Long Game 113: The Thaylen City Council

[Mystfall He/Him]

1 minute ago, Jo and the Bush said:

I edited yours in.

That reminds me!

@Hoid Slayer and @Mystfall won the Boons! Hoid for his great Sign-up Post, and Mystfall for his engagement! 24 hours ago, they were given the ability to manipulate the odds for what role they could receive. (either by removing some roles from the pool, or by selecting from a small number of chosen roles). 

@TwinStorm received a Runner-up Boon, simply because I was struggling to choose between Twin and Myst for most Engaging. Twinstorm's boon allows him to choose his starting Loyalty.

*bows* 

I think having more than 20% of the posts in the sign-up thread may have helped 

[Asriel He/Him]

Rbiren gazed at Teej thoughtfully. It was sometimes hard to remember how pragmatic these Thaylens were. No morals - just what kept them alive.
Then again, who was he to be talking?
"Thaylenah must consider the fact that should the alliance lose the Contest of Champions, we will still be safe. The chances of the enemy somehow capturing our entire kingdom are unlikely at best."

Holding to my word (this boon announcement makes him more suspicious anyway) - Mystfall/Fickle

Edit: Grammar

Edited Thursday at 03:23 AM by Asriel

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

@Jo and the Bush can I move to Depose you for not making me elim

Araris Valerian where is the bear

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said:

@Jo and the Bush can I move to Depose you for not making me elim

Araris Valerian where is the bear

If you do it during the night in red text sure. But it will count as a Motion to Depose.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Just now, Jo and the Bush said:

If you do it during the night in red text sure. But it will count as a Motion to Depose.

*weighs pros and cons*

That should be safe at this point in the game, right?

[Mystfall He/Him]

Just now, Hoid Slayer said:

*weighs pros and cons*

That should be safe at this point in the game, right?

Maybe? Idk whether Jo would weight the starting loyalty to positive or negative 

Oh, by the way, I am not a Parliamentarian.

PMs do not rest on my shoulders.

That does not mean you should kill me C1 again though 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

I'm too tired for this right now see you all in the morning

[The Unknown Character he/him]

I'm 100% percent going to move to depose come nighttime unless PMs lead be to believe there's vastly more disloyal players than I expected 

[Wahrheitswächter He/Him]

Ralm looked around in the Room, as his Eyes fell on a Person he had hoped he wouldnt see again any time soon, his old apprentice Essyn. He raised his Voice "My dear friends and colleagues, I know that we need to discuss Odiums offer, but that should not keep us from discussing other points. Because we have a murderer amid our ranks, a murderer who may own an undisclosed Shardblade! My old apprentice Essyn was involved in a multitude of murders on the Reshi Great Shell of Relu-Na and stole during those Events a Shardblade"

Edited Thursday at 04:18 AM by Wahrheitswächter

[Archer he/him]

VC:

Hoid (1): Myst

Myst (1): Asriel

Araris (1): Hoid (poking the bear) 

[Mystfall He/Him]

I’ve never played a 20 player game before, but that makes me want to say with have 5-6 Elims depending on whether they actually have a conversion or not. If they do, I can see an argument for 4, but that’s seems low to me(would depend on what roles people have and whether this is a high-power or low power Distro. The rules themselves seem to lean towards high-power though, so unless the Elims have the most powerful roles, I highly doubt we have 4.

Thats said, Jo had only a few minutes to change things when Alvron signed up. I’m not sure how much he could’ve changed to balance that.

Assuming 5 Elims, and if we have 3 high-guards, that’s a(quickly pulls out a calculator) 56% chance the Elims have at least one high guard.

That’s basically a coin flip. I’m not sure whether we should assume there’s an Elim in the high guards or not.

Better safe than sorry, especially if it’s 55/45

High-guards, be careful in your doc, anything you say could be going straight to the Elim doc, and @Jo and the Bush do you make a new doc every time a high-guard dies?

if not, then future Elim’s who become high-guards will also hav that info

[coco.pudding she/they]

Essyn is panicking. She saw him on the way in, standing off to the side, chatting with a merchant friend of his. She had immediately hidden, ducking behind a group of others. 
How is he here? He’s supposed to be dead. She told everyone he was dead. She was there when he died. But there he is, standing across the room, mingling with the other councilors like nothing happened.

