To protect a Dawnshard

[Frustration]

No wall is unbreachable, no watch omniscient, no defense is perfect, every Achilleas has a heel. We're still going to try.

Taking a spin off of the "To kill a [Blank]" threads, instead we have a different objective.

 

You have a Dawnshard and must protect it from anyone who would seek to abuse it.

A few rules

1. You do not know if anyone has a Connection allowing them to track the Dawnshard, you may make assumptions at your own peril
2. You cannot trust any existing organizations with it, they must be assumed to want it for their own ends
3. We will assume you have access to vast resources and can reasonably acquire most any materials you want.
4. You may use the Dawnshard to create its hiding place, but cannot store it with anyone who could use its power. You must prevent anyone from abusing the Dawnshard, including yourself.

How would you protect it?

[Qianweilian He/him]

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Taking a spin off of the "To kill a [Blank]" threads, instead we have a different objective.

How interesting… Here we go again.

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You have a Dawnshard and must protect it from anyone who would seek to abuse it.

A few rules

1. You do not know if anyone has a Connection allowing them to track the Dawnshard, you may make assumptions at your own peril
2. You cannot trust any existing organizations with it, they must be assumed to want it for their own ends
3. We will assume you have access to vast resources and can reasonably acquire most any materials you want.
4. You may use the Dawnshard to create its hiding place, but cannot store it with anyone who could use its power. You must prevent anyone from abusing the Dawnshard, including yourself.

How would you protect it?

Given that I cannot trust any existing organizations, I’m going to be unlikely to have that much in the way of invested allies, other than maybe some rogue Metalborn. I doubt founding an organization is a great idea, as I won’t be able to oversee it forever, it might help the hiding place stay alive, and it opens the possibility for abuse in the future. As a result, I think the best approach is how the One Ring was lost. It is hidden in an extremely inconvenient place to access and everyone who knows about it has either forgotten or died.

I’m assuming I can’t just pay a random villager to take it and then shove them into the Emberdark...

At first I thought of hiding it on Threnody, but the existence of the Night Brigade makes this, put mildly, an abysmal idea, unless you can hide it incredibly well. I don’t really want to put it on Taldain or Nalthis, as they have some form of border control. Roshar and Scadrial are out for obvious reasons. The Selish CR might be interesting, but people can clearly access it in some way, there is a compelling interest to access it, and I don’t know what a Dawnshard would do next to all the Dor. Komashi’s out for a similar reason as Sel.

I’ll found a protection organization of sorts on Northern Scadrial. Essentially nothing more than a couple of Metalborn and gunmen, and then set up a trust (so it can be tracked) to pay them to guard where the Bands of Mourning used to be, and I’ll even let them recruit personnel. I’ll tell them almost everything about the Dawnshard and its capabilities. After a couple of years, I’ll go to Sel and set up another organization.

Unknown to them, I’ve already taken control of a pirate crew on Lumar and kidnapped a poor old villager with no one to remember him. I’ll pay this villager to take the Dawnshard, and then trap him in a steel safe, which will be dumped at the bottom of the Midnight Sea. I’ll then use a hired Elsecaller to transport back to the CR after killing the rest of the crew and sinking the ship. I’ll then kill the Elsecaller and spren with an anti-Stormlight dagger.

I’ll then retire in the Roughs, knowing that the Dawnshard will never be found.

Edited March 23 by Qianweilian

[Argenti he/him]

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No wall is unbreachable, no watch omniscient, no defense is perfect, every Achilleas has a heel. We're still going to try.

Taking a spin off of the "To kill a [Blank]" threads, instead we have a different objective.

 

You have a Dawnshard and must protect it from anyone who would seek to abuse it.

A few rules

1. You do not know if anyone has a Connection allowing them to track the Dawnshard, you may make assumptions at your own peril
2. You cannot trust any existing organizations with it, they must be assumed to want it for their own ends
3. We will assume you have access to vast resources and can reasonably acquire most any materials you want.
4. You may use the Dawnshard to create its hiding place, but cannot store it with anyone who could use its power. You must prevent anyone from abusing the Dawnshard, including yourself.

How would you protect it?

When is this? Before or after the evil destroyed Threnody?

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Argenti said:

When is this? Before or after the evil destroyed Threnody?

Take your pick

9 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

How interesting… Here we go again.

