Long Game 10: A Game of Shards

[Unodus he/him]

Panda, If we're going to win, we're also going to need Hoid to be super-charged to make full use of his powers. You admit that there will be mislynching, but we can't afford to lose any more major roles. This means we have to wait a few turns to give Hoid the chance to be invested by as many Shards as possible before we start accusing each other without any information. There is never information in the first few cycles, therefore- the first few cycle will almost certainly be mislynches. We can bypass this waste by just waiting a few turns before we throw out major accusations, which will give people in major roles more time to use their powers. I'm not saying we shouldn't do nothing, poking people for information has its uses, I admit- but following through with them only creates more suspicion that ultimately just repeats the cycle. Information from lynches isn't enough to prove someone guilt, we have to rely on other sources of information to back up our points. For example, we must consider that there is information that, as regular Worldhoppers, we cannot know. Endowment already knows who all the shards are, and we can assume Cultivation is making PMs for trusted individuals who are concocting a plan of sorts. We have to put faith in our shards because they know what we can't, for the sake of protecting themselves from Odium. I'm not saying that we should just believe people randomly, but that some people know more than they're letting on. Therefore, we can't just kill people on a whim. 

 

The Eliminators rely on our mistrust of each other  to hide within the crowd, the Lynching only works because its inevitable that we catch someone eventually. How many people have to die before that happens? Better to wait until we actually gather real evidence than to risk killing someone of strategic importance.

 

Snoopy, there's no guarantee that an investiee will become Odium in these early cycles- what it does do is eliminate the potential people who could be Odium. Ruin will only need to kill the investiee if we catch Odium within the same turn. If that does happen, we'll win the game. (OC can't kill anyone by themselves).

Edited February 8, 2015 by Unodus

[Unodus he/him]

Wait, how many OC are there?

[Kipper he/him]

We don't know.

[the winter system]

Depends on the number of people.Five, maybe, with the number of players. Maybe more or less.

 

Kae wanted to strangle someone. Nothing was getting done. Cleo looked up at him disapprovingly.

"Isn't that the 'I want to kill someone' face?"

Kae chuckled. "You're starting to get to know my moods." 

"Not that hard. That 'I want to kill someone' face was the only look I'd ever seen on your face before the Alliance was formed." 

"Hilarious." 

"What's that supposed to mean?" Cleo demanded.

"You're adorable when your face gets red like that." Cleo's face turned an even darker shade of red. 

"Shut up." Cleo mumbled, reaching for her daggers.

"Or what, you'll stab me?" 

"Yes." An allomatic pulse showed up on Kae's bronze radar. She always burned copper when she was upset. It was kind of cute, actually. 

[vineyarddawg]

Unodus, I really don't mean to be insulting with this comment, but it seems like either you're trying to intentionally mislead us or you haven't read the rules of the game very well.  Clearly, Odium would choose to invest in his OC's, not a regular villager, since the OC's are on his team.  And the OC's have no reason to tell anyone outside of their own team that they were invested. 

 

Also, when a shard is shattered (unless by Odium), the investiture ability survives, since it's given to the last person in whom he invested.  So if we lynch Odium or get Ruin to kill him, his investiture ability... 1 kill a night... would still survive.  And even if we did manage to kill both Odium and his investee in the same night, that's still only 2 of Team Odium.  We don't insta-win in that case.  We'd still have to find and kill the rest of the OC's (I guess that would be 3 others, if Winter is right and there are 5), which wouldn't be easy.  With no kill power, it would be far easier for them to blend in with the rest of the crowd.

[the winter system]

That was a random guess. Don't assume I was right.

[Unodus he/him]

Sorry, I was under the impression that there was only one OC for some reason x.x

If Odium did invest in one of his own, though- why was their only one kill last night..? Surely Odium and the OC he invested in would have made their Order...

[Kipper he/him]

 

Also, when a shard is shattered (unless by Odium), the investiture ability survives, since it's given to the last person in whom he invested.

I think it actually goes to Endowment, correct? 

So if we lynch Odium or get Ruin to kill him, his investiture ability... 1 kill a night... would still survive.

Actually, according to my reading of the rules, Odium (the entire Shard) would go to the last Investee. So it would be equivalent to losing one OC.  

And even if we did manage to kill both Odium and his investee in the same night, that's still only 2 of Team Odium.  We don't insta-win in that case.  We'd still have to find and kill the rest of the OC's (I guess that would be 3 others, if Winter is right and there are 5), which wouldn't be easy.  With no kill power, it would be far easier for them to blend in with the rest of the crowd.[/color]

I was just about to make this point. Wholeheartedly agreed. Plus, if Devotion thought the lynches were wrong, she could just stop them.

Sorry, I was under the impression that there was only one OC for some reason x.x

If Odium did invest in one of his own, though- why was their only one kill last night..? Surely Odium and the OC he invested in would have made their Order...

