What happened to:

[Eahlendell]

What happened to Autonomy:

 

Quote

There are whispers it might be another of Autonomy’s old dominions. Which would give the possibility…

I get the impression that she no longer around. 

[lacrossedeamon]

Sounds more like she's retreated somewhat to consolidate her power base. Or at least that's what people think.

Edited July 18, 2025 by lacrossedeamon

[alder24]

17 hours ago, Eahlendell said:

What happened to Autonomy:

 

I get the impression that she no longer around. 

Or she just gave up some of her possessions. Patji is alive and well and Patji is Autonomy's Avatar. An Avatar is a semi-autonomous part of the Shard so I doubt it would be left undisturbed during Splintering of its Shard.

[RedBlue]

On 7/19/2025 at 11:39 AM, alder24 said:

Patji is alive and well and Patji is Autonomy's Avatar. An Avatar is a semi-autonomous part of the Shard so I doubt it would be left undisturbed during Splintering of its Shard.

I think Patji would survive even if Bavadin died.

The Stormfather was originally an Avatar, and continued to function after Tanavast’s death.

I would expect a newly independent Avatar to be a bit weird as it awakens to personhood and develops its own personality, but we don’t know enough about Patji to rule out the possibility that such a thing happened.

[bmcclure7]

12 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I think Patji would survive even if Bavadin died.

The Stormfather was originally an Avatar, and continued to function after Tanavast’s death.

I would expect a newly independent Avatar to be a bit weird as it awakens to personhood and develops its own personality, but we don’t know enough about Patji to rule out the possibility that such a thing happened.

Storm father was never an avatar

On 7/18/2025 at 12:26 PM, Eahlendell said:

What happened to Autonomy:

 

I get the impression that she no longer around. 

It’s possible she was splintered, but her avatars remain somehow

[RedBlue]

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Storm father was never an avatar

He was created as an avatar.

WaT chapter 113 (a Tanavast PoV):

Quote

I, the Almighty, rode the storms. Imprinted myself on them, made them an avatar of me. A word used by the gods for an aspect of themselves that works with a certain self-determination.
It is not the same for us as for mortals. We can think many thoughts and be many places. Here I created a spren who was—at the same time—myself. Myself if I were free to just … exist. It was not fully independent. It was not fully me. I savored its simple joy.

 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Maybe it has something to do with whatever mysterious thing Sazed did that Ed almost mentioned, some action that so far only he is the only living Shard to perform.

Era 3 is going to have more about Trell (Autonomy) and have more on Sazed's slide from Harmony into Discord, however that pans out. Emberdark is before Mistborn Era 4, so whatever has happened to Autonomy, it'll likely have happened/will happen in Mistborn Era 3. Which will be out by the end of the decade.

Provided that it is indeed related to Sazed, and not the result of some other book series that hasn't been written yet, which would be kind of weird since narratively, whatever is happening on Scadrial now concerns Autonomy since Autonomy is actively trying to destroy it, and as of Emberdark, Scadrial is still very much undestroyed and doesn't seem to have been taken over by Autonomy.

And something about how Sazed will 'release' the Kandra might also tie into it, but again, no guarantees that there are any correlations.

[bmcclure7]

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

He was created as an avatar.

WaT chapter 113 (a Tanavast PoV):

 

I stand corrected

[Eahlendell]

I found most puzzling was this: if no Shard resides in the system, then there shouldn’t be a perpendicularity. That’s typically how it works.

I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case—because if perpendicularities can exist on shardless planets, it opens the door for worlds like Tress’s to access the Cognitive Realm without a Shard being present.

The other possibility is that people underestimate Patji’s nature. If Patji is truly an avatar of Autonomy, then perhaps Autonomy has always been present in the system—long before the arrival of those from the Forests of the Sun.

It’s still unclear which explanation is more likely, but both raise fascinating questions about how Shards interact with their systems.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Eahlendell said:

if no Shard resides in the system, then there shouldn’t be a perpendicularity. That’s typically how it works.

That is not actually correct. The presence of a Shard will create at least one Perpendicularity (which may or may not be a Shardpool) - however, any very significant coalescence of Investiture in the Cognitive or Physical Realm  can also create a stable Perpendicularity (not yet understood in world - hence their debates on the topic). 

TLM Spoilers

Spoiler

That is also why and how Trell was able to create the hidden Perpendicularity under Bilming - gather and concentrate raw investiture in one spot until a perpendicularity formed. That one was new and much less stable, though.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner #1

So we know how some people can enter Shadesmar, or the cognitive realm, how do other places, like- we haven't seen anything for the Mistborn series. Do we know how they can enter.

Brandon Sanderson

Read Secret History.

Questioner #1

I did read that, but it didn't really say much besides that one special case.

Brandon Sanderson

Right, Hoid talks about Perpendicularities on Scadrial, if you go look at that there are certain places he talks about that. Let's just say that large concentrations of Investiture will cause a puncture through the spiritual realm straight to the physical realm, that if you know how to use it, you may transition. That's not the only way but is the primary way.

