Frustration reads Wind and Truth part 2: A flawed masterpiece, and a disturbing trend

[Frustration]

Okay I've thought a lot about this one. I remember after RoW that a lot of people had some negative opinions about it, but I don't think I've ever seen as much backlash for a Brandon Sanderson book as this one.

What I liked:

Spoiler

Taln

The treatment of Honor and the Shards of Adonalsium generally. Very nice descriptions of their powers, also Perpendicularities

Dalinar's use of the Sunmakers gambit was incredible, a move of such depth I don't think any of us saw it coming. It was beautiful.

Taln

More of the Thunderclasts and the Unmade

El

Moash actually being something of a threat

Taln

The mysteries of both Mishram and Ishar

This is the first book where I actually don't have any complaints about Shallan.

Dawnshard lore

Did I mention Taln?

Backstory worldbuilding for Roshar, Wind, Heralds

This was perhaps the largest leap forward this series has taken since WoR. Epic in scale and finally it feels like things are starting to move after OB, lore is coming every bit as fast as it did in RoW, and characters are finally reaching what we've been building towards since 2010. So why do so many people have problems with it?

 

What I did not like:

Spoiler

Not getting to see the Taln fight

The whole Rlain/Renarin thing, like I know hormones are a thing and all, but you're in a life and death race for Mishram, it's not that hard to set your feelings to the side and focus on what needs done because it needs done for a time.

The Contest of Champions. We built up for four entire books towards this objective and it's just such a letdown. Odium just straight up freezing Gavilnor in place was just rubbing salt in the wound. We were promised an epic fight and we didn't even get a satisfactory one. At least Gavilnor was 20 instead of 5 so it wasn't as dumb as it could have been but it still sucks.

Kaladin and Szeth was such an awesome plot line but it felt so disconnected from the main plot that it felt off. Brandon should have leaned more into the: Find Ishar to help Dalinar angle.

The complete lack of stakes. Dalinar dies, and Adolin loses his leg, but other than that... there's not a lot. Odium got handed a massive victory and the heros walk away almost unscathed. Alethkar and Azimir in Coalition hands. It was rather disappointing.

The worst problems of all however were the continuity errors.

In the Sunlit man Nomad thinks about how the spren in his armor come from both his first set of ideals. However in WaT he doesn't swear the fourth ideal for Windrunners. I

It's established multiple times in the books that you can lock oathgates, however in WaT the coalition has access to an Oathgate that enemy forces will push through and they don't lock it. Now it's possible that the corruption could be the cause of this but that should have been mentioned in the book.

The largest one of them all however, and the one that honestly bothers me the most is that Dalinar released Odium from their agreement. Retribution does not have to give the coalition anything, nor does he have to honor their boundaries. He can simply claim their lands as his own, because the former agreement doesn't hold anymore. So why would he give them their own lands and territory? Why not just take everything like he wanted? I could understand if he just left Urithiru because the protections would prevent him from invading, but Azimir and Narak should be covered and taken.

As you can see the dislikes form a rather long list. Now why is this? Brandon is clearly capable of writing excellent novels, so what's happening?

Well I think the answer actually goes back to RoW, and all the books that come after it.

RoW is the first book of Brandon's where I began to notice some weaknesses, Navani felt off, the one liners didn't land right, the foreshadowing didn't work just right. Nothing was terrible don't get me wrong, but it just felt slightly off, a 60% after consistent and reliable 90s.

Going into TLM things didn't change Marasi suffered from the same problems as Navani, a few plot holes began to appear and just in general felt off. Not terrible, but off.

Then came the secret projects and everything mostly went back to the old Brandon, except for the last one. The Sunlit Man, which once again suffered from the same offness.

Then came Wind and Truth, which more than any of the others suffered greatly from this problem. More strange contrivances in the plot than ever before, more problems, every single character felt at least slightly off, except for once Shallan. The language and word choice were just out there in ways they never had been before, even for Brandon's writing.

 

The answer to all of this I believe is simple: editing time. Brandon has been saying for a while that his books are getting forced out as fast as he can write them. Part of that means that some things don't get quite the polish that they probably should. I think this is where the problems started, and why for the most part they don't appear in the Secret novels as they were published by Brandon on his own time, with the exception of The Sunlit Man, which had to such to meet the deadline at the end of 2023 

It's been noted how far out the publication date for Ghostbloods is: 2028, part of the reason being that Brandon wanted the entire series in hand to revise together before publication.