Given that I cannot trust any existing organizations, I’m going to be unlikely to have that much in the way of invested allies, other than maybe some rogue Metalborn. I doubt founding an organization is a great idea, as I won’t be able to oversee it forever, it might help the hiding place stay alive, and it opens the possibility for abuse in the future. As a result, I think the best approach is how the One Ring was lost. It is hidden in an extremely inconvenient place to access and everyone who knows about it has either forgotten or died.

I’m assuming I can’t just pay a random villager to take it and then shove them into the Emberdark...

At first I thought of hiding it on Threnody, but the existence of the Night Brigade makes this, put mildly, an abysmal idea, unless you can hide it incredibly well. I don’t really want to put it on Taldain or Nalthis, as they have some form of border control. Roshar and Scadrial are out for obvious reasons. The Selish CR might be interesting, but people can clearly access it in some way, there is a compelling interest to access it, and I don’t know what a Dawnshard would do next to all the Dor. Komashi’s out for a similar reason as Sel.

I’ll found a protection organization of sorts on Northern Scadrial. Essentially nothing more than a couple of Metalborn and gunmen, and then set up a trust (so it can be tracked) to pay them to guard where the Bands of Mourning used to be, and I’ll even let them recruit personnel. I’ll tell them almost everything about the Dawnshard and its capabilities. After a couple of years, I’ll go to Sel and set up another organization.

Unknown to them, I’ve already taken control of a pirate crew on Lumar and kidnapped a poor old villager with no one to remember him. I’ll pay this villager to take the Dawnshard, and then trap him in a steel safe, which will be dumped at the bottom of the Midnight Sea. I’ll then use a hired Elsecaller to transport back to the CR after killing the rest of the crew and sinking the ship. I’ll then kill the Elsecaller and spren with an anti-Stormlight dagger.

I’ll then retire in the Roughs, knowing that the Dawnshard will never be found.

I was expecting lighthearted fun about burying Dawnshards on asteroids or something, but the first one happens to be murder.

Okay.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

36 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

How interesting… Here we go again.

Given that I cannot trust any existing organizations, I’m going to be unlikely to have that much in the way of invested allies, other than maybe some rogue Metalborn. I doubt founding an organization is a great idea, as I won’t be able to oversee it forever, it might help the hiding place stay alive, and it opens the possibility for abuse in the future. As a result, I think the best approach is how the One Ring was lost. It is hidden in an extremely inconvenient place to access and everyone who knows about it has either forgotten or died.

I’m assuming I can’t just pay a random villager to take it and then shove them into the Emberdark...

At first I thought of hiding it on Threnody, but the existence of the Night Brigade makes this, put mildly, an abysmal idea, unless you can hide it incredibly well. I don’t really want to put it on Taldain or Nalthis, as they have some form of border control. Roshar and Scadrial are out for obvious reasons. The Selish CR might be interesting, but people can clearly access it in some way, there is a compelling interest to access it, and I don’t know what a Dawnshard would do next to all the Dor. Komashi’s out for a similar reason as Sel.

I’ll found a protection organization of sorts on Northern Scadrial. Essentially nothing more than a couple of Metalborn and gunmen, and then set up a trust (so it can be tracked) to pay them to guard where the Bands of Mourning used to be, and I’ll even let them recruit personnel. I’ll tell them almost everything about the Dawnshard and its capabilities. After a couple of years, I’ll go to Sel and set up another organization.

Unknown to them, I’ve already taken control of a pirate crew on Lumar and kidnapped a poor old villager with no one to remember him. I’ll pay this villager to take the Dawnshard, and then trap him in a steel safe, which will be dumped at the bottom of the Midnight Sea. I’ll then use a hired Elsecaller to transport back to the CR after killing the rest of the crew and sinking the ship. I’ll then kill the Elsecaller and spren with an anti-Stormlight dagger.

I’ll then retire in the Roughs, knowing that the Dawnshard will never be found.

Wouldn't an aluminum safe be better?

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

Wouldn't an aluminum safe be better?

I could punch through your aluminum safe with a brick, probably. There's a reason why safes aren't made of aluminium

[Qianweilian He/him]

12 minutes ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

Wouldn't an aluminum safe be better?

You could cover it with aluminum. By “steel,” I was thinking strong metal that could survive the pressure at the bottom of the ocean.

