Aminar Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Unfortunately it's hard not to chalk it all up to Harmony's influence. The letter to Spook indicated that the four remaining metals were meant to be found. It's plausible to say the planet was edited to accomodate that fact. Well yeah. If I were Sazed I'd make the other allomantic metals available too. It all works out quite nicely really. I haven't been saying The planet always had more metals, but I'm also tempted to think that all of Scadrial's metals act like Atium did, reintegrating with the planet after being burnt when the energy spent recongeals. Another thing I'd do as an author...
Observer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Well yeah. If I were Sazed I'd make the other allomantic metals available too. It all works out quite nicely really. I haven't been saying The planet always had more metals, but I'm also tempted to think that all of Scadrial's metals act like Atium did, reintegrating with the planet after being burnt when the energy spent recongeals. Another thing I'd do as an author... Of all magics, Scadrial's is the only non-renewable. I can see them attacking and taking over other planets and then viciously running through their metal deposits in a quest for power. Edited September 6, 2012 by Observer
Aminar Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I hope not. I've been sick of ecoawareness stories since Fern Gully and Captain Planet and those came out when I was pretty young. 6 or 7 maybe. It'd just wind up feeling preachy and Brandon hasn't been preachy yet. Characters have been but the stories possess subtlety. 1
Pechvarry Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) This thread has become... Tangential. But while luck is being discussed so heavily... What do we know about predestiny in the Cosmere? I seem to remember Brandon saying it's set in stone unless you can see it. What if Luck is just reforging your destiny, with you none the wiser? If certain individuals have higher priority destinies (vin), storing would lower that priority while tapping would raise it. This wouldn't tell us what kind of stuff it can do, just an idea of what is actually occurring. Edited September 7, 2012 by Pechvarry 2
Kiwi Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Haha, I was going to say the same thing Pechvarry But at least it brought up an interesting discussion on Luck Had a couple of others that I thought of though... 1.) Would students be searched for Copper Metalmind before taking tests? Or possibly even a Zinc Metalmind? 2.) Can you imagine what an already fantastic tasting meal would be like if you could use Tin either Allomantically or Feruchemically? (I wonder what compounding those 2 would be like... almost like Rachel on that Syfy show Alphas) I know they are kind of mundane, but still neat to think about how you or I could use Allomancy or Feruchemy in everyday, mundane situations. Or maybe it's just me
Aminar Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Haha, I was going to say the same thing Pechvarry But at least it brought up an interesting discussion on Luck Had a couple of others that I thought of though... 1.) Would students be searched for Copper Metalmind before taking tests? Or possibly even a Zinc Metalmind? 2.) Can you imagine what an already fantastic tasting meal would be like if you could use Tin either Allomantically or Feruchemically? (I wonder what compounding those 2 would be like... almost like Rachel on that Syfy show Alphas) I know they are kind of mundane, but still neat to think about how you or I could use Allomancy or Feruchemy in everyday, mundane situations. Or maybe it's just me Pretty hard to search for a metalmind when they can pretty easily have them implanted subdermally or have it riding in your underclothes. I guess Feruchemists and certain Ferrings just get to rock tests(which makes sense really. it is their knowledge.
name_here Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) I also think it would at least make sense to have Zinc and Copper feruchemists go to specialized schools, although that might not be popular. In particular, there is very little point to having Copper feruchemists sit through efforts to help students memorize certain facts, because in their actual jobs they'll just pull relevant information from their copperminds. Ideally, they'd be handed a textbook and allowed to bring their copperminds to tests but no other notes or whatever, and then the tests would largely be application, e.g. instead of a test where they must demonstrate that they have memorized principles of yield strength, material properties, and torque, they would get one where they must design a bridge to specifications. Zinc probably only gives advantages under time pressure, so whether they'd have an advantage or not would depend on the test. The fairest method would be to give them plenty of advance warnings of tests and then require them to complete them under much tighter time pressure. Alternately, they could all land in advanced courses with much harder content and tests. What it really boils down to is political opinions on educational matters and fairness. Basically, it depends on whether the mental enhancements are considered an unfair advantage or divine providence or whatever. The specialized and advanced schools would be best for the students from the perspective of preparing them to be as good as possible in later occupations, but would likely be less than popular with the people they're going to outcompete with their education and feruchemical powers. I doubt Chromium alters the fixed future because the fixed timeline includes the use of Chromium. Basically it seems to be fixed in a single timeline unless someone learns about future events through temporal powers and acts in response. Having a single timeline would create a paradox in those cases, because if they react to what would happen without them seeing the future, they'll create something different, but if they see the results of them reacting instead, then they wouldn't react in that manner, but if they don't react in that manner then that future doesn't exist, but... and then fixed time gets a headache and turns into a shadow cloud. Edited September 6, 2012 by name_here
Kiwi Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 So what about different combinations for Twinborn? I always thought Wax's combo was really convenient being able to manipulate his weight to Steelpush more. Or would it be Steelpush harder? Idk A Bronze Ferring/Tin Misting might be slightly better than a normal Tineye. Would be perfect for a stakeout haha. I know a Nicrosil Ferring isn't fully understood yet, but if I'm correct in my speculation about them storing Allomantic abilities, Twinborns who are Nicrosil Ferrings could be extremely powerful depending on what kind of Misting they are. Again I know it's an assumption, but seems likely with it storing "Investiture"... and it would be WAY cool. With that post "Traversing the Borders of Time Bubbles", I wonder what would happen if a Slider put up a Time Bubble, and a Steelrunner ran through it really fast. Would it be any different than just walking through it? Ok enough of all that... any other ideas? Doesn't have to pertain to Twinborn, it could be a combo between 2 people too.