Here's hoping that the problems will disappear with this plan, and that everything works together again.

[Usseewa]

29 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Did I mention Taln?

What did you like so much about him in this book? The whole fight thing?

30 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Backstory worldbuilding for Roshar, Wind, Heralds

Yeah, I might have to re-read for all that to properly sink in.

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

This is the first book where I actually don't have any complaints about Shallan.

Unpopular opinion but she's actually my favorite character. Although I loved Navani (and her working with Raboniel) in RoW.

33 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Not getting to see the Taln fight

Maybe it was to avoid Herald-ability-related spoilers? Although it is kind of a bummer.

34 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The whole Rlain/Renarin thing

Wasn't it important for the whole Singer-human relationship and Mishram seeing that? I forget.

34 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The Contest of Champions. ...it's just such a letdown. We were promised an epic fight and we didn't even get a satisfactory one.

I agree with you. It was kinda lame, wasn't it? Not even a real Contest of "Champions."

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

in WaT the coalition has access to an Oathgate that enemy forces will push through and they don't lock it.

Which one was that again?

About the editing, I agree. I read some stuff about this as well, and I think Brandon said what you said about GB and the time gap.

I don't have much else to say, at least at the moment.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Alethkar and Azimir in Coalition hands.

Just Azir, unless you're talking about the Alethi living in Urithiru.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

In the Sunlit man Nomad thinks about how the spren in his armor come from both his first set of ideals. However in WaT he doesn't swear the fourth ideal for Windrunners.

He thought about how some of them came from his first set of ideals, not all of them. Given that Kaladin was seeing the Windspren that would become his Platespren throughout OB, well before he said the Fourth ideal, I would say that's not necessarily a continuity error. Still doesn't make a ton of sense, but his Plate being summoned was a rather unusual circumstance, so I'll forgive it.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

It's established multiple times in the books that you can lock oathgates, however in WaT the coalition has access to an Oathgate that enemy forces will push through and they don't lock it. Now it's possible that the corruption could be the cause of this but that should have been mentioned in the book.

The Oathgate spren said they would let the enemy through, which I took that to mean they couldn't lock the gate. But you're right that it could have been mentioned in the meeting that the locking mechanism had stopped working. Seems like something Jasnah at least would have checked.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Spoiler

The largest one of them all however, and the one that honestly bothers me the most is that Dalinar released Odium from their agreement. Retribution does not have to give the coalition anything, nor does he have to honor their boundaries. He can simply claim their lands as his own, because the former agreement doesn't hold anymore. So why would he give them their own lands and territory? Why not just take everything like he wanted? I could understand if he just left Urithiru because the protections would prevent him from invading, but Azimir and Narak should be covered and taken.

That was explained in-book as Taravangian keeping the Shard of Honor happy with him. An indication of its growing sentience, I would say, in that it wanted Taravangian to keep his side of the bargain even though he was under no obligation to do so.

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

As you can see the dislikes form a rather long list. Now why is this? Brandon is clearly capable of writing excellent novels, so what's happening?

Well I think the answer actually goes back to RoW, and all the books that come after it.

RoW is the first book of Brandon's where I began to notice some weaknesses, Navani felt off, the one liners didn't land right, the foreshadowing didn't work just right. Nothing was terrible don't get me wrong, but it just felt slightly off, a 60% after consistent and reliable 90s.

Going into TLM things didn't change Marasi suffered from the same problems as Navani, a few plot holes began to appear and just in general felt off. Not terrible, but off.

Then came the secret projects and everything mostly went back to the old Brandon, except for the last one. The Sunlit Man, which once again suffered from the same offness.

Then came Wind and Truth, which more than any of the others suffered greatly from this problem. More strange contrivances in the plot than ever before, more problems, every single character felt at least slightly off, except for once Shallan. The language and word choice were just out there in ways they never had been before, even for Brandon's writing.

 

The answer to all of this I believe is simple: editing time. Brandon has been saying for a while that his books are getting forced out as fast as he can write them. Part of that means that some things don't get quite the polish that they probably should. I think this is where the problems started, and why for the most part they don't appear in the Secret novels as they were published by Brandon on his own time, with the exception of The Sunlit Man, which had to such to meet the deadline at the end of 2023 

It's been noted how far out the publication date for Ghostbloods is: 2028, part of the reason being that Brandon wanted the entire series in hand to revise together before publication.