[Argenti he/him]

43 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Take your pick

54 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

Take your dawnshard, put it in a rock (idk why everyone is killing people you can put it in inanimate objects), put the rock in a box made of aluminum. Put that box in a box made of silver, then another layer of aluminum then one made of an awakened steelmind which you link up to a Transportation fabrial with the Command "Flee if attacked". obviously with enough purified dor to do that a couple times. Cover that whole thing in another thick layer of aluminum, fly right into the knell, and throw it out your ship, leave, knowing the Nephelim won't attack it, and anyone stupid enough to get close will get obliterated. 

I assume aluminum has the same effect on anti investiture as it does normal stuff. If not.... well, the Nephelium can't use it anyway.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

1 hour ago, Aeoryi said:

I could punch through your aluminum safe with a brick, probably. There's a reason why safes aren't made of aluminium

Not if it's thick enough.

[Qianweilian He/him]

12 hours ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

Not if it's thick enough.

I’d be worried that you’d end up with the safe losing integrity underneath the spore sea (although I have no idea how heavy spores are). On second thought, you could probably fill the safe with water if it is watertight, resulting in opening the safe being extremely hazardous.

14 hours ago, Argenti said:

put it in a rock (idk why everyone is killing people you can put it in inanimate objects)

Yeah, uh. Good point. I would just chuck an invested rock into the aforementioned safe, but do we actually know how to do this? We only saw Change in a painting, but I don’t know if you can just put it in a random rock.

14 hours ago, Argenti said:

put the rock in a box made of aluminum. Put that box in a box made of silver, then another layer of aluminum then one made of an awakened steelmind which you link up to a Transportation fabrial with the Command "Flee if attacked". obviously with enough purified dor to do that a couple times. Cover that whole thing in another thick layer of aluminum

Solid, but I wonder if the aluminum might block the Transportation, as you can’t summon a Shardblade in an aluminum room.

14 hours ago, Argenti said:

fly right into the knell, and throw it out your ship, leave, knowing the Nephelim won't attack it, and anyone stupid enough to get close will get obliterated. 

That's bold, but I’m really worried what could happen if the Evil got a Dawnshard. They might attack each other (how do you know they wouldn’t?), or the Dawnshard might amplify the Evil in a really scary way. It’s true, no one is going to get close, except for maybe the Night Brigade. Considering how the Night Brigade probably has access to the areas near Threnody, this sounds dangerous. If you can fly in there, drop it, and leave, then someone else might be able to fly in there, grab it, and leave. There’s also a compelling interest for everyone to find out how to defeat the Evil, which directly mitigates most of the protection.

[Returned he/him]

I'm skeptical that there exist reliable, long-term solutions to the problem. I like @Argenti's approach, but I'd modify it slightly. I'd send the whole apparatus into space, moving at an extremely high velocity and in a huge orbit, to places physically far from anywhere that people live. Because it's so small and uncomplicated it won't give off much physical signature that people can use to find or track it, and being far from masses of cognition that let people cheat physical distances means that people have to get to it the normal way, which can be hard in space and at high velocities. An Awakened metalmind is a good idea. I like one that could dynamically shift mass around the structure to allow for changes in orbit without giving off much signal, though getting it to make good decisions about course changes may not be possible without a substantially more complicated setup.

Otherwise I might just launch it into a star, black hole, or large gas giant. The Dawnshard can probably handle that, but a seeker would have a hard time retrieving it. My impression of Dawnshards is that they are primarily Spiritual, heavily constrained/shaped by a Cognitive manifestation (like how spren are primarily Cognitive but have Physical representations), and corporealized in a Physical object, for lack of a better term. Obscuring the physical piece seems like the best core approach, and using the vastness of space along with relative velocities seems at least as good to me as any other effort. No effort will ever be unbeatable.

Edited March 24 by Returned

[Argenti he/him]

7 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

Yeah, uh. Good point. I would just chuck an invested rock into the aforementioned safe, but do we actually know how to do this? We only saw Change in a painting, but I don’t know if you can just put it in a random rock.

 I can awaken the rock if it helps.

7 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

Solid, but I wonder if the aluminum might block the Transportation, as you can’t summon a Shardblade in an aluminum room.

Almost certainly will: and the steel mind can't sense beyond. But that's by design. Someone gets past the evil, grabs the thing, cracks it open, and BOOM! The whole thing vanishes/ flies away.

