No More Raysium?

[Steel Speedster ♂]

We don’t know where exactly raysium came from, but now that Odium and Honor are merged, will the resulting new godmetal (taravangium?) be the only thing available?

Obviously, pre-existing raysium should still be available, but there’s implied to not be too much of it. Raysium seems to be the main way to effectively utilize anti-light, so it should be a very important resource at this point.

Unlike harmonium, there won’t be an easy way to split taravangium to get its components. For one thing, trellium isn’t available on Roshar, and for another, it likely wouldn’t work on taravangium anyway, since the two Shards that make up Retribution are not in conflict as they are with Harmony.

However, since it seems to be possible to separate hybrid lights into their components (although I don’t think we’ve seen that yet), it might be possible to do the same to their solid form, in which case we could also see some tanavastium.

[Somerandom1922]

That's a good question, I wonder if other godmetals are also good at conducting light, it just so happens that Raysium was the most readily available. Shardblades are made of a godmetal (a mix of Honor and Cultivation's metal depending on the order), but they have a very different cognitive aspect that just pure GodMetal on its own, so that may have interfered with this (especially as dead blades had gemstones infused in their hilt). Perhaps the Retribution's godmetal will have similar properties, or perhaps if you could get enough Lerasium it would too.

Also, I feel like a more general-use method of splitting godmetals into their component parts will be found than the method used on Harmonium. It may take a long time to find, but I expect that it'll allow splitting any godmetal into potential component parts (e.g. if Endowment got split into something like "Giving" and "Ownership").

In the interim though, it does seem that there just isn't much in the way of available Raysium to make anti-light daggers work.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

I actually found a WoB that suggests that Retribution would still be capable of producing raysium.

Quote

Questioner

Could [Sazed] also bring back lerasium beads, if he wanted to?

Brandon Sanderson

It would be within his power to do so, yes.

Firefight Miami signing (Jan. 8, 2015)

 

[Letryx13]

1 hour ago, Steel Speedster said:

I actually found a WoB that suggests that Retribution would still be capable of producing raysium.

 

If Sazen could still create Lerasium and Atium, then yeah, Taravangian can still create Raysium.  What interests me is what Taravangium would do.

[Treamayne]

Though, we don't even know if TOdium's Godmetal was Raysium either. The WoB said it could change, but didn't have to change.

Spoiler

Questioner

When a Shard changes hands, does the god-metal change names and/or properties?

Brandon Sanderson

It can. It doesn't as a rule.

Questioner

So it'll still be raysium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Well, the name, you would change the name, probably. But it shouldn't necessarily do anything different. The name that it's given is cultural. So you could continue to call it that. People might call it that. I think people in-world would call it something else. But depends on the person.

JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021)

 

[RefusesToElaborate]

As far as memory can take me, I do believe that Harmonium can be split into Lerasium and Atium.

So all you'd need to do is split Retributium somehow... Taravagium. Vargium. Tarium.

Oh, Rust... it's Rosharium, anyone who disagrees can submit their complaints directly to the waste paper basket.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

24 minutes ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

As far as memory can take me, I do believe that Harmonium can be split into Lerasium and Atium.

So all you'd need to do is split Retributium somehow...

Splitting harmonium requires trellium, which isn’t available on Roshar. Additionally, it may only have worked on harmonium due to its unstable nature.

[RefusesToElaborate]

9 minutes ago, Steel Speedster said:

Splitting harmonium requires trellium, which isn’t available on Roshar. Additionally, it may only have worked on harmonium due to its unstable nature.

Hmmm.

Yes, you're right, and it would make sense that a piece of Autonomy would be required to separate a piece of two distinct intents. However, I would be shocked if Autonomy, based on recent clarity made in the Timeline, isn't going to show an interest in Roshar very soon. I believe her actions on Scadrial are direct preparations to combat Retribution.

It's almost funny, I basically predicted this outcome in like... whenever Rhythm of War came out, based on the idea that Mistborn Era 2 was not running concurrently with or preceding Stormlight, but following it.

In this idea, yes Honour and Odium were combined, but they were called Crusade or Prejudice, not Retribution. And they were being beared by Dalinar intent on reforming Adonalsium.

[AlmightyGir]

My question is more related to Harmonium/Ettmetal:
If the running theory about Harmony is correct, and that he also has the potential to become Discord, does that mean that if/when that happens, a variation of Ettmetal will exist that has different properties? IE: if Harmony is Harmony because he's surpressing Ruin, Harmonium might be the way it is because it has a lower volume of Ruin/Atium in its composition. If/when the shift is made to Discord, would any of his godmetal that's created after that point be higher volume of Ruin/Atium in the composition, and what effect would that have on the resulting alloy?