She tried to approach him before the meeting started, once her thoughts were gathered. But it became clear he knew she was there. That he knew everything. And he was avoiding her. And so she waited. Waited for the stormwall to hit, hoping her wits could get her through this.

~~~ 

When Ralm at last speaks up, Essyn looks toward him, plastering a shocked expression onto her face. Then she rushes toward him. 
“Babsk! What—how? How is this possible?” Tears begin to leak from her eyes. “You died. I-I saw you die! I tried to save you. I tried—I couldn’t have—I don’t understand.” She is sobbing now, tears flowing freely as she leans on him, her arms flung around him.

Then she whispers in his ear, quiet enough only he can hear. “I will explain. I promise I will explain. Privately. Meet me in the garden tonight, so we can speak freely.”

Then she steps away from him slightly, turning to face the room, dabbing at her eyes, drawing in a deep breath. “I am not a murderer,” she says, her voice wobbling. “I don’t—I don’t understand what this is about, but I’m sure there’s some explanation, trickery from Odium or some such thing, intended to derail this meeting so we decide in his favor.”

Then she turns to Ralm. “I am sorry I failed you. Words cannot express how happy I am that you are alive, that you are here. I understand that whatever has happened, it has broken your trust in me. But perhaps—perhaps you can trust me again. When we get to the bottom of whatever this is.”

[Mat he/him]

28 minutes ago, The Unknown Character said:

I'm 100% percent going to move to depose come nighttime unless PMs lead be to believe there's vastly more disloyal players than I expected 

Explain to me why this is ever a logical decision to make? Like I dont think you’re evil for this cause it’d be too obvious but from what I remember of the rules there is absolutely no upside, and the only situation that people vote to dispose the Queen is one when the elims do it and out themselves to win

im going to sleep now, I skimmed some stuff and haven’t read the rules in a minute but tomorrow I have more time, good to be back <3.

edit: @Mystfall if I recall correctly the elims have conversion potential so I personally doubt we currently are dealing with five. Someone should check that tho

edit2: @Jo and the Bush did twin choose their starting loyalty before or after receiving their GM PM?

—

Mat sighed, his bones creaking as he made his way back to his quarters. It was getting late (far too late for an old man like him to be up and about) and he could already tell this was a talkative bunch. Best to be well-rested for the discussion tomorrow morning…

Edited Thursday at 04:46 AM by Mat

[Mystfall He/Him]

5 minutes ago, Mat said:

edit: @Mystfall if I recall correctly the elims have conversion potential so I personally doubt we currently are dealing with five. Someone should check that tho

There’s a role for it. There is no guarantee that Jo put the role in though

[Wahrheitswächter He/Him]

@Mat According to the Rules the Deposition Votes will be publicly revealed.

I can see two interpretations of this:

a) we will know who has positive, neutral, or negative Loyalty

b) we will know how many have positive, neutral or negative Loyalty

@Jo and the Bush @Cuendillar please Clarify

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

Explain to me why this is ever a logical decision to make? Like I dont think you’re evil for this cause it’d be too obvious but from what I remember of the rules there is absolutely no upside, and the only situation that people vote to dispose the Queen is one when the elims do it and out themselves to win

im going to sleep now, I skimmed some stuff and haven’t read the rules in a minute but tomorrow I have more time, good to be back <3.

—

Mat sighed, his bones creaking as he made his way back to his quarters. It was getting late (far too late for an old man like him to be up and about) and he could already tell this was a talkative bunch. Best to be well-rested for the discussion tomorrow morning…

It would reveal the number of players with negative starting loyalty, from what I can tell?

Ari scuttled into the council chamber, shoving loose bits of wire and half-infused gemstone chips into her pockets as she took her seat. Crowded room. She put her back to the wall and glanced at the faces around her, clicking tiny mechanisms in her pockets as she did so 

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

There’s a role for it. There is no guarantee that Jo put the role in though

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

@other people: ok so I guess then we can just get an idea of the state of things? Cause rn no one controlled their loyalty (except twin). Is there a role that manipulates loyalty? (If no one answers I’ll just check tomorrow)

[coco.pudding she/they]

Just now, Mat said:

Is there a role that manipulates loyalty?

I believe there’s a few actually

[Mystfall He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

That’s true lol 

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

5 minutes ago, Mat said:

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