Here's hoping that the problems will disappear with this plan, and that everything works together again.

I agree with this. As much as I love Brandon's books, and as much as RoW was one of my favorite of the series, WaT could've used more editing time. WaT was good, but a few more revisions would've made it a much, much better book. The real-world language in particular felt very off, something I'm hoping Brandon corrects, especially with Lift moving into a more prominent role in the second half. Here's hoping Ghostbloods works well, and that the long break from Stormlight will help Brandon to correct these issues.

[Usseewa]

10 minutes ago, NameIess said:

The real-world language in particular felt very off

Oh, I totally agree here. I really hope Brandon gets more editing next time. Do you think he could release and updated/more edited version of WaT (something I believe was discussed by someone already).

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Theory said:

What did you like so much about him in this book? The whole fight thing?

Honestly everything from seeing the trail of destruction in his wake, to him being chosen as a Herald to apparently him trying to kill Cultivation.

1 hour ago, Theory said:

Wasn't it important for the whole Singer-human relationship and Mishram seeing that? I forget.

Tangentially, but they can still work together without the 20+ page romance sub-plot, which just tonally and pacing wise felt so off.

1 hour ago, Theory said:

Which one was that again?

The Azimir oathgate

7 minutes ago, NameIess said:

Just Azir, unless you're talking about the Alethi living in Urithiru.

Ack, sorry Shattered Plains.

8 minutes ago, NameIess said:

That was explained in-book as Taravangian keeping the Shard of Honor happy with him. An indication of its growing sentience, I would say, in that it wanted Taravangian to keep his side of the bargain even though he was under no obligation to do so.

Really?

Oh please tell me it's there, I'll go look in a second.

12 minutes ago, NameIess said:

I agree with this. As much as I love Brandon's books, and as much as RoW was one of my favorite of the series, WaT could've used more editing time. WaT was good, but a few more revisions would've made it a much, much better book. The real-world language in particular felt very off, something I'm hoping Brandon corrects, especially with Lift moving into a more prominent role in the second half. Here's hoping Ghostbloods works well, and that the long break from Stormlight will help Brandon to correct these issues.

I'm really hoping for a return to form tonally tight and smooth flowing trilogy like we got in era 1, and that it takes off.

Only hope he doesn't take that approach with stormlight, or I won't hold SA 6 until 2043.

I'm not sure if I would prefer that or a mid ending.

3 minutes ago, Theory said:

Oh, I totally agree here. I really hope Brandon gets more editing next time. Do you think he could release and updated/more edited version of WaT (something I believe was discussed by someone already).

He has talked about how Tolkien did that with The Hobbit, so that's possible.

[Usseewa]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Only hope he doesn't take that approach with stormlight, or I won't hold SA 6 until 2043.

2043??

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Tangentially, but they can still work together without the 20+ page romance sub-plot, which just tonally and pacing wise felt so off.

I suppose. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you on this, but I do remember loving the human-singer relationship in that SR vision with Mishram's imprisonment.

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Honestly everything from seeing the trail of destruction in his wake, to him being chosen as a Herald to apparently him trying to kill Cultivation.

Yeah, he was pretty epic, wasn't he.

You have forgotten to forge steel. I will teach you to fight. I am Talenal stonesinew or whatever. I will teach you how to fight. ...

What do you think of him and Ash? I think it's kinda sweet that she's with and caring for him.

[NameIess]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Really?

Oh please tell me it's there, I'll go look in a second.

Yep. Page 1297 in my book.

Edited December 28, 2025 by NameIess

[Myst He/Him]

Honestly, since I believe one of the main characters for Stormlight era 2 is one of the heralds, I really hope it’s Taln, and if not, we get to see Taln in flashbacks. 

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, NameIess said:

Yep. Page 1297 in my book.

Oh excellent, thank you.

27 minutes ago, Theory said:

2043??

It took 14 years to write the first five books, and the next couple of years are already packed.

44 minutes ago, Theory said:

What do you think of him and Ash? I think it's kinda sweet that she's with and caring for him.

Well I definitely don't ship them, but I think the friendship is cool

 

[redundant]

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Broken said:

Honestly, since I believe one of the main characters for Stormlight era 2 is one of the heralds, I really hope it’s Taln, and if not, we get to see Taln in flashbacks. 

