DreamEternal Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) What if there is a group in Shinovar that seeks to return the ancient magics, and tried to convert a stone shaman apprentice to their cause by revealing the next desolation is near? Except they choose the most brainwashed shin in all Shinovar, Szeth. So he warned his superiors that they must give their shardblades to the rest of Roshar, wield the honorblades and protect the world, as their ancient mission states. But the SS denounced it as a false, blasphemous alarm, and the punishment for raising a false alarm is to be a truthless. Edited June 23, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
Mistrunner Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Okay... first time really theorizing around here... hope I don't embarrass myself too badly. Here are my notes. Well, what seems pretty important to me are a few words: Thing one: "There are four whom we watch.... The world can change.... One of them may redeem us, and one of them will destroy us." (Emphasis mine) So, multiple people- and they aren't participating. They're watching. Don't know what this implies, but it sounds important. And then there's the may redeem us and will destroy us. Who does "us" refer to? Does "us" refer to the people of Roshar, or just those who are watching (possibly the spren)? As we all know, Pattern is constantly talking about how eventually Shallan will betray her oaths and kill him. That's a point towards a spren's voice here. (When looking through previous posts just now, I saw that NavySealsGuy said something to this effect.) Then there's "Men seek that which is lost. I fear the struggle will destroy them." This can be interpreted to mean the speaker isn't human, but it's debatable. This reinforces the point, to me, that the person is just watching. Aaand wild blind jump into complete blind speculation! What if the speaker is the one who wrote the second of the Letters? It would explain why he's just watching. The tone seems about right. Still, wild guess. Thoughts? 1
Bort he/him Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 My guess is that it is written by Nazh, or maybe his employer, Khriss. Failing that, my other thought is that they are written by one of the Listeners. 1
CalaCrisp88 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Just want to say, I didn't read every single comment on this thread. This might have already been mentioned, or it might just be painfully obvious to everyone. I'm kinda new here though, so don't kill me TOO much. "The world became ours, and WE lost it. Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of MEN than victory itself." That was the back of WoK. To me, that seems like pretty indisputable evidence that it is a human on Roshar and not a spren or something. 1
Moash Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Can someone explain the concept of these god spren to me? I have heard of stormfather and nightwatcher of course, but I have not heard of this third god spren. It just goes along with what I like about Roshar how it feels like there is so much hidden information that we all sort of start thinking about and uncovering. It really feels like there is an endless limit of information and factors in the story that is ranging with so much we do not know. I really do like that. With that being said, is anyone able to explain the godspren? I would really appreciate it.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Can someone explain the concept of these god spren to me? I have heard of stormfather and nightwatcher of course, but I have not heard of this third god spren. It just goes along with what I like about Roshar how it feels like there is so much hidden information that we all sort of start thinking about and uncovering. It really feels like there is an endless limit of information and factors in the story that is ranging with so much we do not know. I really do like that. With that being said, is anyone able to explain the godspren? I would really appreciate it. http://coppermind.net/wiki/Cusicesh Explains the 3rd known (sorta) godspren. From what i understand, godspren are large spren (possibly originating when Adonalsium visited or otherwise) that have a larger amount of Investment (bigger Splinters) compared to most other species of spren, as well as a great deal of sentience. It is also possible that the Unmade may be/have become Godspren but that is is unknown. 1
DreamEternal Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 http://coppermind.net/wiki/Cusicesh Explains the 3rd known (sorta) godspren. From what i understand, godspren are large spren (possibly originating when Adonalsium visited or otherwise) that have a larger amount of Investment (bigger Splinters) compared to most other species of spren, as well as a great deal of sentience. It is also possible that the Unmade may be/have become Godspren but that is is unknown. Also, Cusicesh is only suspected to be a "godspren", and most likely one that got somehow broken. The theory about godspren is centered around the idea that above a certain threshold of power a splinter ceases to be a regular spren and follows a different set of rules. This would explain how bondsmiths could come from bonding both the Nightwatcher andvthe Stormfather, wich are so different. *Altought I don't truly believe this theory, prefering to think the Stormfather, being as mighty as he is, can bond multiple Radiants. 1
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Also, Cusicesh is only suspected to be a "godspren", and most likely one that got somehow broken. The theory about godspren is centered around the idea that above a certain threshold of power a splinter ceases to be a regular spren and follows a different set of rules. This would explain how bondsmiths could come from bonding both the Nightwatcher andvthe Stormfather, wich are so different. *Altought I don't truly believe this theory, prefering to think the Stormfather, being as mighty as he is, can bond multiple Radiants. Hence, the 'sorta' I've got my own ideas of cusicesh, but waiting on a question to be answered first Edited July 26, 2015 by ParadoxSpren
Moash Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Wow, never heard of The Protector before! If there are three god spren with stormfather representing surgebinding and Nightwatcher representing old magic, would Cusicesh represent Voidbinding? I personally do not think so, but could he be an evil spren or something?
