6000j Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 i still stand by my suggestion of shardlaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormyAngel Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Shard Arrows could be super useful for assassinating people though. They think they're safe behind that thick stone wall, and besides, you couldn't possibly get close enough to cut a hole in the wall without being seen. But with a good bow and a Shard arrow...you've got no problems. Plus, it comes back to you so limitless ammo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 As noted above, a Shardarrow doesn't have the profile to do very much damage. At very much range, arrows have limited accuracy (even when your opponent isn't on the far side of a wall) and there are a lot of places the arrow could pass through someone that wouldn't even do very much damage; any normal arrow wound would at least make a bleeding wound, but shardarrows won't. Also, recall that there's not zero-drag through solid things. I wonder how thick a wall a Shardarrow could make it through. Basically there's no part of this scenario that a sharderang wouldn't improve. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renarin_Kholin Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I'm thinking that a Shardarrow and Sharderang would be useful in different situations. I would assume that a Sharderang would be more useful in a battle where accuracy is less important than mass damage, with the Sharderang you could potential cut off multiple limbs and kill others in the process. On the opposite end is the Shardarrow that excels at single target killing (I'm assuming here that having a sentient arrow makes aiming a whole lot easier). Just for refrence the furthest an arrow has been shot is just under 500 meters with a recurve bow and the furthest a boomerang has been tossed is just over 425 meters. A difference of around 200 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Reads Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Sadeas had a longbow that were nicknamed "shardbows." Definitely not actual Shard-anything, but only a Shardbearer could wield it. What if stormlight makes you strong enough to draw one of these bows? They might not be shards in the conventional sense but they would need a Knight or Squire to use them so I would say that makes them "modern" shards. I would really like to see the bridge four squires as an elite magically-enhanced-superweapon-equipped squad of archers. It always frustrates me how in fantasy the "super-soldiers" are always in the middle of the fighting despite archers or other long range attackers being so much better suited to the role. I don't care how fast or strong kal is, if a group of ten people put their heads down and charge him (Jakamav style) he dosen't stand a chance on the battlefield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) ...and the bridgeman archer downed enemy officers in the battlefield like Renarin Kholin killed conversations in his family palace. Edited July 10, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (I'm assuming here that having a sentient arrow makes aiming a whole lot easier). ...Why? Spren still need to be wielded. We've never seen a Sprenblade fling itself across the room to attack someone. Syl might be able to realize she's going off course, but what would she do about it? Also, how fast do arrows go exactly? To kill someone with a Shardarrow, you'll have to hit an absolute bull'seye... as has been stated, the majority of your body can take a shardwound the diameter of an arrow and suffer less than a would from an actual arrow. So from whatever distance, you'd better hope he's either standing perfectly still or moving at one set velocity that you can predict with perfect accuracy, or you'll miss by two-inches and not-kill him. If he's running at you and sees you fire, surely he could jump one step to the side and prolly miss the entire arrow in the time it takes the arrow to get to you (at least if you're far out at the distance between how far an arrow can fly or a boomerang can be thrown). I'm also gonna point out that your 500m figure from above was for Flight Archery, for which there is no target. I'm trying (and failing) to find what the longest bullseye someone has ever shot is, but as a baseline, the longest standard distance in target archery is only 90m. I don't care how fast or strong kal is, if a group of ten people put their heads down and charge him (Jakamav style) he dosen't stand a chance on the battlefield. ...Unless he Lashes himself forwards and up, goes over their heads, and slashes at their unprotected backs with a Shardspear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VindicationKnight Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 It always frustrates me how in fantasy the "super-soldiers" are always in the middle of the fighting despite archers or other long range attackers being so much better suited to the role. I don't care how fast or strong kal is, if a group of ten people put their heads down and charge him (Jakamav style) he dosen't stand a chance on the battlefield. ...Unless he Lashes himself forwards and up, goes over their heads, and slashes at their unprotected backs with a Shardspear. Or just slashes out with his Shardblade to begin with. Or sprays the ground with a Full Lashing. Or Lashes up and down into their midst and does that shockwave trick he's used before. Or moves between them into their midst dodging or healing the initial injuries whilst he Lashes them in every direction besides down. Or...I could go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Or is the protagonist in an Epic fantasy... