 by Morsk

[Voidus]

Yeah the Mark's cross thing sounds familiar, it's also featured in the illustration of the Matson defence.

[Kurkistan he/him]

The only time I recall intersecting lines was with Mark's cross (just a +, if I recall). I think that could either be a case of not lifting the chalk until you're done (since Lines of Warding Forbiddance seem to wait until you're done drawing to start repelling things, given that your hand isn't pushed away as you draw it) or drawing one line, then reaching around it to draw two others on each side of it.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Voidus]

Lines of Warding don't project fields upwards though, do they?
The two lines thing was the only answer I could think of, but then it kindof defeats the purpose of stabilising the warding since it only goes through a single point, good for an anchor but it wouldn't strengthen the defence.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Sorry, I meant line of Forbiddance there; as in when you're drawing out the straight line, your hand/arm/chalk isn't repelled until you've finished.

 

Well, the extra lines still anchor the secondary circle, as well as staying in place and providing protection when the secondary circle fails.

[Voidus]

Lines of forbiddance don't really have that much of a repulsive range though, not if you can put your fingers through the gaps perfectly fine.
I just think it would be better to use the same lines as used for the main line of warding four-point.
 

[Kurkistan he/him]

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards "don't pick up the chalk", actually. "Boxes" made of Lines of Forbiddance are presumably done all in one motion, so you can have "different" lines drawn at the same time.

[Isomere]

The intent of the Rithmatist seems to matter; maby if the drawer intends to make a Mark's Cross it doesn't start working until after the second line is drawn. 

[Voidus]

If the boxes were all done in one motion though, there shouldn't be weak spots there.

[Kurkistan he/him]

^The weak spots are the corners. That's just how it is. I'm not sure how doing it in a single motion would change that.

 

I was actually thinking more along the lines of what Isomere is saying (albeit more articulately than I).

[Voidus]

I don't see how your intent could cause a delayed reaction, otherwise that removes a massive obstacle to just surrounding yourself with lines of forbiddance. Maybe if you could draw them both without taking your chalk off, but I don't think that's even possible without compromising your Warding then. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

It's not that hard. A chalkling isn't done until it's done, when you write a symbol or a letter in life you don't really think of it as done until you finish it, so the process of making a Mark's cross could just be "drawing a cross", which process happens to involve lifting the chalk for a moment.

[Voidus]

Yes but then you've conceptualised an entirely different symbol, it's no longer two intersecting lines of forbiddance which means they couldn't have that effect.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I can easily see someone thinking "yeah, I'm going to make these two intersecting Lines of Forbiddance in the form of Mark's cross now" and still thinking of them as Lines of Forbiddance.

[Voidus]

I can see that, but given what we've seen so far you'd still not be able to cross one of the lines, since you deliberately drew it as a line of Forbiddance, even if it's part of a larger whole, you can't cross the lines to finish a defense on the other side, even if you view the defense as a larger whole including those lines.

[vegasdev]

My guess: A piece of chalk in each hand, lifting when the cross is completed.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

I don't actually know, but I assumed what vegasdev says.

[Arcanist Lupus he/him]

Certainly Fitch is dual-wielding chalk in the duel with the Forgotten.  (Which, by the way, is both hilarious and incredibly cool at the same time.)

 

I actually envision the cross being drawn with one hand, but in three pieces.  Draw half the vertical line, then draw the horizontal line, then finish the vertical line.  You'd have to be incredibly precise, but it would probably work.

[Binnut he/him]

If the boxes were all done in one motion though, there shouldn't be weak spots there.

 

I do not think so. If a circle is off in its proportions, there will be weak sections were its not strictly circular. So I assume that even if the box is done with one motion the weakness can still be there because of its geometric form.

 

But the boxes are actually made of lines of forbiddance and not lines of vigor which makes it impossible to do anything other than a straight line and have it working as intended.

[Ender he/him]

/>/>I do not think so. If a circle is off in its proportions, there will be weak sections were its not strictly circular. So I assume that even if the box is done with one motion the weakness can still be there because of its geometric form.

But the boxes are actually made of lines of forbiddance and not lines of vigor which makes it impossible to do anything other than a straight line and have it working as intended.

Actually the sharper a line of warding curves the stronger it will be. The weak points occur when you draw a a section too straight. But by the basic rules of geometry if one section is curved more sharply, there will be a straighter section at one point in the circle. Edited July 10, 2013 by Ender

[Shardlet he/him]

Do we know that the Mark's Cross is composed of two lines of forbiddance?  I am currently rereading and I don't recall these (so far) being identified as lines of forbiddance.

[Carcinios he/him]

If you drew a horizontal line of forbidding on a wall would you be able to stand on the repulsing wall generated by it?

[Crysanja]

maybe you need to think its done - to activate the lines.

 

i think here on a calkling example.

 

as i understand you draw the calkling, and then add instructions. <- im not sure this is the correct order of things.

maybe you need to start the calkling, add instructions and then finish the calkling or even start with the instructions.

[Observer]

You could always just draw a bunch of connecting L shapes.