Brandon currently plans for Taln to be book 9.

[therunner he/him]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

The Contest of Champions. We built up for four entire books towards this objective and it's just such a letdown. Odium just straight up freezing Gavilnor in place was just rubbing salt in the wound. We were promised an epic fight and we didn't even get a satisfactory one. At least Gavilnor was 20 instead of 5 so it wasn't as dumb as it could have been but it still sucks.

I felt that was the point of it. It was supposed to feel like a let-down, because it is such a weaselly dishonorable way of getting around the wording of the contract.

Dalinar thought he would get epic heroic duel to save the world, and the readers thought they would get to see 'good' Blackthorn, but instead he got the same choice as in Rathalas:

• Kill the child for practical victory, at the cost of your own morals
• Don't kill the child, and effectively lose (I am putting it like this, because that choice ultimately led to Dalinar losing Evi, and himself)

Then of course Dalinar takes the third option.

Quote

The complete lack of stakes. Dalinar dies, and Adolin loses his leg, but other than that... there's not a lot. Odium got handed a massive victory and the heros walk away almost unscathed. Alethkar and Azimir in Coalition hands. It was rather disappointing.

I would disagree, from perspective of basically anyone:

• Kaladin is dead (we know he isn't, but no one else does) and so is Dalinar, which is a huge hit on morale for Coalition
  • And this is 2/3 main characters completely removed from the narrative, which is rather massive
• All their forces are separated and cannot travel due to lack of functional Oathgates
• Stormlight is lost, and so they loose the one things that allowed them to hold back Odium, Knights Radiant

They may not be personal losses, but strategically this is a complete and utter failure, and the heroes lose nearly everything they gained, outside of their personal growth.

Quote

In the Sunlit man Nomad thinks about how the spren in his armor come from both his first set of ideals. However in WaT he doesn't swear the fourth ideal for Windrunners. 

We also didn't see him become Skybreakers, but there is several centuries where both can happen, so not really a continuity error.

Quote

It's established multiple times in the books that you can lock oathgates, however in WaT the coalition has access to an Oathgate that enemy forces will push through and they don't lock it. Now it's possible that the corruption could be the cause of this but that should have been mentioned in the book.

As mentioned above, the Oathgate spren did say they would no longer obey them, and that they are free, so Coalition cannot seal Oathgates.

Quote

The largest one of them all however, and the one that honestly bothers me the most is that Dalinar released Odium from their agreement. Retribution does not have to give the coalition anything, nor does he have to honor their boundaries. He can simply claim their lands as his own, because the former agreement doesn't hold anymore. So why would he give them their own lands and territory? Why not just take everything like he wanted? I could understand if he just left Urithiru because the protections would prevent him from invading, but Azimir and Narak should be covered and taken.

Honor forced him to hold on to the agreement, because it hated Dalinar broke it.
Basically Dalinar gambled that the Power would force Taravangian to honor the agreement, even if Dalinar as Vessel broke it.

Edited December 28, 2025 by therunner

[Usseewa]

10 hours ago, Ookla the Broken said:

Honestly, since I believe one of the main characters for Stormlight era 2 is one of the heralds, I really hope it’s Taln, and if not, we get to see Taln in flashbacks. 

If you don't count it as a spoiler, the wiki has all the viewpoints for Arc 2 already:

Spoiler

Arc 2
Year Published	Book Title	Radiant Order	Flashback Viewpoint[fn 1]
Unknown	Unknown	Edgedancers	Lift[12]
Unknown	Unknown	Truthwatchers	Renarin Kholin[12]
Unknown	Unknown	Dustbringers	Shalash[12]
Unknown	Unknown	Stonewards	Talenel[12]
Unknown	Unknown	Elsecallers	Jasnah Kholin[12]

The source is this WoB:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Could you tell me whose books are the next few Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Eshonai, book four. (Even though, you know...) Szeth is book five. Six is Lift. Seven is Renarin. Eight is Ash. Nine is Taln. Ten is Jasnah.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

[Returned he/him]

18 hours ago, Frustration said:

The answer to all of this I believe is simple: editing time. Brandon has been saying for a while that his books are getting forced out as fast as he can write them. Part of that means that some things don't get quite the polish that they probably should.