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renarin_Kholin Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Spren still need to be wielded. We've never seen a Sprenblade fling itself across the room to attack someone. Syl might be able to realize she's going off course, but what would she do about it? But we have seen them change shape. Syl might not be able to manage it, but a spren like Pattern, who is much better at complex math, might be able to adjust the fletchings slightly to readjust... the longest accurate shot I can find is held by Matt Stutzman who hit his target from 230 yards, just shy of two american football fields. However this is shot with an arrow that cant readjust it's course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Reads Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 ...Unless he Lashes himself forwards and up, goes over their heads, and slashes at their unprotected backs with a Shardspear. Or just slashes out with his Shardblade to begin with. Or sprays the ground with a Full Lashing. Or Lashes up and down into their midst and does that shockwave trick he's used before. Or moves between them into their midst dodging or healing the initial injuries whilst he Lashes them in every direction besides down. Or...I could go on. I wasn't talking about Lashings just the speed/strength granted by holding stormlight, you know the abilities he has actually used on the battlefield? At the tower he literally jumps completly unsupported into an enemy army and all he has is: His experience/skill as a spearman, the passive augmentation of stormlight, a normal spear and the "stormlight-boom" at the start of the fight. No Blade and no Lashing, only the listener's sense of battlefield honour keeps him alive (they fight him warpair by warpair if I remember correctly) in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 the longest accurate shot I can find is held by Matt Stutzman who hit his target from 230 yards, just shy of two american football fields. However this is shot with an arrow that cant readjust it's course. ...Using a bow with a sight. Also, he hit the fifth ring, not a bullseye. I can't find anything on the attempt saying how many inches off center he was, however the standard target for a 90m outdoor shot is 12.2cm/ring. If they used this, he missed his bullseye by more than 20 inches. As has been pointed out, a Shardarrow would have to be very, very accurate to have a better than average chance of doing more damage than a normal arrow. While I'm not totally willing to concede that a Shardarrow could change its own course, if it can, so can a Sharderang. I wasn't talking about Lashings just the speed/strength granted by holding stormlight, you know the abilities he has actually used on the battlefield? At the tower he literally jumps completly unsupported into an enemy army and all he has is: His experience/skill as a spearman, the passive augmentation of stormlight, a normal spear and the "stormlight-boom" at the start of the fight. No Blade and no Lashing, only the listener's sense of battlefield honour keeps him alive (they fight him warpair by warpair if I remember correctly) in my opinion. ...Have you read Words of Radiance? You don't see the Lashings as something Kaladin uses on the battlefied? Sure, there's one specific example of a time he fought without Lashings or his Shardblade, but that was for one book out of a total of ten. Moving forward from this point, he'll have access to all the rest of those things. Also, keep in mind that Radiants arose to fight things like thunderclasts. I do not believe arrows will ever be as effective as many of the Surges against such beings. Now, maybe others of the Ten Deaths were best fought with ranged weaponry, in which case maybe we'll see that. After all, Mr. Sanderson already has invented the Shardbow. (Which annoyed, and did little more to, the Chasmfiend.