Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 I don't see how storing good luck makes it a smaller amount. Elaborate for this poor stupid child
Cracknut he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) I don't think its that much overpowered. Lets say you're lost in desert and need water. Luck won't create an oasis before you. It will lead you to already existing oasis which you may missed if not for luck. I don't know how it would affect other people though... And how would storing luck work? Its totally random. There are times when you're unlucky so would storing 'unluckiness' make you luckier? + If it has no limit(there shouldn't be any limit of how unlucky/lucky you are as far as I know...), can Spinner store 1000 years of 1x luck in a day? Only way it makes sense is that Spinner should be lucky at the moment when he's storing luck, therefore making himself 'not lucky'(not unlucky). Though I don't know how would that work, would they be able to know if they're lucky or not at the moment? Or do they just turn on storing and start rolling dice, every time it must've been something needed(highest number isn't always lucky) it gives something unneeded but luck gets stored? Edit: Chromium is Spiritual so it may matter how much connected to Spiritual Realm is object. It wouldn't work on humans as much as it would work on things with less spiritual power... Edited September 1, 2012 by 213
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Storing luck makes you unlucky, tapping it makes you lucky, not the other way around. True, you'd be able to find that oasis. But say you wanted somebody to die. Just use a massive burst of luck and either fire a shot in a random direction, or wait for a falling anvil. Luck is simply such an unbeatable, inderect force that it's hard to see how it would work. Edited September 1, 2012 by Observer
Cracknut he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 Storing luck makes you unlucky, tapping it makes you lucky, not the other way around. Yes but first you should be lucky right? You can't store something you don't have and fortune/luck is totally random in every way. I just stated up there that if you could store 'luck' even when you are unlucky it would've worked other way. True, you'd be able to find that oasis. But say you wanted somebody to die. Just use a massive burst of luck and either fire a shot in a random direction, or wait for a falling anvil. Luck is simply such an unbeatable, inderect force that it's hard to see how it would work. Yep, thats true but if chromium works that way it'll ruin whole series. I'm sure there are limits to what Spinners can do with their luck. And one of the limits I came up with is that you need to be lucky when you're storing fortune. Second one is that Spinners affect different things in different ways depending on how much connection those things have with Spiritual Realms.
Aminar Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 Storing luck makes you unlucky, tapping it makes you lucky, not the other way around. True, you'd be able to find that oasis. But say you wanted somebody to die. Just use a massive burst of luck and either fire a shot in a random direction, or wait for a falling anvil. Luck is simply such an unbeatable, inderect force that it's hard see how it would work. I don't think Luck takes direction that well. You're more likely to shoot some random dude threatening a nice lady two block down which causes her to head to the same bar as you and you wind up getting some. Just never store luck when pregnancy might occur.
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) MASSIVELY EPIC IDEA So, what if fortune can only affect the present? You can't go making Shardblades pop out of the toilet because your luck only works in the here and now. You can't find money under a rock (Left there because somebody luckily dropped it) because the luck is only working on the present, meaning nobody in the past could have conveniently dropped it there. Of course, by this same logic you could GET somebody to walk over and drop their wallet (Though I imagine it would take a lot of luck), but that can be countered by saying the spinners have a "luck bubble", an area in which their luck works. Anything outside is unaffected. (There's something else that counters this theory, but, like all my great idea, I lost it moments after I decided to type it) I like the above theory. It makes luck only really good for getting a lucky punch or, if you have yourself a ton of stored luck and time, a few easy coins. Thoughts? Edited September 1, 2012 by Observer
Voidus Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 Not sure about that one Observer, I do agree in the sense that it wouldn't be able to you know retcon the past or anything, so you wouldn't stumble across briefcases full of cash all the time, but if someone had already lost money you would be more likely to find it while tapping luck. Not sure about the 'luck bubble' we haven't really seen any kind of range abilities for feruchemy, I think that because it changes something about you not the world that there wouldn't be a range on what was affected. 1
Aminar Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 I think we should start by looking at Mat Cauthons luck. From there I do agree it only works while on. In fact I kind of always assumed that. IE things only happen while it is kept activated. While storing it should be a bit of a Murphy's law scenario. Ways I see Luck being useful. Activating it and essentially doing things at random. Roll dice or flip coins to decide outcomes. Spin around with your eyes shut and run in the direction you stopped in. Anything you do while burning Luck should spin itself towards going well. Unintended consequences and the like. Storing should be any time you do something little things go wrong. You light a match your fingers get singed. You trip you fall instead of catching yourself etc.