@other people: ok so I guess then we can just get an idea of the state of things? Cause rn no one controlled their loyalty (except twin). Is there a role that manipulates loyalty? (If no one answers I’ll just check tomorrow)

Several: Smuggler, Minister, Naval Officer, Royal Something, Mavset-im, and other roles with the potential to affect your / someone else's loyalty

[KeyFox]

Makkib was waiting. Of course he was. He always ensures that no danger lurks in the shadows. He checked behind each and every desk to make sure no one was hiding, he fiddled with the windows to see if anyone had tampered with them, he even peeked under the desks to look to hidden fabrials. There was no danger present in the room.

----------------------

After Teej's announcement, Makkib felt a strange sense of unease. He knew it was probably nothing, as he had cleared the room before anyone had a chance to pull anything sneaky. Yet, something was off. Maybe it was just the lingering feeling of alarm when he had discovered the letter this morning. Maybe it was his loneliness as he still tried to adapt to an unfamiliar culture.

Regardless, something big was about to go down, and Makkib did not want to be on the receiving end of it.

 

21 minutes ago, Ink and Embers said:

It would reveal the number of players with negative starting loyalty, from what I can tell?

That could be valuable

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

1 hour ago, Mystfall said:

 @Jo and the Bush do you make a new doc every time a high-guard dies?

Nope. The Same doc all the way through.

1 hour ago, Mat said:

edit2: @Jo and the Bush did twin choose their starting loyalty before or after receiving their GM PM?

PAFO (For new players, that is an Acronym for Play and Find Out, meaning that I'm not going to reveal that.)

53 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

@Mat According to the Rules the Deposition Votes will be publicly revealed.

I can see two interpretations of this:

a) we will know who has positive, neutral, or negative Loyalty

b) we will know how many have positive, neutral or negative Loyalty

@Jo and the Bush @Cuendillar please Clarify

The general Loyalties of all players will be revealed during Deposition votes.

[Mystfall He/Him]

Alright, did some looking, OoA is as follows:

Spoiler

ORDER OF ACTIONS:

Day Turn

Day Turn begins

Deposition Votes Announced

Parliamentarian Decrees Announced

Royal Detainees Announced

Players cast votes

Royal Pos Action

Rebsk Pos/Neg Actions

Banker Pos Action

Loyalty Self-Targeting Actions

Rebsk Neutral ACtion

Execution Votes Announced

Naval Officer Survives if executed.

Executed Player dies

Royal Neg Action goes into effect

Night Turn

Night Turn Begins

Parliamentarian Decrees Announced

Royal Detainees Announced

Smuggler Actions

Royal Pos Action

Highguard Protects

Minister/Parliamentarian/Bonded Actions 

Motions to Depose recorded

Maveset-im Action

Loyalty Self-Targeting Actions

Highguard and Corrupt Kills happen

Naval Officer survives if Negative Loyalty

Secretary Actions

Royal Neg Action goes into effect

Motion to Depose happens

Basically, all loyalty affecting actions happen before the deposition occurs.

meaning that if we move to depose tonight we’re not going to get starting loyalties, we’re going to get starting loyalties after being affected by actions(both V and E) and I have less confidence in that than I do in Jo’s original loyalty Distro

I’m currently leaning against the idea of doing a depo tonight. I realize that knowing what situation we’re in will help, but I’m not sure if it’s worth the risk if it’s open to player interference.

I realize that it’s not really my decision, one person alone can decide to depose, but unless I get the impression that the large majority of people have positive loyalty, or something changed I don’t think it’s worth the risk of losing this quickly.

 

[Illwei]

2 hours ago, Asriel said:

Rbiren gazed at Teej thoughtfully. It was sometimes hard to remember how pragmatic these Thaylens were. No morals - just what kept them alive.
Then again, who was he to be talking?
"Thaylenah must consider the fact that should the alliance lose the Contest of Champions, we will still be safe. The chances of the enemy somehow capturing our entire kingdom are unlikely at best."

Holding to my word (this boon announcement makes him more suspicious anyway) - Mystfall/Fickle

Edit: Grammar

I'm going to try to be a little less than last game, probabaly won't be so hard since I'm not really one for RP heavy games.

That said, Asriel.

Nothing Particularly Concerning in any sense, but the addition of the "this boon announcement makes him more suspicious" is reminiscent of an Elim feeling like they need to give more justification for an early vote than necessary.

The addition of the boon doesn't imply an Alignment one way or another, and picking from a pool of desired roles doesn't make him any more likely to be one alignment or another.  Straight up I believe it makes him more of a target than not for the Elims, knowing that he had a [minor] choice in what roles he might have gotten. Depending on who is on the Elim team and if they know Myst/Hoid well it could also be used to narrow down what roles they might have gotten. 