7 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

That's bold, but I’m really worried what could happen if the Evil got a Dawnshard. They might attack each other (how do you know they wouldn’t?), or the Dawnshard might amplify the Evil in a really scary way. It’s true, no one is going to get close, except for maybe the Night Brigade. Considering how the Night Brigade probably has access to the areas near Threnody, this sounds dangerous. If you can fly in there, drop it, and leave, then someone else might be able to fly in there, grab it, and leave. There’s also a compelling interest for everyone to find out how to defeat the Evil, which directly mitigates most of the protection.

Nephelim can't use it. It's investiture, and they're anti investiture. One or both of them is getting anhilated.

Hiding it under the night brigades noses seems like a good idea, last place they'll look and all that. plus, who ever said you need to get out of there alive?

I think there's compelling intrest to defeat the evil anyways, idk if this would change it much 

[Qianweilian He/him]

26 minutes ago, Argenti said:

I think there's compelling intrest to defeat the evil anyways, idk if this would change it much 

What I mean by that is that people will want to poke around, figure out what happened, attempt to destroy the Evil. If this is successful, then you’ve hidden the Dawnshard at a place literally anyone can reach. It might be found accidentally.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

22 hours ago, Argenti said:

it in a rock (idk why everyone is killing people you can put it in inanimate objects), put the rock in a box made of aluminum.

If you can put it in inanimant objects, get a tiny object with low mass, surround it with low-mass metal, then with aluminum, then have a Windrunner lash it down through the Emberdark. If I remember right, the Emberdark liquid has almost no friction, so 100× lashing will make it accelerate at 1000 m/s2, and given enough Stormlight, this object could reach speeds of up to or even exceeding 10 km/s. In other words, too fast. (I'm assuming a 20 gram object is Earth-like gravity, which is realistic).

And—again, if I remember right— it will just fall forever, which means that one day later, it will be almost a million kilometers down.

Then kill the Radiant and Spren.

[Qianweilian He/him]

18 hours ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

Then kill the Radiant and Spren.

As is tradition.

18 hours ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

have a Windrunner lash it down through the Emberdark.

I don’t believe that would work. Lashing it would require investing the rock, which would make the rock float. Also, I suspect the Dawnshard would also have the rock float, even if it’s covered by aluminum.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

1 hour ago, Qianweilian said:

As is tradition.

I don’t believe that would work. Lashing it would require investing the rock, which would make the rock float. Also, I suspect the Dawnshard would also have the rock float, even if it’s covered by aluminum.

But would Lashing it make it float? 

IotE spoilers

Spoiler

Starling thinks that she would fall until dragons came and rescued her and she is HEAVILY invested. I think the only things that would float would be things like the dawnshard (maybe) that come from a shard or sharpool. so I don't think so about the lashing, and yes to the rock. But the aluminum might suffice... We need like an arcanist in here

 

[Argenti he/him]

2 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

But would Lashing it make it float? 

IotE spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Starling thinks that she would fall until dragons came and rescued her and she is HEAVILY invested. I think the only things that would float would be things like the dawnshard (maybe) that come from a shard or sharpool. so I don't think so about the lashing, and yes to the rock. But the aluminum might suffice... We need like an arcanist in here

 

I think any kinetic investiture would make it float, (which lashing are) while innate investiture wouldn't.

A dawnshard probably would, but aluminum should be able to as well.

Put it in nearby the well of control?

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

4 minutes ago, Argenti said:

I think any kinetic investiture would make it float, (which lashing are) while innate investiture wouldn't.

A dawnshard probably would, but aluminum should be able to as well.

Put it in nearby the well of control?

is the worm juice kinetic then? also, if starling tried to use her powers, would the bands suppressing them make her float?

[Frustration]

There's only so much I can do to actually protect the Dawnshard, someone determined enough will manage to get through eventually. So I have to instead convince everyone that it isn't worth the effort to find.

Assuming that Connection tracking only takes you to the next location of the Dawnshard I will place the Dawnshard in several placeholders which I will distinguish by the labels 1-6 based on the order I put the Dawnshard in them.

I will put placeholder 1 inside the shell of a Tai-na Greatshell, the idea being that it's large, mobile, and more than capable of defending itself. Additionally they have powerful spren that will serve as decoys.

Placeholder 2 I'm taking to a small planet with next to no native investiture. Preferably one that isn't habitable. Then I'll put placeholder 2 there guarded by a dragonsteel vault.

Next I'm taking a Eelakin navigator out into the emberdark, hoping to find a useless chunk of rock in the middle of nothing. I'm going to surround this one with the metal the fourth moon was made of that protected it even from the eyes of shards. Placeholder 3 will be made from plaster, and will something will visibly glow underneath. If they aren't careful they will break the gemstone and release the Entity I trapped inside.