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 I'd better just start storing luck now then, since Murphy's law is in constant application to everything I do anyways. In hindsight the idea of the luck bubble feels a touch farfetched, though still possibly valid. Formulating new ideas... [The Shapeforms are Deliberating...] Bam. Luck is now an internal effect (Instead of external like we originally thought) and instead of being better at locating things and such, you are now simply like a person burning Atium, except in a defensive way, nearly untouchable. Anything you attempt to do directly (ei: get a good coin flip, or (possibly) convince a person) will go much better, but anything involving other people and objects that you aren't directly taking part in will be unaffected.
Cracknut he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Yeah luck should work only in present and affect things after its taped but you still have a chance to find something lost long ago. You don't make that guy lose it. You just find it. Without using chromium someone would lose that item anyway though you wouldn't find it. Luck is random. Maybe Spinners can't control it? Maybe it just affect things randomly with or without Spinners knowledge. Spinner may roll the dice and lose while taping luck even if he wanted to win, because if he won something would've went wrong. Chromium just does whatever in the end is better for Spinner, not what Spinner wants. Imo that would've been most interesting and balanced way to do it. Edited September 1, 2012 by 213
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 It is possible. It is possible. But even being unable to control it doesn't balance it well. Sure, you may not get that massive treasure hoard, but you did get a promotion, etc. Regardless of intent, compounding would still skyrocket you in just about everything. Which is why I like the directness idea.
Cracknut he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 It is possible. It is possible. But even being unable to control it doesn't balance it well. Sure, you may not get that massive treasure hoard, but you did get a promotion, etc. Regardless of intent, compounding would still skyrocket you in just about everything. Which is why I like the directness idea. You get promoted when you tap luck, then you get thrown out when you start storing it. Though I'm still thinking that you just can't have that much of luck stored because you can't store it anytime you want.
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 I'm refering to compounders. But if you locked yourself in some isolated hole while walking in circles doing nothing but store for a few hours, I'm pretty sure you'd be able to pull something like that off.
Aminar Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 Compounding is inherently OP. Compounding anything puts you in a far better position than any normal Allomancer or Feruchemist. (Things like Breath aside.) But most of the time the applications are narrow. Luck can do quite a bit but the more skill involved the less luck matters. There are only so many birds that can block bullets before you get hit. 1
Voidus Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 "There are only so many birds that can block bullets before you get hit. " But then the bullets that ricocheted off of the birds block the other bullets! But seriously, yeah it's useful but because it's difficult to direct you wouldn't rely on it. It's completely unpredictable and there is a limit to how much it could do. In terms of defensive ability it's no more useful than gold compounding, all you need is to get them in an unavoidable situation where no amount of luck can stop them from being hit. In terms of offense, I'm not even sure if it could be used that way, I don't think that you being lucky could cause someone else to be killed by chance, possibly it could incapacitate them in some way but I don't see Shardblades falling from the sky to slaughter your enemies. Mostly I think a Chromium Ferring or compounder would be useful as a support role. 1
Vortaan he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 Tapping luck seems like a big gamble anyway. IF you end up lucky, who says that it's going to work out great for you anyway? I refer you to a Wheel of Time reference where Mat has a wall fall on top of him. Turns out it's lucky since he doesn't have to face an army that would likely have killed him, but... wall. On your head.