[1000CremlingsInATrenchcoat He/Him]

8 hours ago, Steel Speedster said:

We don’t know where exactly raysium came from, but now that Odium and Honor are merged, will the resulting new godmetal (taravangium?) be the only thing available?

Obviously, pre-existing raysium should still be available, but there’s implied to not be too much of it. Raysium seems to be the main way to effectively utilize anti-light, so it should be a very important resource at this point.

Unlike harmonium, there won’t be an easy way to split taravangium to get its components. For one thing, trellium isn’t available on Roshar, and for another, it likely wouldn’t work on taravangium anyway, since the two Shards that make up Retribution are not in conflict as they are with Harmony.

However, since it seems to be possible to separate hybrid lights into their components (although I don’t think we’ve seen that yet), it might be possible to do the same to their solid form, in which case we could also see some tanavastium.

My current going theory is that the core of Braize is made of Raysium. We don't know yet what was attracting souls back to Braize, but that's my guess. Doesn't make the stuff easy to recover, but it's maybe not out of the question. There may be some way to split this new godmetal, of course, although Trellium does feel pretty specific to have a copycat out there. I don't necessarily think the violence of splitting Harmonium has anything to do with the competing powers though, I think it has to do with splitting axon bonds. I'm pretty sure it would still be quite dangerous.

I think we will see the dividing of lights and perhaps some sort of means of dealing with the earthshattering kaboom. Anti-lifelight could turn Towerlight into Stormlight, I'm pretty sure. However, metals being solid objects and all, splitting those powers is probably nearly impossible without Trellium. Tanavastium and Raysium are theoretically useful, but not quite as game changing as Lerasium and Atium. Some people might pursue them, but not many.

[TheoreticalMagic]

5 hours ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

Hmmm.

Yes, you're right, and it would make sense that a piece of Autonomy would be required to separate a piece of two distinct intents. However, I would be shocked if Autonomy, based on recent clarity made in the Timeline, isn't going to show an interest in Roshar very soon. I believe her actions on Scadrial are direct preparations to combat Retribution.

I too would not be shocked to see Bavadin slip an avatar onto Roshar ASAP.....and given her trend of impersonating (or inspiring) figures from other religions, imagine if she tried to take advantage of the nature of the Oathpact and have an avatar impersonate a Herald while they're stuck on Braize. And

Spoiler

due to Taravangian's inability to find the Heralds' minds this time, I could see Autonomy deliberately trying to play both sides against each other, maybe trying to get Taravangian to believe her faux Herald avatar's actions are his Herald enemies and planning for that accordingly, thus keeping him and the Heralds focused on their conflict with each other while she further entrenches herself in Rosharan matters. 

OR for that matter....due to how the Heralds are hidden, likely even other Shards aren't able to totally pin them down, not just Retribution....meaning until their next Return, Kaladin's current status could be a COMPLETE cosmere-wide wildcard that nobody is actually prepared for. Like people with enough knowledge of the relevant mechanics might GUESS that for the Oathpact to be holding there has to be a tenth member of the reforged circle and nine wouldn't cut it, and Kaladin IS the most likely prospect, but that's not the same thing as knowing for sure. I'm just saying, given the mythical aspect Kaladin's reputation has taken on over the past five books, I'm amused by the thought that the recently deceased Kaladin might appear to Autonomy as the perfect figure to impersonate and claim as having elevated to some sort of spiritual/semi-divine status, leading her to create an Avatar in his image.....

And then cue the Return and Real!Kaladin shows up and he's like.....THAT DOESN'T EVEN LOOK LIKE ME. Is that what people think I look like?! The other Heralds, well used to their appearances being morphed over time in artistic depictions: Yeah that's rough buddy.

 

Edited January 11, 2025 by TheoreticalMagic

[Nitpicking]

Crack Theory of the Day: the Blackthorn spren is an avatar of Autonomy.

[Dofurion]

20 hours ago, 1000CremlingsInATrenchcoat said:

My current going theory is that the core of Braize is made of Raysium. We don't know yet what was attracting souls back to Braize, but that's my guess.

From my point of view, Braize's core is made of Tanavastium. Let's look at the characteristics:

• Let Tanavast be attracted to it.
• Reinforce the oath.
• And attract cognitive entities (It seems to me more like a magnet than a conductor).

Now, Brandon can still surprise us with a new type of metal, let's say a dawn-metal, aligned with the hypothetical macrointention of 4 shard's. That would be a big surprise.

[Nitpicking]

Folks do realize Braize is named after Rayse, right? Same as Mraize?

 

And by "realize", I of course mean, that's my idea.