Placeholder 4 will be put just underneath placeholder 1 in such a way as to make it appear to just be placeholder 1 but also deep enough that it won't accidentally be found. Placeholders 5-6 are the same for placeholders 2 and 3. Placeholder 6 has the dawnshard and is in a hidden compartment under the gemstone I trapped the Entity in.

[Qianweilian He/him]

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There's only so much I can do to actually protect the Dawnshard, someone determined enough will manage to get through eventually. So I have to instead convince everyone that it isn't worth the effort to find.

I think that is the true best answer. Hide it somewhere extremely inconvenient to reach and hope everyone forgets about it.

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

2 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

is the worm juice kinetic then?

When the worm juice was in a jar, it sank. It was only when an object was coated that it worked. No idea how to categorize that.

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

If they aren't careful they will break the gemstone and release the Entity I trapped inside.

Can an Entity be trapped that way? BAM was trapped I guess, but it is just so large that it seems iffy. But also, why stop at one in one location?

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Assuming that Connection tracking only takes you to the next location of the Dawnshard I will place the Dawnshard in several placeholders which I will distinguish by the labels 1-6 based on the order I put the Dawnshard in them.

What if they are right next to the Dawnshard, and the next location is in the other direction? Wouldn't they have the ability to tell if a large source of Investiture is nearby.

[Argenti he/him]

56 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

is the worm juice kinetic then? also, if starling tried to use her powers, would the bands suppressing them make her float?

When applied to something, yeah!

7 minutes ago, Through The Living Grub said:

When the worm juice was in a jar, it sank. It was only when an object was coated that it worked. No idea how to categorize that.

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

It needs to be touching the emberdark.

[Frustration]

37 minutes ago, Through The Living Grub said:

Can an Entity be trapped that way? BAM was trapped I guess, but it is just so large that it seems iffy.

The unmade can be trapped that way, including BAM who was by far the largest of them. It might require a particularly large gem but it should work.

38 minutes ago, Through The Living Grub said:

But also, why stop at one in one location?

1. I want the Tai-na alive
2. I don't think they would be dangerous in the physical realm
3. I don't want to kill innocent people if they are
4. Makes it more surprising when they do release it

39 minutes ago, Through The Living Grub said:

What if they are right next to the Dawnshard, and the next location is in the other direction? Wouldn't they have the ability to tell if a large source of Investiture is nearby.

That's why I have the fourth moon "you don't sense investiture here" metal

[Argenti he/him]

46 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's why I have the fourth moon "you don't sense investiture here" metal

That might have some weird results for the dawnshard.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

On 3/24/2026 at 5:48 AM, Frustration said:

No wall is unbreachable, no watch omniscient, no defense is perfect, every Achilleas has a heel. We're still going to try.

Taking a spin off of the "To kill a [Blank]" threads, instead we have a different objective.

 

You have a Dawnshard and must protect it from anyone who would seek to abuse it.

A few rules

1. You do not know if anyone has a Connection allowing them to track the Dawnshard, you may make assumptions at your own peril
2. You cannot trust any existing organizations with it, they must be assumed to want it for their own ends
3. We will assume you have access to vast resources and can reasonably acquire most any materials you want.
4. You may use the Dawnshard to create its hiding place, but cannot store it with anyone who could use its power. You must prevent anyone from abusing the Dawnshard, including yourself.

How would you protect it?

Vast resources hmm? I'm going to assume that includes one of those FTL Ships from Scadrial or Roshar. I'll use that ship to try and leave the Cosmere entirely and try to leave the Dawnshard forever floating either in the endless void of space between the Cosmere and the rest of the Unknowable universe it resides in, or try to find a black hole and toss it in.

If that proves impossible, which it might since the Dawnshard is was used to make the Cosmere and is Connected to 'All Places' which could mean 'All Places in the Cosmere'. Then again the Dawnshards predate the Cosmere since Adonalsium used the former to make the latter so who knows? If they can't be taken out of the Cosmere then I'll try and find the furthest star system that has as little Investiture as possible along with no Shard or Perpendicularity nearby, then dunk the Dawnshard into that Star System's sun and hope for the best.

Though that might lead to the Dawnshard merging with the sun, which might not end well and make it accessible to any curious Shard that does find it, which probably would not be good.