Adolin Dueling Champion

[Titan Arum]

Keep in mind, Desolations, near as we can tell, are already army against army. So far, according to Tanavast, Rayse has lost every single time. Is it possible Honor's had Champions this whole time, i.e., the Heralds, and that this is why he's always won? Perhaps the Champion would simply be one more tool for Odium in addition to his armies, not instead of (see above where I suggest that the Champion's drive might be to "lead Odium's armies"). So, it would be something like an Odium Herald, someone who would fight alongside the Voidbringers the way the Heralds fight alongside humans, helping them win pivotal battles just as the Heralds do.

 

Basically I see a lot of assumptions in this thread, that there's only one possible thing "appoint a Champion" might mean. It's entirely possible I'm wrong and Mr. Sanderson will simply follow the trope this time. It would, in classic Sanderson fashion, be unique for him.

 

Hrm... sidenote. If the Heralds are already the Champions of Honor, and between Desolations they go to Braize to be tortured and broken... is it possible that if Odium chooses a Champion, this person will spend the time between Desolations on Roshar, forced to live among the common people, giving humanity the chance to win him over and convince him to reform and betray Odium on humanity's behalf? Just spitballin' here.

 

Without knowing too much about them, I would argue that Odium's champions, or his Heralds, could be the Unmade. In one of the Listener songs, the Unmade are mentioned as almost god-like. Similar to the Heralds for humans:

 

Words of Radiance: Chapter 31 Epigraph said

Smokeform for hiding and slipping ’tween men.

A form of power-like Surges of spren.

Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies.

Crafted of gods, this form we fear.

By Unmade touch its curse to bear,

Formed from shadow-and death is near. It lies.

-From the Listener Song of Secrets, 51st stanza

[Oudeis]

Yes, but recall that the Unkalaki, who have listener blood, consider every spren, even just flamespren, to be Gods. Doesn't mean they're actually combat-effective.

[N006+ard4life]

Adolin is going to start surgebinding soon. Its obvious if u think about it. Adolin is now the most experienced dueller in Urithiru. He's duelling champion in Urithiru. Dalinar's going to have to give that honor blade to somebody (unless he keeps it for himself which is very unlikely, according to me) and the logical choice is Adolin. I can even imagine the scene. Adolin gets summoned by his father, he thinks he's being arrested for Sadeas' death, instead here, a Honorblade for you......

 

I really hope this happens.

[maxal]

I really hope this happens.

 

I don't. I do think Adolin would refuse the Honorblade if it is ever offered to him, which I think it won't. Of all people, Dalinar is more likely to offer it to Elhokar, providing it is his to give away. Kal would probably not give it to anyone.

 

The Honorblade is not going into Adolin's hands, of that I am quite sure,.

[natc]

I don't. I do think Adolin would refuse the Honorblade if it is ever offered to him, which I think it won't. Of all people, Dalinar is more likely to offer it to Elhokar, providing it is his to give away. Kal would probably not give it to anyone.

The Honorblade is not going into Adolin's hands, of that I am quite sure,.

I don't even remember where Kaladin left the thing, honestly.

[Xaladin]

I don't think being super close to Honor has a lot to do with it. In fact, that might be a disadvantage.

Mistborn Spoiler

Vin wasn't exactly close to Preservation, and this actually gave more of a reason for Preservation to choose her.

[maxal]

I don't even remember where Kaladin left the thing, honestly.

 

I think we do not know. My guess is he left it with Bridge 4. I somehow doubt he gave it to Dalinar, but in the advent he did, he may have gave him the advice not to use it. As I said earlier, providing the Honorblade indeed is with Dalinar (which is unsure), I then foresee Elhokar requesting it for himself, which could be a dangerous thing, but a plausible denouement for the king. Anyway, this is just speculation, not supported by facts.

[AerionBFII]

Regardless where it is currently im guessing there will be attempts to steal it.....not HONORable XD

 

Im personally hoping Kal has bonded it and is just keeping it dismissed but i find it unlikely.

 

(where do bonded shardblades go when they are not being used?)

[Dihatimus]

Kaladin slices off the very tip top of a mountain that was only accessible because he flew(fell) there. Then he lashes the hunk of rock up once so that he can lift it off and let it float there a moment while he carves out a spot for the blade. Then as the lashing runs out the rock sits atop the sword atop a mountain. 

