Can you Pump a person with investiture using Rayseium?

[Lesser spren]

We know that Rayseium doesn't just suck out investiture. It conducts investiture from one end to another. So what if a human was on the other end? Would it forcefully invest a Radiant or a misting? What if the person were just a normal human without any powers or invested arts?

[Sophrosyne He/any]

Have you read Stromlight 5? Because spoilers for Wind and Truth.

Spoiler

This is how Odium's forces are dealing with Radiants!
They're being stabbed Rayseium daggers filled with anti-stromlight. and the result is _BOOM_.

 

Edited August 4, 2025 by Sophrosyne
Spelling.

[Lesser spren]

21 hours ago, Sophrosyne said:

Have you read Stromlight 5? Because spoilers for Wind and Truth.

  Hide contents

This is how Odium's forces are dealing with Radiants!
They're being stabbed Rayseium daggers filled with anti-stromlight. and the result is _BOOM_.

 

Spoiler

I forgot about that part but the question about what happens when a non-radiant gets injected with stormlight still stands.

 

[Onironte he/him]

18 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

Spoiler

I forgot about that part but the question about what happens when a non-radiant gets injected with stormlight still stands.

If a non-Radiant were to receive Stormlight, I think it would be similar to giving Allomantic metals to someone who isn’t a Mistborn. They would have the Investiture present in their body, but wouldn’t be able to use it. I don’t believe you could create a Misting this way, since Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities depend on the spiritual DNA—not just the presence of Investiture in the body.

However, Rayseium might provide a way to steal Breaths. And since Feruchemy can grant attributes like health and youth (hence they are forms of Investiture), perhaps Rayseium could be used to steal those attributes as well. Theoretically. I think.

 

[Nitpicking]

On 8/5/2025 at 5:57 PM, Onironte said:

However, Rayseium might provide a way to steal Breaths. And since Feruchemy can grant attributes like health and youth (hence they are forms of Investiture), perhaps Rayseium could be used to steal those attributes as well. Theoretically. I think.

Aren't you just describing hemalurgy?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

On 8/5/2025 at 2:57 PM, Onironte said:

If a non-Radiant were to receive Stormlight, I think it would be similar to giving Allomantic metals to someone who isn’t a Mistborn. They would have the Investiture present in their body, but wouldn’t be able to use it. I don’t believe you could create a Misting this way, since Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities depend on the spiritual DNA—not just the presence of Investiture in the body.

However, Rayseium might provide a way to steal Breaths. And since Feruchemy can grant attributes like health and youth (hence they are forms of Investiture), perhaps Rayseium could be used to steal those attributes as well. Theoretically. I think.

 

No, Feruchemy converts the attributes into investiture. So you might be able to do it if you stabbed a metalmind.

6 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

Aren't you just describing hemalurgy?

I don't think it would kill them.

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

6 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

No, Feruchemy converts the attributes into investiture. So you might be able to do it if you stabbed a metalmind.

I don't think it would kill them.

As of TLM, neither does Hemalurgy...

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

13 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

As of TLM, neither does Hemalurgy...

Hemlaurgy can be used without killing, but it produces a weakened effect, as it draws on less investiture.

If you want Hemalurgy at full power, you need murder.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Hemlaurgy can be used without killing, but it produces a weakened effect, as it draws on less investiture.

If you want Hemalurgy at full power, you need murder.

Source?

Hemalurgy should not be taking all of a Spiritweb even when killing the donor, only specific parts. For example, a steel spike taking the power of a Pewterarm doesn't show any signs of siphoning their other attributes in addition- you need other metals for that- so why would there be less Investiture in a steel spike that happened to not kill a Pewterarm donor than one driven through their entire body?

I don't see strong evidence yet that non-lethal Hemalurgy has to be weaker than standard Hemalurgy when taking things like Metalborn powers or innate Investiture. Attributes necessary for survival like strength or mental acuity might be weaker when harvested non-lethally, but I think only if you deliberately took less to preserve enough for survival. 

Perhaps it is weaker- maybe diluting Ruin's Intent or something- but we don't have enough evidence to tell yet, I believe. 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

16 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Source?