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) Tapping luck seems like a big gamble anyway. IF you end up lucky, who says that it's going to work out great for you anyway? I refer you to a Wheel of Time reference where Mat has a wall fall on top of him. Turns out it's lucky since he doesn't have to face an army that would likely have killed him, but... wall. On your head. Totally forgot about that. Melikey. EDIT: Re-read Final Empire, Kelsier specifically states that all Feruchemy is internal. So my theory of WHY U NO ANVIL? is correct EDITEDIT: Wait. We have 2 more trilogies on the way. What are the odds that Feruchemy is all puzzled out by now? Pretty bad. What if it isn't really fortune that's being stored? I mean, how would you know? With strength you can tell because suddenly you have no muscle, with speed you move in slow motion, but luck? They probably just found themselves stubbing their toe on everything and assumed it was luck. What if it's not? Crazy idea. It doesn't work well with storing, but for tapping it might. What if, when tapping luck, it's sort of like Wild Magic in [insert title from my bad memory here]? You cast a spell to find a key, and later that day you help a little girl get her cat out of a tree and it so happens you key is up there too. What if you get lucky simply because, I don't know, you become closer to Harmony and follow some path he sets for you, and a touch of fortune is the byproduct? I'm grasping at straws here, but think what if? What if I'm right, and fortune isn't really fortune? Edited September 3, 2012 by Observer
name_here Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Do note that compounding consumes metal, thus limiting its utility with more exotic metals. But that won't be sufficent by itself.
Aeshdan he/him Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Do note that compounding consumes metal, thus limiting its utility with more exotic metals. But that won't be sufficent by itself. Plus this website(http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/024/index.s7.html) explains that metallic chromnium is one of the rarest substances in the world. Nearly all the chromnium in industry is stored as chromic acid or in use as a few-micron-thick sheen on something.
Observer Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Point. But regardless of how rare, it still leaves things open to abuse, especially once we get to space travel.
Aminar Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Plus this website(http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/024/index.s7.html) explains that metallic chromnium is one of the rarest substances in the world. Nearly all the chromnium in industry is stored as chromic acid or in use as a few-micron-thick sheen on something. Not to mention that's earth proportions. I would guess the proximity to shards enhances the levels of most metals pretty significantly as there is access to almost titanic amounts of metal seen in most of Mistborn. Sazed may actually convert some metals into others depending. 1
Windrunner he/him Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Hmm, what gave you the impression that Scadrial has more metals then Earth?
Observer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Nothing. The only evidence we have is the large amounts of metals present on the market, but that means nothing. There's just more demand, and therefore more supply. Luthadel was set on top of a massive deposite, so it makes sense there'd be a ton of the stuff.
Aminar Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Hmm, what gave you the impression that Scadrial has more metals then Earth? Actually it deals more with the world. Were I writing within Scadrial I know it would have more Metal than Earth, especially the allomantically active ones. It allows for more to play with. I mean they mention in Alloy that Bendalloy is rare and almost as expensive as gold. Given that it has to have at least as much demand as gold(for allomancers) if it were so rare in the environment Bendalloy would be worth significantly more than Gold(especially given that Bismuth is also exceedingly rare and Bendalloy is half Bismuth while only 10% Cadmium(assuming Earth Bendalloy is also Scadrial Bendalloy) The fact they found the metal at all suggests there are greater quantities of allomantic metals on the planet. 1
Observer Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Actually it deals more with the world. Were I writing within Scadrial I know it would have more Metal than Earth, especially the allomantically active ones. It allows for more to play with. I mean they mention in Alloy that Bendalloy is rare and almost as expensive as gold. Given that it has to have at least as much demand as gold(for allomancers) if it were so rare in the environment Bendalloy would be worth significantly more than Gold(especially given that Bismuth is also exceedingly rare and Bendalloy is half Bismuth while only 10% Cadmium(assuming Earth Bendalloy is also Scadrial Bendalloy) The fact they found the metal at all suggests there are greater quantities of allomantic metals on the planet. Unfortunately it's hard not to chalk it all up to Harmony's influence. The letter to Spook indicated that the four remaining metals were meant to be found. It's plausible to say the planet was edited to accomodate that fact.
Recommended Posts