Either way the point is that the boon doesn't make him more suspicious for having received it, and this reads more like an attempt to grab something that may be needed if someone chooses to question the vote. 

@The Unknown Character
I suppose Mat already commented on this, but what exactly do you think the benefits are? 

The Cons seem to be that with a potential (read: likely) convert on the Elim team, anyone voting negatively in the deposition is potentially another person who may be converted. While this may seem like it gives info on
 - Who to use abilities on
 - What abilities these players might have at their disposal
 - Who is potentially going to be converted 
I worry that instead it would cause
 - More targeted convert without the Elims having to wait to find people
 - A PoE of people that either the Elims will use to try and kill in for "maybe being converted", or villagers with paranoia moving that way
 - A potential deposition of the Queen on N1 with how the game may have randed. 

While unlikely on the last point, Its still a potential option. Interested in hearing what your thoughts are on why a deposition is good and what info you think you will get out of it. There is incentive [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means those with negative loyalty are not inherently looking to harm the village. (I will note that it seems to only take one voice to move to depose, so I would be aware of your loyalty if you are able to change it.) 

@Mystfall

I would definitely not think 5. I remember a 28 player game I was in, and that one had 6 Elims. Granted, rules have to be taken into account and I'm not quite sure how to do that at the moment. 

The convert is a one-time-use ability basically, and with depositions happening I would doubt it happens later in the game. I would assume 4 currently with the ability to move to 5. There is incentive, as I said before, [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means the ability to convert is most likely easier than not. 

As for the idea of a High Guard being an Elim - I wouldn't think it would be completely random as to where some roles go. Maybe Joe rands it completely, but more likely there's some basis of who goes where. So yes, I would operate under the assumption that there is an Elim in the High Guards. Not to the degree of outing the high guards as a method of finding an Elim at all though, I'm just thinking aloud. 

But yeah, I'd lean more on the 4 side at this point, considering the convert. 

 

As an aside: I do think that Elims are going to change other peoples loyalties, should they have the ability, rather than their own. It's more in their favor to try and lower a Villager who might live longer into the game, or might be seen as untrustworthy for having a lowering loyalty than to risk lowering themselves, getting found, and losing that negative vote. 

------------------------------

Councilor #6 always hated his name. His parents must have been cruel, he had thought, to have given him such a name. Councilor #6.

His younger years were full of teasing from his peers. 'Councilor' they called him. Well, that was his name, of course. But the way they said it - as if it was his name - that part always got to him. 

His mother always said that when he was older he would understand. That names are more than just names. They were your future, they were your past, if you wanna get with me, better make it- wait no, that part wasn't his mother. Anyways, he didn't ever believe her. At least not until recently...

------------------------------

[Mystfall He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I would definitely not think 5. I remember a 28 player game I was in, and that one had 6 Elims. Granted, rules have to be taken into account and I'm not quite sure how to do that at the moment. 

The convert is a one-time-use ability basically, and with depositions happening I would doubt it happens later in the game. I would assume 4 currently with the ability to move to 5. There is incentive, as I said before, [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means the ability to convert is most likely easier than not. 

As for the idea of a High Guard being an Elim - I wouldn't think it would be completely random as to where some roles go. Maybe Joe rands it completely, but more likely there's some basis of who goes where. So yes, I would operate under the assumption that there is an Elim in the High Guards. Not to the degree of outing the high guards as a method of finding an Elim at all though, I'm just thinking aloud. 

But yeah, I'd lean more on the 4 side at this point, considering the convert. 

 

I’ve had people in PMs tell me similar, and while I personally think 6/28 is rather small, I also haven’t ever GMed.

As for the high-guards, i pretty much agree.

I don’t think revealing them is a good idea, maybe later if we’re absolutely sure there’s an Elim. But that’s a maybe. That said since Jo isn’t making a new doc, even if there isn’t an Elim now, there probably will later, so any high guards need to absolutely be cautious in what they saw and whether they reveal identities or not.

As for the Randomness thing of the high-guards, I know my role was random, and I got to influence that, so I don’t see why he’d treat the High-guards differently.