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Sharderang. You know I'm all for this, just think of the possibilities! (+ it is a lot easier than throwing an Honourblade/Live Spren Shardblade) An interesting note on Shardarrows: Yondu from Guardians of the Galaxy anyone? Edited July 10, 2015 by ParadoxSpren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Reads Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 What if stormlight makes you strong enough to draw one of these bows? They might not be shards in the conventional sense but they would need a Knight or Squire to use them so I would say that makes them "modern" shards. I would really like to see the bridge four squires as an elite magically-enhanced-superweapon-equipped squad of archers. It always frustrates me how in fantasy the "super-soldiers" are always in the middle of the fighting despite archers or other long range attackers being so much better suited to the role. I don't care how fast or strong kal is, if a group of ten people put their heads down and charge him (Jakamav style) he dosen't stand a chance on the battlefield. This was my original comment, you will notice a few things about it: 1) I think a group of super archers would be a welcome change from the ever present fantasy super swordsmen. This is of course personal preference. 2) It refers to the Bridge Four squires, who can not Surgebind fully as far as we know. 3) Kaladin's enhanced physical prowess are not in my opinion enough to make him a walking blender against a group of determined opponents, provided they are not bothered with fighting fair. Have you read Words of Radiance? You don't see the Lashings as something Kaladin uses on the battlefied? Sure, there's one specific example of a time he fought without Lashings or his Shardblade, but that was for one book out of a total of ten. Moving forward from this point, he'll have access to all the rest of those things. Also, keep in mind that Radiants arose to fight things like thunderclasts. I do not believe arrows will ever be as effective as many of the Surges against such beings. Now, maybe others of the Ten Deaths were best fought with ranged weaponry, in which case maybe we'll see that. After all, Mr. Sanderson already has invented the Shardbow. (Which annoyed, and did little more to, the Chasmfiend.) Moving onto the points you raised: 1)Yes I have read WoR, the author is a personal favourite of mine (I'm even a member of his official fansite ) 2)I don't see lashings as something kal would use on the battlefield for two reasons. He is never shown to use lashings on the battlefield with the exception of reverse lashings to pull arrows to a bridge/shield and a one on one duel. And also because the one time he thinks about their application in a fight (the training fight with The Lopen, Rock and Sigzil) he explicitly thinks that stormlight augmentation would be more useful to him because of how unfamiliar he is with his powers. 3) Actually it's almost two books (lets face it nine tenths of WoR is pretty much a book by itself anyway), he only uses surges for fighting in the second fight with Szeth, so no mojo or plain stormlight enhanced Kaladin has all the other fights we see him in: The childhood fight with staffs, saving the new kid in his squad, saving Amaram, the battle at the tower, the shardbearer brawl, the first fight with szeth, the chasmfiend and killing Graves' men. Really we know very little about how Kaladin would use his surges to fight someone else aside from chasing another person with windrunner surges compared to how Stormlight itself helps him. 4) We have absolutaly no idea about the effectiveness of Grandbows vs surges on the ten deaths because info on all three is very sparse. What if the deaths are heavily invested and so highly resistant to surges? If they are not Jasnah and anyone else who can soulcast are going to be a walking blender, I don't think that is exactly what Sanderson has in mind. 5) Sure it didn't kill the Chasmfiend, but three sets of Plate and three Blades (two sets of which were wielded by probably the best shardbearers in the books so far) were only an annoyance for a while, losing the first few legs just made it angry. Chasmfiends are hard to kill, go figure. All of this is of course ignoring that I was talking about Squires (who are not believed to posses surges or blades at the moment) not Knights and that my comment was more of a "wouldn't it be cool if..." rather than "OMG Grandbows so OP!!1! Surges and Blades are for N00bZ, all the 733ts use a grandbow." Maybe this reply is a bit too aggressive, it honestly isn't my attention to offend. But questioning whether I read the book then yourself ignoring evidence in the books to try and argue with an opinion which you mangled from "I would love to see bridge four with bows" to "Kaladin's surges and blade are useless in a fight" rustled my feathers a bit and now it is too long for a re-write in a more moderate tone right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Kaladin saying he was unfamiliar with his lashings occurred way before he went and jumped on and off a wall a few hundred times just to be able to fight Szeth properly. Unfamiliarity is no excuse to not do something, because you'll never be familiar with it before doing it. And he's actually rather good at falling with style now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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