Questioner #1

And of course you can Soulcast [Elsecall?] to get there.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner #2

Now that's a very interesting analogy you just made, you said "punctured" almost as though it were a spike.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes, that was intentional.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

Quote

Questioner

Hoid worldhops between places. How did he do it on Scadrial? With Ati's body?

Brandon Sanderson

So, there were two perpendicularities on Scadrial.

Questioner

I know he uses the pools, but how did he do it with Pits of Hathsin? There was no pool? The body was there...

Brandon Sanderson

So, it doesn't have to be going through the pool. What happens with a perpendicularity is, where there is a massive collection of Investiture, it pulls a conduit through. So, if you know what you're doing and where you are, you can get through that.

Questioner

So you don't have to use the pools, just where there's a huge concentration...

Brandon Sanderson

A huge concentration of Investiture will warp the realms.

Questioner

So can anyone worldhop that way, then? If they know what to do?

Brandon Sanderson

If they know what to do, in a perpendicularity, anyone should be able to get through there. But as proven with Raoden, if you don't know what it's supposed to do, nothing happens. He gets dumped int he pool, he thinks he's gonna die... nothing. So, it's more than just being there.

Questioner

That's how he went from the Physical to the Cognitive, so I was wondering how did he do that at the Pits of Hathsin, when there shouldn't be a pool there

Brandon Sanderson

Well, that is the equivalent.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Quote

<Edited for length and Relevance>

Questioner 2

Kind of related to that, I don't know if this is a RAFO kind of question, but you call them perpendicularities, are we going to see this sort of thing created? Could there be, like--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, perpendicularities can be created. You'd need a lot of Investiture, right? You'd need a ton of Investiture. But, basically what Jasnah does is create a little mini perpendicularity, right? And slips herself into the Cognitive Realm.

Questioner 2

So it's just a question of skill, not a question of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. It's hard to pull off, but some of the powers are built to do it.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

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TheFulgid

Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. 

<Edited for Length and Relevance>

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

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Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar.

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

Shardic intervention is not the only way Patji's Perpendicularity may have formed - it's possible the Shardpool existed before Autonomy began to form an Avatar there at all. Could even be why she formed an Avatar on First of the Sun. 

Hope that helps

[bmcclure7]

On 7/31/2025 at 5:56 AM, Eahlendell said:

 

I found most puzzling was this: if no Shard resides in the system, then there shouldn’t be a perpendicularity. That’s typically how it works.

I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case—because if perpendicularities can exist on shardless planets, it opens the door for worlds like Tress’s to access the Cognitive Realm without a Shard being present.

The other possibility is that people underestimate Patji’s nature. If Patji is truly an avatar of Autonomy, then perhaps Autonomy has always been present in the system—long before the arrival of those from the Forests of the Sun.

It’s still unclear which explanation is more likely, but both raise fascinating questions about how Shards interact with their systems.

Her planet already has a perpendicularity. 

[LockDown Ammo he/him]

On 8/6/2025 at 12:34 AM, bmcclure7 said:

Her planet already has a perpendicularity. 

Lumar does not have a perpendicularity. No Aether world currently has one which is why it is an economic and logistics hassle to get spores.
 

On 7/31/2025 at 11:10 PM, Treamayne said:

Shardic intervention is not the only way Patji's Perpendicularity may have formed - it's possible the Shardpool existed before Autonomy began to form an Avatar there at all. Could even be why she formed an Avatar on First of the Sun. 

This reminds me.... First of the Sun was uninhabited before their ancestors came? If so it indeed does not make sense for Autonomy to create an avatar on such a planet. If not then what happened to the original people? As there seems to be just one culture and way of thinking.

We also don't know which planet are they originally from or why would they leave it... It could have been Autonomy's planet and then she guided them on this "quest" to survive and prove themselves so she made the Perpendicularity and Avatar there before they reached.

[bmcclure7]

19 hours ago, LockDown Ammo said:

Lumar does not have a perpendicularity. No Aether world currently has one which is why it is an economic and logistics hassle to get spores.
 

This reminds me.... First of the Sun was uninhabited before their ancestors came? If so it indeed does not make sense for Autonomy to create an avatar on such a planet. If not then what happened to the original people? As there seems to be just one culture and way of thinking.

We also don't know which planet are they originally from or why would they leave it... It could have been Autonomy's planet and then she guided them on this "quest" to survive and prove themselves so she made the Perpendicularity and Avatar there before they reached.

If it didn’t have a perpendicularity, then there will be no way for the sorcerer to take control of other worldly trade which she specifically has done so there must be a perpendicularity we have no confirmation that Aether worlds cannot have a perpendicularity.