I agree 100%. It's worse than just polish, though. WaT just doesn't have the same tightness and structure present in earlier Sanderson works. I don't think it holds a candle to The Final Empire. It would have needed major revisions, whole sections being changed, moved, in some cases removed, to fit together in the "old" Sanderson mode. With more subtlety and elegance WaT could have been a masterpiece, but instead a lot of stuff just felt... jammed in, like an exposition dump. Old promises that need to be met technically are, but not in a satisfying way. New ideas are throttled mainly to reserve content for future releases. More recent Cosmere releases read to me like they're first drafts or essentially basic expansions of their original outlines, like a 7th grader's early three-paragraph essays (plus introduction and conclusion).

We've been losing a lot of artistry and craft in exchange for more works more quickly. What I like about Sanderson's writing has generally been that I find it good and interesting, not just that it exists, and that's what made me a fan in the first place. An assembly line pace of output, if it comes with lower quality, feels disrespectful to the dedicated fan base.

Edited December 28, 2025 by Returned

[Schizoposting]

I disagree; Wind and Truth is good actually. The contest of champions was a classic example of Brandon's subversion of expectations: it was built up as an epic battle between Odium and Honor, only for it turn out that it didn't matter at all. The same goes for the contract—that's the joke. I think that the modern prose wasn't the issue people make it out to be (I hardly even noticed it), and it makes for an interesting artistic choice. The only problem is that it results in an inconsistent style vis-à-vis the other SA books. 

There's this idea that bad art isn't offensive; it's boring. So, the fact that so many people were personally offended by the words "therapist" and "dating", shows that there's something artistically productive about the use of these words. Overall, the discourse around Wind and Truth reminds me of the discourse around the newest Nolan film, where everyone is complaining about "historical accuracy" despite the fact that the film hasn't even come out yet.

 

Edited December 28, 2025 by Schizoposting

[Frustration]

On 12/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, therunner said:

I felt that was the point of it. It was supposed to feel like a let-down, because it is such a weaselly dishonorable way of getting around the wording of the contract.

Dalinar thought he would get epic heroic duel to save the world, and the readers thought they would get to see 'good' Blackthorn, but instead he got the same choice as in Rathalas:

• Kill the child for practical victory, at the cost of your own morals
• Don't kill the child, and effectively lose (I am putting it like this, because that choice ultimately led to Dalinar losing Evi, and himself)

Then of course Dalinar takes the third option.

I can understand that, but doing a Reread of Oathbringer or RoW It takes all the umph out of the scenes where Dalinar finally forces Odium to the contest.

On 12/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, therunner said:

I would disagree, from perspective of basically anyone:

• Kaladin is dead (we know he isn't, but no one else does) and so is Dalinar, which is a huge hit on morale for Coalition
  • And this is 2/3 main characters completely removed from the narrative, which is rather massive
• All their forces are separated and cannot travel due to lack of functional Oathgates
• Stormlight is lost, and so they loose the one things that allowed them to hold back Odium, Knights Radiant

They may not be personal losses, but strategically this is a complete and utter failure, and the heroes lose nearly everything they gained, outside of their personal growth.

I mean they might feel like they lost, but I don't feel it. I know Kaladin's not dead so that doesn't hurt.

While the lack of functional oathgates hurts, Jasnah at some point in figures out Elsegates as we can see from Szeth's wife who was in Shinover but says that she spoke with Jasnah who was the leader of their order, so she clearly was an Elsecaller and managed to get inside Urithiru.

And yes Stormlight is gone but they control Urithiru which is still untouchable, their powers still work and they are for all intents and purposes safe.

Not that those aren't huge downsides, but it's not even close to what I think we should see for a defeat so incredible.

On 12/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, therunner said:

We also didn't see him become Skybreakers, but there is several centuries where both can happen, so not really a continuity error.

He's not a windrunner by the end of the book, so how does he swear the fourth ideal for the Windrunners with his first set of ideals?

And we see him leaving the planet with Aux, so it's implied to not be too far distant.

On 12/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, therunner said:

As mentioned above, the Oathgate spren did say they would no longer obey them, and that they are free, so Coalition cannot seal Oathgates.

I took the locking mechanism as overriding them, and the spren wouldn't have the choice to allow them through.  But I suppose I can accept that answer.

On 12/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, therunner said:

Honor forced him to hold on to the agreement, because it hated Dalinar broke it.
Basically Dalinar gambled that the Power would force Taravangian to honor the agreement, even if Dalinar as Vessel broke it.