Maybe he didn't want the Witness to pick him out.

[vineyarddawg]

Not according to the rules document, Snoopy.  Odium's shard is the only one that doesn't go to Endowment.  His power goes to/stays with his last investee.  You're right, though, it does say "his shard" and not "his investiture power," so that does make it sound like the entire shard goes to his last investee.  Maybe Joe could clarify that for us.

 

EDIT: blue

Edited February 9, 2015 by vineyarddawg

[Kipper he/him]

Not according to the rules document, Snoopy.  Odium's shard is the only one that doesn't go to Endowment.  His power goes to/stays with his last investee.  You're right, though, it does say "his shard" and not "his investiture power," so that does make it sound like the entire shard goes to his last investee.  Maybe Joe could clarify that for us.

 

EDIT: blue

Hmmmm. Are you sure? Until Joe clarifies, your explanation just doesn't seem right to me. I could be wrong, though.

[vineyarddawg]

Hmmmm. Are you sure? Until Joe clarifies, your explanation just doesn't seem right to me. I could be wrong, though.

 

I'm just reading from the Expanded rules document (the link I posted).  This is the Odium section (relevant section bolded by me):

 

ODIUM: Shardic: Once per night, Odium can target a player for death. If that player is a Shard, they die, and their power is shattered. This removes the shard from the game, not allowing Endowment to give it to someone. Odium can NOT shatter Endowment.

Investiture: During the Day, Odium can invest in a worldhopper. That player can kill a non shardic player during the night phase of the same cycle. IF they target a Shard, the Shard Miraculously survives.

NOTE: If Odium dies, his shard is given to the player last invested in rather than to Endowment.

[Kipper he/him]

Just to clarify, are we talking about Odium or another Shard dying?

[vineyarddawg]

Just to clarify, are we talking about Odium or another Shard dying?

 

Odium.  Unodus was talking about us killing Odium, so that's what I was addressing.  I see now in your quote that I accidentally wrote a confusing sentence there.  What I meant is that, in general, a shard's investiture survives unless that shard is killed by Odium. I assume Odium wouldn't shatter himself, so Odium's investiture ability will survive after Odium is shattered, and it would be given to the last person in whom Odium invested.  Sorry for the confusing wording earlier.

[Kipper he/him]

Right, but I thought that it meant the entire Odium was given to the last Investee. I still think that.

[Lord Pifferdoo he/him]

Isn't in our best interests, if we find Odium, to lock him down with something like Ruin's Investment Power?

[Kipper he/him]

Yes, definitely. I think this was discussed before.

[vineyarddawg]

Yes, definitely. I think this was discussed before.

 

I agree, but the bottom line is that I was addressing Unodus' comments, which seem more and more suspicious to me.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

I agree with the idea of anyone who gets invested by odium to come forward. anyone who is an oc probably wouldn't, because it would draw attention to themselves, which is what they DON'T want.

As repeated by the other players, Odium would probably never invest in an OC. There's no point. Even if someone did claim to be Invested in, the OC's would probably just jump on the poor chap and lynch them, under the excuse that the player could possibly be an OC.

Unodus, a Shard or Hoid could simply reveal their roles before we sccidentally lynch them. It's been done before.

I can't properly emphasize how important the lynches are. It's one of the few places where the Eliminators can slip up in. Without it, the Eliminators could just play passive and kill us off slowly.

Yes, I know I should be blue_texting, but I'm on a phone right now.

[Lord Pifferdoo he/him]

And now we wait for inevitable death. 

[Lord Pifferdoo he/him]

As repeated by the other players, Odium would probably never invest in an OC. There's no point. Even if someone did claim to be Invested in, the OC's would probably just jump on the poor chap and lynch them, under the excuse that the player could possibly be an OC.

 

 

Do you mean that Odium would probably never Invest in a non-OC? Wouldn't Investing in a Champion maximize the Eliminator's killings?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Day 3: Sic Semper Tyrannis

 

“It doesn’t matter that Clink was an Innocent. You didn’t have all the information, and acted on what you did have.” Mlys was still trying to console him about Clink’s death the day before, but Mek wouldn’t hear any of it.

 

“He was on my side, he was trying to bring down Odium! Doesn’t killing someone who is loyal to your goals count as a crime?” In retrospect, it seemed so stupid to have killed Clink. They should have waited, and gathered more information. “You know Mlys, from now on, I’m going to go slower, consider-”

 

The ring of a sword being Drawn. Mek whirled, drawing Mlys into his sword form while trying to summon his armor. He blocked the first blow, barely, and instinctively swept his shardblade into the blade of the sword to sever it. His assailant blocked, and the sword remained uncut.

