Genders

[Voidus]

I identify as an agendered guardian of virtue and justice, fighting the forces of curruption wherever I find them.

I may also have multiple personalities.

[Voidus]

I'm female, and I embrace many traditionally feminine things. I like wearing skirts and curling my hair, I enjoy trying new recipes and drinking tea while cooing over pictures of small dogs. I once had a gender studies prof tell me I only enjoyed those things because I had been brainwashed by our culture. But I know that's not true. I don't enjoy those things out of an obligation to be feminine. I don't teach myself new recipes for the benefit of some mythical future husband. I enjoy these things because I find them fulfilling.

At the same time, I know there are women who don't find fulfillment in those things. They might despise cooking or hate the way skirts look on them. They might find curling irons to be a waste of time or feel more comfortable and happy in a pixie cut. And all of that, in my opinion, is awesome. They like what they like and I like what I like, and as long as we're both comfortable and happy with who we are, that's fine.

And I think the same goes for men.

There are some who say that men should act like men and women should act like women. Men drive trucks and drink beer while watching sports; women wear skirts and cook. And some people are happy that way. But some men like things our culture has arbitrarily decided are "girly." Shows about ponies, the color pink, wearing long hair--our culture has set those things aside for women, while any woman who likes playing football and drinking beer is "mannish."

And I think it's dumb.

Like what you like. Do what you do. Don't let our culture decide whether you're "mannish" or "girly." It was a guy who introduced me to MLP, after all, and I'm glad he was manly enough to tell me about that awesome show.

This statement may cause some lashback but I'd just like to go on record and say that people like that teacher are the kinds of people who give feminism a bad name. Feminism isn't about proving that you're better than the patriarchy or whatever it's about saying that hey, we're all humans, whether you've got two x's or an x and a y we all breathe the same air and eat the same food (Alethi aside) so one half of the population shouldn't be told that all they're good for is child-rearing, that said if that half wants to raise a child then all power to them, but equally if the other half wants to then they should be able to as well.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

This reminds me of a Thomas Hardy quote:

 

It is difficult for a woman to define her feelings in language which is chiefly made by men to express theirs.

 

 

I feel a lot of confusion is in the language: there really is no "accepted" terminology to talk about gender identity. As a result, when one says something like, "I was assigned *blank* gender at birth" you will get kick-back in the vain of "This isn't Gattaca, no one chooses any gender at birth". Over time, this issue should rectify itself as expressions better suited to explaining these issues win out and the more confusing expressions are relegated to the dust-bin of linguistic insufficiency. 

[Kaymyth she/her]

Male- mostly anyway. Apparently, I give off a "feminine" vibe to people online, though? I have had a surprising amount of pople either assume I'm female or -supposing they know I'm male- thinking I'm either gay or bi.

 

(No one on this forum, before anyone says anything! It's just a... surprising trend I've noticed in my online life.)

 

I know that I first assumed you were female, but that had everything to do with the fact that your avatar was Nightmare Moon at the time.  I believe I corrected myself before the false assumption ever surfaced in conversation.

 

Its trans, because it means I'm not cis/my birth gender, however I don't feel a connection with either male or female. There's a lot of other genders beyond male or female, agenders like myself have decided that we don't have a gender. Some people are bigender; they feel like both. Then there's third gender, probably some more.

 

It's common enough that there's even an official set of gender-neutral pronouns now.  You have her/hers, him/his, and now zie/zir.  They're actually a little awkward (physically) in spoken language, but work well in written.  Though the one truly gender-neutral person I know in real life has a tendency to think of zirself as 'it'.  I can't quite bring myself to call zir 'it', though, because it just seems rude.

 

This statement may cause some lashback but I'd just like to go on record and say that people like that teacher are the kinds of people who give feminism a bad name. Feminism isn't about proving that you're better than the patriarchy or whatever it's about saying that hey, we're all humans, whether you've got two x's or an x and a y we all breathe the same air and eat the same food (Alethi aside) so one half of the population shouldn't be told that all they're good for is child-rearing, that said if that half wants to raise a child then all power to them, but equally if the other half wants to then they should be able to as well.

 

Upvotes for you.  This.  Feminism is supposed to be about equality and choosing the path that works best for you. 

[Kestrel she/her]

Honestly, the whole gender stereotype thing needs to be burned in a fire. Because people can do what they like, and people can like a huge variety of things! It has nothing to do with gender.

That, and its pushed from childhood. "Put that superhero toy down, that's for boys not girls." "Take that dress off, you look like a girl!"