Hemalurgy should not be taking all of a Spiritweb even when killing the donor, only specific parts. For example, a steel spike taking the power of a Pewterarm doesn't show any signs of siphoning their other attributes in addition- you need other metals for that- so why would there be less Investiture in a steel spike that happened to not kill a Pewterarm donor than one driven through their entire body?

I don't see strong evidence yet that non-lethal Hemalurgy has to be weaker than standard Hemalurgy when taking things like Metalborn powers or innate Investiture. Attributes necessary for survival like strength or mental acuity might be weaker when harvested non-lethally, but I think only if you deliberately took less to preserve enough for survival. 

Perhaps it is weaker- maybe diluting Ruin's Intent or something- but we don't have enough evidence to tell yet, I believe. 

You are right, that was merely my assumption. However, I believe that from a perspective of Brandon's Rules of Magic, having the Murder Magic be able to not have to Murder and still be at the exact same power is a bit weird.

You are right though, we don't have enough evidence to know either way, there is no evidence in either direction.

[Sophrosyne He/any]

On 8/4/2025 at 10:13 PM, Lesser spren said:

I forgot about that part but the question about what happens when a non-radiant gets injected with stormlight still stands.

I'd suspect you'd get base line stormlight enhancements as drawing stormlight and using surges is what spren give. but simply holing investiture is shown to give phiscal boosts. So you'd be a surgeless raident?

[AltonicKeys he/him]

On 9/4/2025 at 8:22 PM, Sophrosyne said:

I'd suspect you'd get base line stormlight enhancements as drawing stormlight and using surges is what spren give. but simply holing investiture is shown to give phiscal boosts. So you'd be a surgeless raident?

I like this answer, I think it makes sense.

In a similar vein, I think injecting someone with investiture from a metalmind would work similarly to if a feruchemist were touching another's metalmind. They'd be able to sense the stored power but wouldn't be able to access it, the way Vin felt Sazed's.
If it's possible to extract the kinetic investiture from an allomancer actively using their powers, I'd imagine it to be a similar feeling of inaccessible power. Unless that's not how allomancy works.

Also, Coppermind mentions that a non-Nalthian can use transferred Breaths, but it may be harder?

Spoiler

Each Nalthian is born with one Breath. Any person with Breath can use it for Awakening, though it's harder for a non-Nalthian.^[6] Other Investiture can be used to fuel Awakening, though the method on how is hard to figure out.^[7][8][9] One may choose to give away one's Breath to another person, increasing that person's number of Breaths.

However, according to the associated WoB, transferring Breaths via the Awakening command ("My life to yours, my Breath become yours") automatically keys the Breaths to the receiver. Forcefully moving the Breaths with Raysium would most likely not do the same courtesy. Since you need the Breaths to be keyed to your Identity, you can't really Awaken anything with that, can't even get rid of it, and once again you'd be stuck with inaccessible investiture

Someone correct me if anything up there's wrong, but I feel like this is the general gist of things.

[Nitpicking]

On 9/6/2025 at 10:07 PM, AltonicKeys said:

However, according to the associated WoB, transferring Breaths via the Awakening command ("My life to yours, my Breath become yours") automatically keys the Breaths to the receiver. Forcefully moving the Breaths with Raysium would most likely not do the same courtesy. Since you need the Breaths to be keyed to your Identity, you can't really Awaken anything with that, can't even get rid of it, and once again you'd be stuck with inaccessible investiture

I like refer back to the Intent of the Shard who gives each Nalthian their Breath (extra Investiture). She's the goddess of gifting, not taking. I have to think a taking magic like Raysium or hemalurgy would be less effective with Breath for that reason--they're directly opposed to the Intent that created the Breath.

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

On 8/4/2025 at 12:37 AM, Lesser spren said:

We know that Rayseium doesn't just suck out investiture. It conducts investiture from one end to another. So what if a human was on the other end? Would it forcefully invest a Radiant or a misting? What if the person were just a normal human without any powers or invested arts?

I don’t think it would be necessarily healthy.

If the Investiture is unable to interact with the body, then it will kinda just be trapped there; pretty sure Spren provide direct access to Investiture and stuff, so an uninvested person would be unable to receive it.

So either a) The investiture doesn’t enter their body

Or b) The investiture enters their body and can’t leave, causing major medical problems (air bubbles in blood sort of things)