 

“You think I would go up against a Shardbearer without an uncuttable sword?” The figure, clothed in black and dripping red smoke, laughed at him. “Fool. You should have learned from Jost’s death. We know how to kill Radiants.” The Champion stabbed forward with the sword, but Mek blocked again, jumping back to bring his full reach into play.

 

“Why would you join Odium?” He swung again, mid sentence, trying to distract the figure. “He wants to destroy everything!” Another swing. Another block.

 

The figure tensed. “Why? Because I hate you. I hate all of you, with your shards and power, lording over the rest of us! Using your Power to become Tyrants! The Dread Lord may be another Shard, but he gives us Power, Power to Destroy!” The figures swings were getting wilder now. Mek blocked with more ease.

 

But then, something, a stick or a branch, cracked behind him, and Mek turned again to block the strike he knew was coming, but no one was there, unless they were hiding still.

 

The sword cut deep into his shoulder. Mek screamed in agony, and sucked up as much stormlight as he could, dropping his blade from a lifeless hand. He tried to jump away as he resummoned Mlys, but the figure’s blade cut through his neck next. The figure crouched down over the corpse, and whispered, “The Broken One will reign again.”

____________________________________________________________________

 

“Welcome to Scadrial! Yes welcome all!” Gerald Hobbes greeted people as they entered his keep. shaking his hand and talking of a wide variety of subjects. One of them he knew was certainly Odium, but most of the others were probably on his side, so he could be friendly.

 

Another figure entered, smiling warmly at him. Hobbes couldn’t quite place them, or even tell anything about them, other than He should trust them. “Welcome, m’lady? May i Ask of your name?”

 

The figure laughed once, and grasped his outstretched hand. “I can’t stay long, I’m just here to deliver a gift.” The figure glowed, as light poured from (Him? Her?) into Gerald. “I trust you. Don’t let me down.” Hobbes stumbled back, the feeling the Investiture gave him was wonderful.

 

“Thank you, Devotion.”

 

Mek was killed. He was a Normal Worldhopper.

 

Snoopy is immune to lynches today!

 

Day 3 will end at 10pm PST on Tuesday the 10th.

 

Updated Player List:

1. Maw (Mailliw73)

2. Second of Sky (Alvron)

3. Aonar Izenry (Aonar Faileas)

4. Gramps (GammaFiend)

5. Jain (Lightsworn Panda)

6. Bortin (Bort)

7. Cleo and Kae(Winter Cloud)

8. Lady Otrisce Maleris Tekil (ostrichofevil)

9. Aranad Longbeard (Araris Valerian)

10. Gerald Hobbes (Snoopy)

11. Frank (Feligon)

12. Derushe Tuskuntore (Unodus)

13. Captain Qayshar Junglewood (swalji09)

14. Martin (Antillar Maximus)

15. Leif Erikson (Leiftinspace)

16. Animus (Tulir)

17. Peng (JasonPenguin))

18. KaanDra (Ashiok)

19. VineyerianDagar (Vineyarddawg)

20. Eolkin(Eolhondras)

21. Raiki Morin (Twelthrootoftwo)

22. dorin (Dowanx)

23. Scree (Sarcomere)

24. Cognition (Metacognition)

25. Baron Von Piff (Pifferdoo)

26. Lu (Luckat

 

1. Satrams - A Normal Worldhopper mistaken for Hoid

2. Clink - A Village Poisoner whose wares were too costly.

3. Mek - A Normal Worldhopper who lost a swordfight.

Edited February 9, 2015 by The Only Joe

[vineyarddawg]

So, this is why I was so interested in the witness role last cycle.  I'm a witness.  And I saw Antillar Maximus.

 

I'm sure he'll claim the reverse, so if he does, just kill us both to be sure.  I don't mind dying to take out an OC or Odium.

 

EDIT: This is also why I was asking in the Roshar PM group if anybody knew or had access to Cultivation. I wouldn't have spoken up so easily if I had had someone to PM about it.

Edited February 9, 2015 by vineyarddawg

[Kipper he/him]

*five! guests lurk in the shadows to the left*

[A Joe in the Bush]

Oh, and I forgot to write this in. I'll edit it in Shortly, but Snoopy has been invested by Devotion, and is immune to lynches this cycle.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

So, this is why I was so interested in the witness role last cycle.  I'm a witness.  And I saw Antillar Maximus.

 

I'm sure he'll claim the reverse, so if he does, just kill us both to be sure.  I don't mind dying to take out an OC or Odium.

 

EDIT: This is also why I was asking in the Roshar PM group if anybody knew or had access to Cultivation. I wouldn't have spoken up so easily if I had had someone to PM about it.

Vineyard, with things like this, it's much better to wait until midway through the cycle or so to reveal this so that we can see how the OC has been acting today before we caught them. I'm not certain that you are the Witness, but I'm also not certain of the reverse. Currently, I'd say that Antillar is more suspicious, but I'll wait to see his response.