Observer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I know a Nicrosil Ferring isn't fully understood yet, but if I'm correct in my speculation about them storing Allomantic abilities, -snip- Not to slam you down, but I'm pretty sure this theroy makes more sense. Double tin would be the most dreaded of all food critics.
Kiwi Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Not to slam you down, but I'm pretty sure this theroy makes more sense. Double tin would be the most dreaded of all food critics. Ouch... I feel totally slammed now No j/k, I was just throwing stuff out there. I hadn't seen that post, so thanks for that. But hasn't it been implied that there's a way to enhance Allomancy through Feruchemy? If it's already been puzzled out I apologize, but I could have sworn I've read that some where, and I just took the word "Investiture" to be related to a Shard's "Investiture" of a magic system to the population on a world. I just don't see being a "Walking Aluminum" to be very... exciting. I mean there are already Aluminum Guns, Aluminum Bullets, Aluminum ringed hats, etc. Why not just put a thin sheet of Aluminum over or around anything you don't want pushed or pulled? There was even a recent post about what you were talking about (Idk how to link yet sorry). It's in the Ultimate list of questions. Anyways, basically the reason you can't push/pull a Shardblade is because it's "too heavily invested" where as Metalminds/Hemalurgic Spikes/Metals in the body are considered to be "less invested", or something like that lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, nana nana boo boo... I like the idea of being able to "Invest" something so it can't be manipulated w/ Pushing or Pulling. I just don't see a whole Feruchemical Ability being devoted to something that can already possibly be done, not to mention that most Lurchers or Coinshots wouldn't be strong enough to push or pull them on their own (MAYBE if they had a Nicroburst partner, or Lerasium or it's Alloys becomes more available). Sorry for being long winded, but I've never had the chance to discuss this kind of thing because none of my friends will read the books, and they look at me stupid when I start babbling hehe.
Observer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 -snip- My thread pretty much states that Investure is Shardic power. Your body is invested, hence it can't be pushed easily. Same for shardblades. I imagine something lashed would be harder to allomantically effect, and the reverse (Them being unlashable) as well. (So Soulbearers would be Szeth's weakness) Simply put, I'm not limiting investure to being walking aluminum, I'm moving it up a step. I say it was the reason for Dahkor AonDor immunity, and Soulbearers would be able to do something similar. For all we know, it could be used to temporarily gain access to a magic system, though I'm less sur eon this one. All the same, I think Nicro ferrings have a ton mor epotential than mere walking aluminium.
Kiwi Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Oh wow, I didn't think of it that way. I guess I didn't understand your initial thread you posted. I shall bow to your wisdom :-) Ty for the lesson Edited September 7, 2012 by Kiwi
Aminar Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 My thread pretty much states that Investure is Shardic power. Your body is invested, hence it can't be pushed easily. Same for shardblades. I imagine something lashed would be harder to allomantically effect, and the reverse (Them being unlashable) as well. (So Soulbearers would be Szeth's weakness) Simply put, I'm not limiting investure to being walking aluminum, I'm moving it up a step. I say it was the reason for Dahkor AonDor immunity, and Soulbearers would be able to do something similar. For all we know, it could be used to temporarily gain access to a magic system, though I'm less sur eon this one. All the same, I think Nicro ferrings have a ton mor epotential than mere walking aluminium. And yet they'd be useless most of the time as they'd have to gain access to another power and be able to use their nicro-storage. I would guess at best as a Twinborn they're capable of enhancing their allomancy like a duraluminum burst with their feruchemy. (Speaking of which, has there ever been discussion on if Hemalurgy can steal other magic systems? Because dear god an Inquisitor with access to Aons...