 

What do you mean a hassle to get spores? It seems to me like spores are everywhere. Clearly the result of perpendicularity otherwise they wouldn’t be so common given the cost of faster than my travel.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

If it didn’t have a perpendicularity, then there will be no way for the sorcerer to take control of other worldly trade which she specifically has done so there must be a perpendicularity we have no confirmation that Aether worlds cannot have a perpendicularity.

 

What do you mean a hassle to get spores? It seems to me like spores are everywhere. Clearly the result of perpendicularity otherwise they wouldn’t be so common given the cost of faster than my travel.

Have you read Isles of the Emberdark? 

It's specifically called out that there was no perpendicularity and that FTL was the only method of acquisition which caused Spores to be expensive and difficult to source.

IED Ch 36:

Spoiler

Currently, ships had to use FTL to reach Lumar for aether harvesting—either that or pay for the more powerful, but more regulated, versions available from Aditil’s people.

 

[Elegy he/him]

There are also talks about Khriss being back on Taldain - she had been on exile because of Autonomy last we knew -, and Starling considered Taldain a world technologically at least equal to Scadrial - while we know that Bavadin always had a way of hindering technological progress for Taldain (and other worlds, at that, which she obviously absolutely failed at). So yeah, something is up there, either Bavadin has changed her mind about these matters (highly unlikely for a Shard) or the vessel has changed, or Autonomy has been splintered.

Given that Autonomy is set up to be the main antagonist of Ghostbloods, none of this feels very surprising imo, but I was kinda surprised at Brandon dropping so many hints about it.

[Treamayne]

41 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Bavadin always had a way of hindering technological progress for Taldain (and other worlds, at that, which she obviously absolutely failed at).

It was the opposite - at least while Autonomy went full-isolationist. She interfered to boost tech for Taldain (giving Gunpowder to Darkside - as seen in White Sand and Secret History [Khriss' revolver]) and more we have not yet seen, but was hinted by Kelsier in TLM.

Spoiler

TLM Ep4:

Quote

“What are you proposing?” Sazed asked.

“Lead us into a new technological age,” Kelsier said. “Help us find ways to defend ourselves, and perhaps accomplish even more. Autonomy consistently shares with her people the things they can accomplish with electricity and industry. You don’t.”

“People should discover it on their own,” Sazed said.

Quote

yafeshan

I am space nerd with a love of fantasy, so; Why is Scadrial prime example planet to invent space travel. Is its allomancy/ferruchemy/hemalurgy combination more suitable for that kind of technology or do they have other incentives to invent space travel other than regular technology development? Is it related to the intervention of unknown metal/shard/beings we saw?

Brandon Sanderson

There are a bunch of reasons.

The most technologically advanced of the planets (Taldain) is extremely isolationist because of its Shard, while Harmony is very interested in the progress of his people.

Scadrial has an advanced understanding of metallurgy, and for many years was quietly open to visitors from across the cosmere. In the modern era, that has enhanced. It's a much safer place to visit than, say, Sel, Threnody, or First of the Sun.

There are other reasons, too, which we'll get into as the world progresses. Having some prominent cosmere-aware people pulling strings behind the scenes is a big help. If you know other worlds are out there, and are populated, then you're more likely to push toward space travel.

Stormlight Three Update #6 (Feb. 8, 2017)

 

Hope that helps

[Elegy he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

It was the opposite - at least while Autonomy went full-isolationist. She interfered to boost tech for Taldain (giving Gunpowder to Darkside - as seen in White Sand and Secret History [Khriss' revolver]) and more we have not yet seen, but was hinted by Kelsier in TLM.

  Hide contents

TLM Ep4:

 

Hope that helps

Interesting. This WOB makes it sound like the isolation and Taldain not reaching space travel before Scadrial are causally related:

Quote

Truthwatcher_17.5

Darksiders have almost as advanced technology as second Era Scadrians.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

But then we see Darksiders in The Secret-- in Mistborn: The Secret History. So are they gonna be the first spacefarers, are they gonna get there before Scadrians?

Brandon Sanderson

So, where it is right now is that certain things have happened to Taldain that have isolated it and cut it off.

Questioner

Yeah, a little bit in Arcanum Unbounded talked about that.

Brandon Sanderson

And some-- they're under-- going through some difficult times, let's say... So, I will RAFO whether or not they're going to make it first to make it to space, but let's just say they were well on target to making it first before certain events happened.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

[Treamayne]

15 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Interesting. This WOB makes it sound like the isolation and Taldain not reaching space travel before Scadrial are causally related:

 

Yep. Brandon's talked about it a few times - an example on how Scientific Discovery spurs Scientific Discovery.

So, while Talkdain was accessing Silverlight and hosting Worldhoppers, their understanding was moving right along. Then Autonomy closed them off and they started stagnating for lack of cultural and knowledge exchange. Presumably, this is when Bavadin started "sharing" ideas to try helping them catch back up (Kelsier's Comment). If Taldain is open again (as of IED) then it may be that she realized the isolationism was causing more problems than it was fixing. . .