Darkness he/him Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 So... on first glance I assumed the writing was either Cusicesh/Nightwatcher or an excerpt from the Listeners' songs. However, reading them more closely (please re-read tWoK and WoR passages with this in mind), to me Rlain makes the most sense as the writer. Spoiler for lengthy explanation + line by line breakdown "I long for the days before the Last Desolation. The age before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us. (agrees with the Listener background of being on the good side and having spren, then slowly being corrupted and falling to Odium. From their side the Knights' pre-emptive action against any untainted Listeners could have seemed a betrayal) A time where there was still magic in the world and honor in the hearts of men. The world became ours, and we lost it. (again referencing the fall of the Listeners through corruption)Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself. (bitterness at being made into slaves)Or was that victory an illusion all along?Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted? (inner resistance against the corruption? Resistance against humans? I think the first)Perhaps they saw that the heat and the hammer made for a better grade of sword.But ignore the steel for long enough, and it begins to rust away. (slowly the Listeners recovered their souls through the inattention of Odium)There are four whom we watch. (obvious Listener clue to me, more specifically Rlain, who is doing the actual watching)The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing, to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time (a present day writer, feels connected to the time of war).The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills.The third is the liar, a young women who wears a scholars mantle over the heart of a thief.The last is a highprince, a warlord whose eyes have been opened to the past and whose thirst for battle wanes.The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardweilding can return; the magic of the ancient days can become ours again.These four people are key.One of them may redeem us,And one of them will destroy us." and "The Knights Radiant must stand again. The ancient oaths have at last been spoken; the spren return. Men seek that which was lost. I fear the struggle will destroy them. (Rlain would fear that, being sympathetic to the bridge men at least)It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit. Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves. They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures. (Listeners know this firsthand).The Windrunner, lost in a shattered land, balanced upon the boundary between vengeance and honor. The Lightweaver, slowly being consumed by her past, searching for the lie that she must become. The Bondsmith, born in blood and death, striving to rebuild what was destroyed. The Explorer, straddling the fates of two peoples, forced to choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes.It is past time for them to awaken, for the Everstorm looms.And the Assassin has arrived." (arrived... usually means the writer is present at the location being arrived at) 5
ARARITA he/him Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I originally commented Nightwatcher or the Parshendi ... @ Darkness : I really like your interpretation / analysis not sure if it is Rlain but i do like that the Parshendi are watching and in communication together still not 100% on board - but your interpretation is strong IMO i do still think they live a real long time and that adds weight to the guess IMO
Caewryn Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Why not Hoid as the writer as both the synopsis?He seems to know a lot about what is happening in the world and as a Worldsinger,would have to spread the tales of what happened. And I don't think the prophecy is absolute.If Honor could die,why would the prophecy be absolute? Edited September 3, 2015 by Caewryn
natc Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Preservation's prophecy turned out more or less entirely accurate (can't be known for sure since parts of it are corrupted) despite him dying being part of the plan from the beginning. Shardic death doesn't do much for prophetic accuracy, it seems. Especially since they're not usually doing anything to force things to happen. On the other hand, Honor openly admits to being terrible at seeing the future when compared to Cultivation, so dead or otherwise we probably shouldn't trust anything coming from him. Edited September 3, 2015 by natc
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 Can you tell us who wrote the words on the back cover of Way of Kings? Not yet, but it will come out before too much longer. Im guessing book 3 will hold the answer. 1
Oversleep Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 I have my books translated to Polish and never picked up and all these things, partially because translation lacks a few lines...: "I long for the days before the Last Desolation.The age before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us.A time where there was still magic in the world and honor in the hearts of men.The world became ours, and we lost it.Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself.Or was that victory an illusion all along?Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted?Perhaps they saw that the heat and the hammer made for a better grade of sword.But ignore the steel for long enough, and it begins to rust away.There are four whom we watch.The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing, to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time.The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills.The third is the liar, a young women who wears a scholars mantle over the heart of a thief.The last is a highprince, a warlord whose eyes have been opened to the past and whose thirst for battle wanes. (the translation is wrong here as it says "in grip of bloodlust" or something along these lines)The world can change.Surgebinding and Shard(s)weilding can return; the magic of the ancient days can become ours again.These four people are key.One of them may redeem us,And one of them will destroy us." The Knights Radiant must stand again.The ancient oaths have at last been spoken; the spren return. Men seek that which was lost. I fear the struggle will destroy them.It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit. Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves. They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures.The Windrunner, lost in a shattered land, balanced upon the boundary between vengeance and honor. The Lightweaver, slowly being consumed by her past, searching for the lie that she must become. The Bondsmith, born in blood and death, striving to rebuild what was destroyed. The Explorer, straddling the fates of two peoples, forced to choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes.It is past time for them to awaken, for the Everstorm looms.And the Assassin has arrived. I think that the passages about Heralds abandoning us and Radiants turning against us speaks strongly about writer being part of humanity which was abandoned and turned against."Our enemies" speaks about Voidbringers and whose enemies Voidbringers were? Humanity.All of the synopsysies are written as if the writer expieriences the events right now. The Everstorm looms. It's not yet there.