Observer Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Wisdom? I have nothing of the sort. Wisdom would imply an excessive power of judgement, and therefore a clear conscionce. All I have is memory loss that attemps to pass as one. And yet they'd be useless most of the time as they'd have to gain access to another power and be able to use their nicro-storage. I would guess at best as a Twinborn they're capable of enhancing their allomancy like a duraluminum burst with their feruchemy. (Speaking of which, has there ever been discussion on if Hemalurgy can steal other magic systems? Because dear god an Inquisitor with access to Aons... Hemalurgy can't steal the soul of anybody but a Scardrialian as far as I know. Edited September 7, 2012 by Observer
Observer Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) -doublepost- Edited September 7, 2012 by Observer
Cracknut he/him Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Hemalurgy can't steal the soul of anybody but a Scardrialian as far as I know. I think Hemalurgy can be used on anyone but it won't grant Alomantic or Feruchemical abilities and it can't steal other magic-systems because Mistborn magic-systems are based on Metals while others aren't(You can make Koloss from anyone but no Inquisitors).
Aminar Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 I think Hemalurgy can be used on anyone but it won't grant Alomantic or Feruchemical abilities and it can't steal other magic-systems because Mistborn magic-systems are based on Metals while others aren't(You can make Koloss from anyone but no Inquisitors). But look at it from a broader spectrum. Hemalurgy takes parts of the soul-the spiritual realm-which is how it takes magic. In theory they should be able to steal anything, given a metal with the appropriate capability... So if say, Windrunning is on a close enough spritual wavelength to the physical metals(enhancing senses, body, and allowing some pushypully abilities) a steel spike should be able to steal windrunning. Now, that's a big extrapolation, but I'm tempted to think that it should work. I mean, if Hemalurgy can steal from Preservation then why not Cultivation or Odium or the other shards?
Voidus Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 There's been quite a lot of discussion about whether or not hemalurgy could be used on others, my personal opinion is that it could, there's no reason that it could be used to steal the powers granted by one shard and not those granted by another. Scadralians are also comparitively weak compared to other shardworlds we've seen so I feel that Hemalurgy would help even things out and allow them to rule the cosmere!
Cracknut he/him Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Metals stealing metal based magic makes too much sense... Is it possible to make spikes from Gemhearts?
Observer Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Most likely. Would Hemalurgy still use metal as a focus on other worlds as well? Cause gemhearts, sadly, aren't metalic.
Cracknut he/him Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Most likely. Would Hemalurgy still use metal as a focus on other worlds as well? Cause gemhearts, sadly, aren't metalic. Yes but neither are other magic-systems. Spiking someone with Gemheart would give it Stormlighted visual effect. And aren't there 10 kinds of Gemhearts or something? Edited September 7, 2012 by 213
Dahak he/him Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Metals stealing metal based magic makes too much sense... Is it possible to make spikes from Gemhearts? Possibly unnecessary since Atium spikes can steal any steal-able quality. 4
Pechvarry Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Doesn't the AoL Ars Arcanum say something about hemalurgy being of great interest to the rest of the Cosmere? Seems, to me, to imply it could work on anyone. Though I suppose it's likely it can only steal attributes and metal arts, it should be able to imbue anything with sDNA with whatever it has stored. So make a steel inquisitor out of an elantrian. 1
Observer Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Doesn't the AoL Ars Arcanum say something about hemalurgy being of great interest to the rest of the Cosmere? Seems, to me, to imply it could work on anyone. Though I suppose it's likely it can only steal attributes and metal arts, it should be able to imbue anything with sDNA with whatever it has stored. So make a steel inquisitor out of an elantrian. Scary Since it just rips off your soul and staples it to another, I'd imagine it could give other systems, but it would require not only a different set of materials, but probably a whole new set of bind points and stab points. I'd imagine Ruin could intuitively know where to stick them regardless, but it makes it all that much harder to use for anybody who's not a shard.
Cracknut he/him Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I don't know if its set in stone but Atium stealing anything makes sense. Doesn't the AoL Ars Arcanum say something about hemalurgy being of great interest to the rest of the Cosmere? Seems, to me, to imply it could work on anyone. Though I suppose it's likely it can only steal attributes and metal arts, it should be able to imbue anything with sDNA with whatever it has stored. So make a steel inquisitor out of an elantrian. Yeah that could work but they wouldn't be able to create someone with every magic-system in him and thats just sad... Scary Since it just rips off your soul and staples it to another, I'd imagine it could give other systems, but it would require not only a different set of materials, but probably a whole new set of bind points and stab points. I'd imagine Ruin could intuitively know where to stick them regardless, but it makes it all that much harder to use for anybody who's not a shard. That's why nobody uses it, even on Scadrial. Btw can Nalthisians? give Breath to people from other planets? If they can give then Hemalurgy should be able to take and I'm sure Nalthisians can give their Breath/s to anyone.
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