Also, which brings up another point. The fact that men are still considered superior to women as well. When being feminine is looked down upon. Like, a woman can wear a suit and be seen as pretty and empowering, but when a man wears a dress its seen as being a disgrace and weak.

[Delightful]

This statement may cause some lashback but I'd just like to go on record and say that people like that teacher are the kinds of people who give feminism a bad name. Feminism isn't about proving that you're better than the patriarchy or whatever it's about saying that hey, we're all humans, whether you've got two x's or an x and a y we all breathe the same air and eat the same food (Alethi aside) so one half of the population shouldn't be told that all they're good for is child-rearing, that said if that half wants to raise a child then all power to them, but equally if the other half wants to then they should be able to as well.

As I see it, feminism is, at its core, "women are human beings. Treat us as such."

I do think men and women are different. But I also think that societal definitions of girly/manly are silly. Do what you want. Be who you are. Feel free to watch MLP followed by Jaws followed by Avengers and Gossip Girl. People are too complex to fit into little boxes.

*ahem* that has been my rant of the hour.

Edit because ninja'd.

Lark - I agree with you except that for some inexplicable reason, the thought of guys wearing dresses creeps me out.

Kaymyth- I thing because 'it' comes across as dehumanising more than anything. I would really not like to call someone 'it', however they define their gender.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Delightful

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Also, which brings up another point. The fact that men are still considered superior to women as well. When being feminine is looked down upon. Like, a woman can wear a suit and be seen as pretty and empowering, but when a man wears a dress its seen as being a disgrace and weak.

 

Tell that to David Bowie!

 

 

Of course, that is a mere one exception to the rule. It's pretty sad when you can tell the villain of a film based on how effeminate he is.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Orlion

[Kestrel she/her]

This statement may cause some lashback but I'd just like to go on record and say that people like that teacher are the kinds of people who give feminism a bad name. Feminism isn't about proving that you're better than the patriarchy or whatever it's about saying that hey, we're all humans, whether you've got two x's or an x and a y we all breathe the same air and eat the same food (Alethi aside) so one half of the population shouldn't be told that all they're good for is child-rearing, that said if that half wants to raise a child then all power to them, but equally if the other half wants to then they should be able to as well.

 Feminism is about equality for all. To end the gender stereotypes of both men and women. Anyone who says otherwise is ding ding not a feminist. If you claim your feminism is about making women superior, you're not a feminist. You're a misandrist (or was it the other word? I might have misandry and misogyny confused). 

It's common enough that there's even an official set of gender-neutral pronouns now.  You have her/hers, him/his, and now zie/zir.  They're actually a little awkward (physically) in spoken language, but work well in written.  Though the one truly gender-neutral person I know in real life has a tendency to think of zirself as 'it'.  I can't quite bring myself to call zir 'it', though, because it just seems rude.

anyone who calls a nonbianary person "it" is going to be given a box. Full of bees. The bees are angry. I'm opening the box. They're coming.

[Kaymyth she/her]

Honestly, the whole gender stereotype thing needs to be burned in a fire. Because people can do what they like, and people can like a huge variety of things! It has nothing to do with gender.

That, and its pushed from childhood. "Put that superhero toy down, that's for boys not girls." "Take that dress off, you look like a girl!"

Also, which brings up another point. The fact that men are still considered superior to women as well. When being feminine is looked down upon. Like, a woman can wear a suit and be seen as pretty and empowering, but when a man wears a dress its seen as being a disgrace and weak.

 

The best birthday I ever had was when my husband bought a kilt on the sly and surprised me by wearing it for me.     Dagnabbit, men in kilts are sexy. 

 

 

 Feminism is about equality for all. To end the gender stereotypes of both men and women. Anyone who says otherwise is ding ding not a feminist. If you claim your feminism is about making women superior, you're not a feminist. You're a misandrist (or was it the other word? I might have misandry and misogyny confused). anyone who calls a nonbianary person "it" is going to be given a box. Full of bees. The bees are angry. I'm opening the box. They're coming.

 

Well, given that this friend just thinks of zirself that way, I think that zie doesn't deserve bees.  Zie'll use whatever pronouns for someone else that they declare for themselves.

 

Zie also tends to think that zie's always wearing drag, whether wearing girly clothes or boyly clothes.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kaymyth

[Kestrel she/her]

As I see it, feminism is, at its core, "women are human beings. Treat us as such."