Jofwu he/him Posted February 10, 2016 Posted February 10, 2016 I long for the days before the Last Desolation.The age before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us. A time where there was still magic in the world and honor in the hearts of men. The world became ours, and we lost it. Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself. Or was that victory an illusion all along? Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted? Those first lines suggest that the author is very old. It could be a regular man longing for his idea of what those ancient times were like. But it sounds to me like the author actually remembers those times. And it's somebody who knows the truth about the Heralds- something very few people are aware of. There are four whom we watch... Surgebinding and Shardweilding can return; the magic of the ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key. These lines (paired with the conclusions above) suggest to me that it's a spren speaking. We know that the spren are watching mankind, that they know about Surgebinding and [true] Shardweilding, and that they know the truth of everything. Seems to me that it's either one of the great spren (probably not Stormfather, judging from the content and tone) or one of the Truthwatcher spren (perhaps Glys) since these sort of observations seem to be their expertise. As for prophecy, I don't think that's really what we're reading. The speaker notes that these four characters are important and that one of them "will destroy us", but that's the most definite fact spoken about the future. The comments about each character are not prophecy- they're just facts. The speaker isn't predicting their futures- just revealing knowledge about them as they currently are. "One might save us" is just speaking about what might be and not what will be. The Diagram seems to claim more about the future than the backs of the books do. Regardless, I wouldn't worry too much. From what I've read, Sanderson usually does a pretty good job handling prophecy (or expectations in general) in a way that still leaves room for twists. See Mistborn.
Maple Duke he/him Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 What if it is one of the Unmade? We don't know that much about them so I can't offer much in the way of proof, but that is also a point in their benefit, they might fit the role of the speaker perfectly and we don't know it. I feel like the Unmade have a closer connection to the spiritual realm and I personally would love to get a closer look at the spiritual realm. I saw a theory at one point that suggested that as main characters were killed/died that we might follow their journey through the afterlife (I'd put a link but I'm to lazy to find it again) The third book might be a good place to kill off a character that we originally thought was going to have a big part in the story (Dalinar?) and then book four opens with them in the Tranquile Halls. probably not, it's just a thought. Let me know if you think it could be the Unmade even if you might not agree with the spiritual realm stuff.
DreamEternal Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 The Spiritual Realm is not the afterlife. There is generaly a short a "grace period" in the Cognitive Realm, then the mind goes somewhere else, that lies beyond the Realms. There are some cases of said grace period being extended, like Mistborn Spoilers: Kelsier But Brandon wants to keep the final afterlife, or even its existence, up to the reader, so unless the Tranquiline Halls are a planet populated by rosharan ghosts fleeing from Shadesmar, the most we would probably get from a dead character is them hanging out with spren in Shadesmar.
Anthony Pero Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) I realize this has be discussed in another thread, but this thread is the top search on Google for this topic, so, someone should probably post it. After Edgedancer, I think its likely that the Dysian hordelings, perhaps the one in Edgedancer, are writing the documents on the back cover copy. They check all the boxes. They're immortal, would remember the Heralds, and the Last Desolation, and the Dysian specifically mentions to Lift that they are watching the four surgebinders, and gives them the same titles as in the back cover copy of tWoK. The Assassin, the surgeon, the highprince, and the liar. The Dysian in Edgedancer may be in the city because he is actually watching Szeth. Edited September 15, 2017 by Anthony Pero
Calderis he/him Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Anthony Pero said: I realize this has be discussed in another thread, but this thread is the top search on Google for this topic, so, someone should probably post it. After Edgedancer, I think its likely that the Dysian hordelings, perhaps the one in Edgedancer, are writing the documents on the back cover copy. They check all the boxes. They're immortal, would remember the Heralds, and the Last Desolation, and the Dysian specifically mentions to Lift that they are watching the four surgebinders, and gives them the same titles as in the back cover copy of tWoK. The Assassin, the surgeon, the highprince, and the liar. The Dysian in Edgedancer may be in the city because he is actually watching Szeth. This has been confirmed. The Sleepless are the authors.
Weltall Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) WoB confirming this here Edited September 15, 2017 by Weltall
Borio Singaldi he/him Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Weltall said: WoB confirming this here For some reason, the link isn't taking me to any question; just a blank page. I actually once asked about who wrote the covers once, too, but I already thought I knew who it was. It's the first theory in my signature, and its title is pretty self-explanatory. Edited September 15, 2017 by Firerust Specification
Weltall Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 My fault, I screwed up the link. Fixed it now.
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