 

No one should have that blade. Not yet, not even Kaladin, in case he gets killed which would give his killer the weapon. 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

 Adolin might need to continue duelling, sure they found the city of the heralds and knights, but they are still facing a war of extinction, so every advantage is needed. Sure the knights are returning, but htey need more than that. Every blade and plate, bolsters their force and denies the enemy assets. If he can challenge for the plates and blades, he can give the men in his army a better chance. THe plates make better soldiers, but each blade is important as each is a potential spren that one day could be restored, and the screams of it, could help find knights.

 Also, the world has to be united, with the threat out there, who better to follow than the side with the most shade plates and blades.

[natc]

Adolin might need to continue duelling, sure they found the city of the heralds and knights, but they are still facing a war of extinction, so every advantage is needed. Sure the knights are returning, but htey need more than that. Every blade and plate, bolsters their force and denies the enemy assets. If he can challenge for the plates and blades, he can give the men in his army a better chance. THe plates make better soldiers, but each blade is important as each is a potential spren that one day could be restored, and the screams of it, could help find knights.

Also, the world has to be united, with the threat out there, who better to follow than the side with the most shade plates and blades.

You act like the other armies have time to actually attack them with those shards while the world is ending.

[dyring]

In a way it would make sense for Dalinar to have it, as he cannot use stormfather as a shardblade, and a honorblade propably wont count as a monstrocity for the stormfather(its not a dead spren).

 

He´d get alot of surges, too.

[natc]

In a way it would make sense for Dalinar to have it, as he cannot use stormfather as a shardblade, and a honorblade propably wont count as a monstrocity for the stormfather(its not a dead spren).

He´d get alot of surges, too.

He'd have 3, actually. He could full lash without help. But st least he can fly.

[dvoraen]

RE: Odium's champion.  Remember that Nightblood is on Roshar, so I think it's very much within the realm of possibility that Nightblood could "kill"/devour/depower the Unmade.  This would be a huge setback to the point of possibly convincing Odium he could lose, especially if his Splinters (the Unmade) are permanently removed from events because Nightblood is a hungry hungry hippo.

Edited April 10, 2015 by dvoraen

[maxal]

 Adolin might need to continue duelling, sure they found the city of the heralds and knights, but they are still facing a war of extinction, so every advantage is needed. Sure the knights are returning, but htey need more than that. Every blade and plate, bolsters their force and denies the enemy assets. If he can challenge for the plates and blades, he can give the men in his army a better chance. THe plates make better soldiers, but each blade is important as each is a potential spren that one day could be restored, and the screams of it, could help find knights.

 Also, the world has to be united, with the threat out there, who better to follow than the side with the most shade plates and blades.

 

Adolin can't duel right now, not with a broken wrist, that is unless Renarin figures out how to heal it early on in SA3. He may be foolish and prideful enough to try to hide the gravity of the injury though and rely on his Plate to compensate which may lead him to the one duel he'll loose.

 

There is also the matter the Radiants now know the truth about the Blades. How will they react? Will Dalinar be comfortable in having men use abominations? Will he try to dispose of all the Blades? The sprens hate the Blades.... How can the Bondsmith push an agenda to harvest more Blades for his army? Pertaining Dalinar, we could also raise the question to how far he is willing to push his dueling son in order to achieve his goals? How did Ialai refer to Adolin back in WoR again? Yeah, a tool. She called him a tool: a tool for Dalinar to make his wishes come true. Sad.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

 The blades would greatly aid the common soldier/fighters, it would simply bolster their fighting force. Also, finding a way to restore them will be a big goal, so easier to do with more blades to examin and experiment.

 I am not simply taking about the blades in the alethi army, but other nations. THe people will follow the knights or those with blades, for security. So if the world is united and all the blades are under one command, it will be a great uniter.

[maxal]

 The blades would greatly aid the common soldier/fighters, it would simply bolster their fighting force. Also, finding a way to restore them will be a big goal, so easier to do with more blades to examin and experiment.

 I am not simply taking about the blades in the alethi army, but other nations. THe people will follow the knights or those with blades, for security. So if the world is united and all the blades are under one command, it will be a great uniter.

 

Except you forget every single Radiant we have met passionately hates every single Shardbearer. Based on this, I do not see the Radiants leading any army of Shardbearers.

 

The Blades will cause conflict. On one side, the sprens will push for the Radiants to get rid of them and on the other Radiants such as Dalinar will see their use. All in all, the sprens will never be happy or at peace when around the dead-Blades.

 

They won't experiment. The Blades are dead. Every single spren is adamant about it. Nothing can be done about them.

 

All in all, Radiants will not all cause good, they will upset the order of things and not always in a good way... The Shards are a needed resources, but the sprens so not agree. Problem.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

They are fighting for survival with limited resources. So until the knight and heralds are restored, or if they ever are, then every blade is critical. Also, it would be a powerplay with other countries, if forced to march against monsters, they would rather have shard wearers being their back up rather then mere mortals.