I do think men and women are different. But I also think that societal definitions of girly/manly are silly. Do what you want. Be who you are. Feel free to watch MLP followed by Jaws followed by Avengers and Gossip Girl. People are too complex to fit into little boxes.

Feminism is accepting that they're different. I once saw a post on tumblr with someone complaining about a basketball package that said "adult men 12+ only" on it. Now, it might seem unfair, but women have generally smaller hands! Of course we'd need different stuff than men! Feminism is accepting that and providing the other stuff as well.

Edit because ninja'd.

Lark - I agree with you except that for some inexplicable reason, the thought of guys wearing dresses creeps me out.

Kaymyth- I thing because 'it' comes across as dehumanising more than anything. I would really not like to call someone 'it', however they define their gender.

I mean, you might not like it but it isn't your call.

[Voidus]

Well apparently not as much lashback as I'd thought
I suppose I'm used to anytime a man says something about those particular types of quote-unquote 'feminists' being promptly treated to a seven hour lecture about how I gave up my right to talk about women's rights the day I decided to accept that 'y' chromosome.

[Delightful]

Feminism is accepting that they're different.

I mean, you might not like it but it isn't your call.

Fair.

On a related note (Heres my sob story of the hour)

I was at an all-male birthday party as a kid (I dont remember exactly why I was there). They were all playing some Spider-Man video game, and they reluctantly let me play when I asked to.....and then proceeded to give me wrong instructions on how to play so that I would get out quickly and they could have the game back. Because I was a girl and younger than them.

This tragic backstory has lead me to become a villain. MUAHAHAHA.

Seriously though. It sucked .

Edited July 7, 2015 by Delightful

[Joe ST he/him]

My opinion of feminism is an attempt to create a world where you personally are allowed to be/feel/present how you feel and nobody will attack you for doing it.

[+Slowswift]

Am I the only one who's gonna mention the Captain from Stardust? It's been a while, so I can't remember much, but he was rather outside the stereotypes.

 

Also, I saw an essay somewhere that basically said "feminism does not mean the girl always has to open the jar. It's common sense to let whoever's able, boy or girl, open said jar."

Edited July 7, 2015 by Slowswift

[Kaymyth she/her]

Kaymyth- I thing because 'it' comes across as dehumanising more than anything. I would really not like to call someone 'it', however they define their gender.

 

I mean, you might not like it but it isn't your call.

 

Yeh.  My friend doesn't demand that anyone call zir 'it', but has just admitted that's how zie thinks of zirself.

 

Of course, this is also the same friend who decided that since zie has to pick a gender and thus mark a box in forms, it means that clearly zir gender is 'Fabulous Monster'.

[Delightful]

Yeh. My friend doesn't demand that anyone call zir 'it', but has just admitted that's how zie thinks of zirself.

Of course, this is also the same friend who decided that since zie has to pick a gender and thus mark a box in forms, it means that clearly zir gender is 'Fabulous Monster'.

Does zie draw in that box on official forms?

[Kaymyth she/her]

Does zie draw in that box on official forms?

 

Nah, zie ticks the 'F' box, because that matches what people see when they see zir.  But in zir mind, it stands for Fabulous Monster.

[Kestrel she/her]

Oh, that was in reply to the "I find it creepy when men wear dresses," not the pronoun thing.

My original feeling still stands on that. If you call a trans/nb person an "it" I'm coming for you.

[Kestrel she/her]

Nah, zie ticks the 'F' box, because that matches what people see when they see zir.  But in zir mind, it stands for Fabulous Monster.

IM GOING TO DO THAT NOW THANK YOU.

[Delightful]

Oh, that was in reply to the "I find it creepy when men wear dresses," not the pronoun thing.

My original feeling still stands on that. If you call a trans/nb person an "it" I'm coming for you.

Right . Yeah I fully recognise that I have no say in the matter whatsoever. I just don't like it.

I'll join your anti-it SWAT team

[Kestrel she/her]

Nice. Now, where do we go find the bees..

[Delightful]

How about smelling salts and wrenches?

[Kestrel she/her]

Sounds good. I'll also go buy 50 lions.

[Delightful]

What....what are we going to DO with that many?

Or feed them?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Delightful

[Cracknut he/him]

Feminism isn't about gender equality, its about female rights.
 

Gender is a set of tools you get when born. Not being able to get used to them is a weakness, not a strength.

Stereotypes are for weak-minded slaves of society.

 

I'm for equality in strength, not weakness.

Bring it on!