Yeah that one's my bad I completely missed it on my read through.

21 hours ago, Schizoposting said:

I disagree; Wind and Truth is good actually.

I never said it was bad, I said it had problems.

21 hours ago, Schizoposting said:

The contest of champions was a classic example of Brandon's subversion of expectations: it was built up as an epic battle between Odium and Honor, only for it turn out that it didn't matter at all. The same goes for the contract—that's the joke.

I don't believe subversion of expectations to be good for its own sake.

Nor do I find it funny.

21 hours ago, Schizoposting said:

I think that the modern prose wasn't the issue people make it out to be (I hardly even noticed it), and it makes for an interesting artistic choice. The only problem is that it results in an inconsistent style vis-à-vis the other SA books. 

I don't think it's that bad, but it still is a bit of an issue and shows my main point.

21 hours ago, Schizoposting said:

There's this idea that bad art isn't offensive; it's boring. So, the fact that so many people were personally offended by the words "therapist" and "dating", shows that there's something artistically productive about the use of these words.

I'm sorry I'm not following.

People find certain language off-putting and so it's good that it's there?

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

Honestly I think I need to reread WaT again bc I remember only good things from it but it’s been abt a year so idk.  

[Usseewa]

1 minute ago, Honors Ghost said:

Honestly I think I need to reread WaT again bc I remember only good things from it but it’s been abt a year so idk.  

It's been about a month for me (since my first read; I haven't re-read yet), but I too could use a re-read.

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

I’m finishing the two books I got for Christmas then I’m gonna restart all of SA

[Usseewa]

1 minute ago, Honors Ghost said:

I’m finishing the two books I got for Christmas then I’m gonna restart all of SA

Ooh, which ones?

I was gonna restart SA, but I decided to postpone after reading a few WoK chapters.

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

I got book two WoT and the Strength of the Few

yah i also got the WoK leatherbounds so that also makes me a lil more excited to start SA again

[Usseewa]

2 minutes ago, Honors Ghost said:

I got book two WoT and the Strength of the Few

yah i also got the WoK leatherbounds so that also makes me a lil more excited to start SA again

Wheel of Time? I have the first one, but haven't started it yet. As for Strength of Few, isn't that #2 of Will of Many? I have the latter, but again, haven't started it yet (I have a whole shelf where the same is true). Are they good (or, the first books in the series)?

The leatherbounds looked really cool.

Edited December 29, 2025 by Theory

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

Yeah I am liking wheel of time a lot rn it’s quite good and strength of the few is book two of will of the many and I haven’t started it yet but I’m excited

they areee

[Returned he/him]

51 minutes ago, Honors Ghost said:

Yeah I am liking wheel of time a lot rn it’s quite good and strength of the few is book two of will of the many and I haven’t started it yet but I’m excited

they areee

I hope you power through book 9 at least, if you find any of the middle books to be a slog. Many people complain about books in the 6-9 range and stop reading (though I personally feel that only book 8 is weak enough to justify the complaints, that book was a slog for me!), but the final books are worth it.

Edited December 29, 2025 by Returned

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

Just now, Returned said:

I hope you power through book 9 at least, if you find them to be a slog. Many people complain about books in the 6-9 range (though I personally feel that only book 8 is weak enough to justify the complaints, it was a slog for me!), but the final books are worth it.

It doesn’t feel long yet but  only on book two

[Schizoposting]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

I never said it was bad, I said it had problems.

I was more so responding to the general consensus than to you specifically. 

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

I don't believe subversion of expectations to be good for its own sake.

It's not for its own sake: by subverting expectations with respects to the contract, Brandon is implicitly critiquing "legalism"—the idea that the conflict between Odium and Honor can be resolved by just writing up a contract. The same goes for the contest; he is critiquing the "trolley problem", by saying that the problem is not whether or not you should pull the lever, but the poor safety standards that led to this situation in the first place. 

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

I don't think it's that bad, but it still is a bit of an issue and shows my main point.

What makes it an issue?

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

I'm sorry I'm not following.

People find certain language off-putting and so it's good that it's there?

The question is why people find it so off-putting. It's such a minor detail, and yet people endlessly talk about it. So clearly there is something deeper at play. 

Besides, good art is, on a certain level, meant to challenge the reader. If it doesn't, then it's not doing anything interesting.