Spren are forces, so can not truly die. Syl died and was reborn, so it is possible that ll the blades could be restored, so regaining the respect of the spren, so get them back as allies, so encourage more to bond with knights. Each blade represent a knight that could be made, So it wouild be importatnt.

[maxal]

They are fighting for survival with limited resources. So until the knight and heralds are restored, or if they ever are, then every blade is critical. Also, it would be a powerplay with other countries, if forced to march against monsters, they would rather have shard wearers being their back up rather then mere mortals.

Spren are forces, so can not truly die. Syl died and was reborn, so it is possible that ll the blades could be restored, so regaining the respect of the spren, so get them back as allies, so encourage more to bond with knights. Each blade represent a knight that could be made, So it wouild be importatnt.

 

Reviving a Blade is nearly impossible. Depending on the population of Alethkar, the percentages of individual eligible to become a Shardbearer, the orders represented in the current population of Blades, the chances of a compatible wielder with proto-Radiant qualities to end up with the right Blade are slim to none... Something like 0.00001%. 

 

Adolin may be the very extremely rare occurrence. The process to revive a dead-Blade is extremely difficult and complex. Impossible they are going to do it at large.

 

Our crew starting to revive Blades and gain back the conscience of the sprens is highly unlikely to happen. Adolin wil perhaps succeed, but only him. Given Syl's reaction to dead-Blades, I cannot see the Radiants look lightly to the Shardblades anymore, no matter how much of an advantage they are.

 

They will not be making knights out of each and every Blade. I'd wager anything on that.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Wel i still hope that the spren could be restored. Just like the blue people were restored to their true forms in the world of sel. Each blade represents a potetnial future knight radiant.

 Just as the other broken magics in a world can be restored.

 

 I dont believe the mass oath breaking of hte knight was the first time, knight broke their words some how. I bet that before then, occaionally singular knight would break their words, and their spren would end up stuck as a blade. So i bet there was a way to restore them then, so it could be done again.

Edited April 11, 2015 by .S.A.M.K.M

[natc]

We're calling Elantrians blue people now?

I don't think they were even blue tbh. They were metallic silver right?

And reviving Syl was doable. Kaladin was still alive and could take his oaths up again to bring her back. The lost Radiants that created these shardblades died like 4000+ years ago. The blades are largely screwed.

And every known shardblade is accounted for in the human countries save for Eshonai's, and since their enemy is conveniently not among those countries they honestly don't need them all in one place, especially not in a war for survival. Alethkar isn't the only army that needs them; heck, the Kholin army isn't the only one that needs them, there's the dozen or so other armies in Alethkar alone. Concentrating blades in one place is damning every other military force in existence to being completely useless.

[edgedancing]

And reviving Syl was doable. Kaladin was still alive and could take his oaths up again to bring her back. The lost Radiants that created these shardblades died like 4000+ years ago. The blades are largely screwed.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought too -  the dead spren could only be revived by the Radiant that they had the Nahel bond with? Correct me if I'm wrong though. Also remember how the spren react near the Shardblades - they scream to the point where the Radiants can no longer fight.

 

Basically, I think the Shardblades will be largely useless in the fight against Odium.

 

What about Eshonai though? For some reason, I thought that her being the first to take up the Stormform meant that she was Odium's champion? Or am I just speculating total nonsense oops 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

 We know pren can be contained in a gem, so what happens if a shard blade in sealed in a gem.

 The reason why i hope they gather the blades, as the only people that has access to the city, means they potentially have the ability to fight the voidbbringers on a larger scale.

[natc]

As far as accessing Urithiru is concerned there is still no reason to gather the blades in one place since they're about as effective at getting to Urithiru as a bucket of crem.

How on earth do you even propose to shove a huge metal sword into the gem eh?

[Mimiddle04]

Except you forget every single Radiant we have met passionately hates every single Shardbearer. Based on this, I do not see the Radiants leading any army of Shardbearers.

 

 

 

Shallan does not hate shardbearers, Dalinar does not hate Shardbearers, Jasnah and Renarin do not... Most of the "Radiants" even love a Shardbearer or two.  Heck Renarin was a Radiant and a Shardbearer.

 

Kaladin is the only Radiant who hates Shardbearers I can think of.  They all can't hold Shardblades because of the screaming and they are probably a little appalled  by holding a "corpse."  But I don't think that any of them "passionately hate" the Shardbearers, only their weapons.