[Letryx13]

18 hours ago, TheoreticalMagic said:

I too would not be shocked to see Bavadin slip an avatar onto Roshar ASAP.....and given her trend of impersonating (or inspiring) figures from other religions, imagine if she tried to take advantage of the nature of the Oathpact and have an avatar impersonate a Herald while they're stuck on Braize. And

  Reveal hidden contents

due to Taravangian's inability to find the Heralds' minds this time, I could see Autonomy deliberately trying to play both sides against each other, maybe trying to get Taravangian to believe her faux Herald avatar's actions are his Herald enemies and planning for that accordingly, thus keeping him and the Heralds focused on their conflict with each other while she further entrenches herself in Rosharan matters. 

OR for that matter....due to how the Heralds are hidden, likely even other Shards aren't able to totally pin them down, not just Retribution....meaning until their next Return, Kaladin's current status could be a COMPLETE cosmere-wide wildcard that nobody is actually prepared for. Like people with enough knowledge of the relevant mechanics might GUESS that for the Oathpact to be holding there has to be a tenth member of the reforged circle and nine wouldn't cut it, and Kaladin IS the most likely prospect, but that's not the same thing as knowing for sure. I'm just saying, given the mythical aspect Kaladin's reputation has taken on over the past five books, I'm amused by the thought that the recently deceased Kaladin might appear to Autonomy as the perfect figure to impersonate and claim as having elevated to some sort of spiritual/semi-divine status, leading her to create an Avatar in his image.....

And then cue the Return and Real!Kaladin shows up and he's like.....THAT DOESN'T EVEN LOOK LIKE ME. Is that what people think I look like?! The other Heralds, well used to their appearances being morphed over time in artistic depictions: Yeah that's rough buddy.

 

I agree, it would make perfect sense for Autonomy to do something like that. It might be something she's already done. But I wonder what religious figure she would use. On Skadriel she used one of the religions Preservation used to convey star maps down to Sazed for when he took up the powers to become Harmony. And there's a theory going around that Jaddeth on Sel is another of Autonomy's planted figures, one that I think is highly likely.

Honestly, I'd expected the shard of Odium to be defeated in book five with other shards being the problems going forward. Autonomy in particular would be a great villain, considering how she's operated so far.  

But I've had some time to think over what Taravangium (or whatever we're storming calling it) and I suspect it will function similar to Raysium, but instead of simply transporting investiture along the metal, it will somehow absorb investiture. Taravangian is so power hungry that this what he would want in a diving metal. 

 

[AquaRegia he/him]

On 1/10/2025 at 9:49 PM, Steel Speedster said:

Splitting harmonium requires trellium, which isn’t available on Roshar. Additionally, it may only have worked on harmonium due to its unstable nature.

I would like point out that just because we have seen ONE way to do something does not imply that's the ONLY way that thing can be done.  There might be any number of ways to split Harmonium.  Likewise, there may be many ways to split Retribution's godmetal.

Also, that WoB strongly implies that Taravangian could choose to produce Raysium if he wished.

[Dofurion]

2 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

Folks do realize Braize is named after Rayse, right? Same as Mraize?

And by "realize", I of course mean, that's my idea.

Sure, but taking into account what is shown in this book, this arose spontaneously, I mean it is a very easy train of thought to form.

-What is the name of the evil god who wants us dead?
-His name is Rayse
-Okay, and why did you say he doesn't kill us instantly?
-Because he is locked in the next planet/world
-Ah, do we have a name for that planet?
-No
-Let's call him Braize, I think it's a good name.

It seems to me to be a very plausible conversation that took place.

[1000CremlingsInATrenchcoat He/Him]

3 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I would like point out that just because we have seen ONE way to do something does not imply that's the ONLY way that thing can be done.  There might be any number of ways to split Harmonium.  Likewise, there may be many ways to split Retribution's godmetal.

Also, that WoB strongly implies that Taravangian could choose to produce Raysium if he wished.

Of course this is true, but it has been the case thusfar that nothing has mimicked the behaviour of godmetals all that closely. The godmetals work within the framework of all the extent magic in the Cosmere and so they could replicate other things. However, from a meta writing perspective, and based on how individualistic the Shards are, it's unlikely for a Shard to make their metal copy someone else's or do something that can be done by other magical means.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

9 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I would like point out that just because we have seen ONE way to do something does not imply that's the ONLY way that thing can be done.  There might be any number of ways to split Harmonium.  Likewise, there may be many ways to split Retribution's godmetal.

Also, that WoB strongly implies that Taravangian could choose to produce Raysium if he wished.

Yes. I did mention in my original post that there could be other ways. In that response, I was pointing out that we only know one way to split godmetal, and it is not applicable to Roshar.

And yeah, I think this discussion is pretty much resolved. If Sazed is capable of producing more lerasium, then Taravangian can produce Raysium.