Who would win a fight to the death Hoid or Vin

[saze He/Him]

Personally I think that Vin would win because of her access to raw investiture via the connection to preservation and his powers although if she had her earing in I think that would be an Immediate fail for her because that totally blocks her connection to preservation's powers but with Hoid's abilities of Yolish Lightweaving, Mistborn, Awakener, Lightweaving (Surgebinding), Soulcasting, Shardbearer, Elantrian, Worldhoping, Dawnshard holder (formerly), Ability to be immune to shardblades and others but the reason I think Hoid would lose is because even though Hoid has the ability because of the Dawnshard he held he is physically incapable of hurting people.

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have not read (whichever list is shorter) so that we can avoid spoilers (if necessary - or know they are not necessary). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful Forum info and tips. 

8 minutes ago, saze said:

Personally I think that Vin would win because of her access to raw investiture via the connection to preservation and his powers although if she had her earing in I think that would be an Immediate fail for her because that totally blocks her connection to preservation's powers but with Hoid's abilities of Yolish Lightweaving, Mistborn, Awakener, Lightweaving (Surgebinding), Soulcasting, Shardbearer, Elantrian, Worldhoping, Dawnshard holder (formerly), Ability to be immune to shardblades and others but the reason I think Hoid would lose is because even though Hoid has the ability because of the Dawnshard he held he is physically incapable of hurting people.

Neither - draw. Vin cannot kill or defeat Hoid. Hoid cannot fight back or hurt Vin. 

 

[Argenti he/him]

11 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have not read (whichever list is shorter) so that we can avoid spoilers (if necessary - or know they are not necessary). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful Forum info and tips. 

Neither - draw. Vin cannot kill or defeat Hoid. Hoid cannot fight back or hurt Vin. 

 

Yes, neither could kill the other, unless Vin is preservation, which he would probably still recover from, he's like a cockroach.

[alder24]

15 hours ago, saze said:

Personally I think that Vin would win because of her access to raw investiture via the connection to preservation and his powers although if she had her earing in I think that would be an Immediate fail for her because that totally blocks her connection to preservation's powers but with Hoid's abilities of Yolish Lightweaving, Mistborn, Awakener, Lightweaving (Surgebinding), Soulcasting, Shardbearer, Elantrian, Worldhoping, Dawnshard holder (formerly), Ability to be immune to shardblades and others but the reason I think Hoid would lose is because even though Hoid has the ability because of the Dawnshard he held he is physically incapable of hurting people.

If you consider Vin before Ascension, then my bet is on Hoid, because Hoid simply can't be killed with conventional means due to his Dawnshard powers. He can heal basically everything Vin could throw at him and while he can't hurt her (because he held a Dawnshard), he can outlast her and wait for her to die of old age while throwing insults and making weird faces. 

But if you consider Vin as the Vessel of Preservation, then neither can win - both are immortal, both can't hurt the other (Preservation's power is unable to hurt, except for a very special occasions like when Vin throw it to kill Ati to protect those she loved, which killed her in the process) - there would be no winners in this fight.

Spoiler

Tyran Amiros

What happened to Kwaan? I was half expecting to see him amongst the kandra First Generation.

Brandon Sanderson

Kwaan went into hiding, and he was eventually discovered and executed by Rashek. He wasn't among the First Generation, though he would have been if he hadn't turned against Rashek. Rashek kept the plate, however, just as he kept Alendi's logbook. Partially because even then, Rashek was going a little mad, but partially because of the reminders about his old life they contained.

Vegasdev

I'm assuming you meant Alendi hunted him down because he turned against Alendi. Or did Kwaan also turn against Rashek?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I meant that he turned against Rashek. Remember, the members of the First Generation were offered immortality in exchange for their Hemalurgy. They had to make this choice for all of the world's Feruchemists. Because his uncle had been the one who gave Rashek the chance to become the Lord Ruler in the first place, Rashek blessed him and included him in the decision. (Speaking directly into his mind along with the others during Rashek's moment of ascension.)

Kwaan was the only one who turned down this offer, calling it a betrayal of who they were as a people. Rashek could have just made him one anyway, but in a moment of anger, he tried to destroy Kwaan—which he couldn't do, not with Preservation's power. As the other Feruchemists changed, Kwaan remained the same. Rashek eventually hunted him down and killed him.

Footnote: Brandon likely means Feruchemy, here in place of Hemalurgy.
Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

[Raven Wilder]

Is there some way that a Hemalurgic spike could steal Hoid's immortality?

Not that Vin knows Hemalurgy, but at least knows it exists, and with enough time and enough willingness to repeatedly stab someone over and over ...

[Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him]

1 hour ago, Raven Wilder said:

Is there some way that a Hemalurgic spike could steal Hoid's immortality?

Not that Vin knows Hemalurgy, but at least knows it exists, and with enough time and enough willingness to repeatedly stab someone over and over ...

His immortality comes from having held a Dawnshard unless your able to spike his entire spirtweb he is going to regenerate as it comes from having a mutated soul not a active power.

[alder24]

20 hours ago, Raven Wilder said:

Is there some way that a Hemalurgic spike could steal Hoid's immortality?

Not that Vin knows Hemalurgy, but at least knows it exists, and with enough time and enough willingness to repeatedly stab someone over and over ...

It's not a singular ability coded in his Spirit Web like Allomancy or Feruchemy. His whole soul was warped and changed by him holding a Dawnshard for such a long period of time that he can heal basically anything. It's more similar to Savantism which can't be stolen with a spike. However Nomad in TSM was able to partially siphon a part of his Dawnshard Torment responsible for preventing him from causing harm, so who knows what can be stolen with a spike from Hoid. 

Spoiler

CealdishOrbLender

Can being an Allomantic Savant be transferred through Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

A Savant cannot be, good question. No one's asked me that before.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

[+robardin he/him]

On 1/10/2025 at 8:31 AM, alder24 said:

If you consider Vin before Ascension, then my bet is on Hoid, because Hoid simply can't be killed with conventional means due to his Dawnshard powers. He can heal basically everything Vin could throw at him and while he can't hurt her (because he held a Dawnshard), he can outlast her and wait for her to die of old age while throwing insults and making weird faces. 

I always think the "let them live to death" victory in a one-on-one involving an immortal being is an underplayed card. 

Also: isn't the whole "Hoid (or Nomad from The Sunlit Man) can't hurt another person as a Dawnshard side effect" related to the particular Dawnshard held, its imperative?

 

EXIST. Where hurting someone might end up causing them to, you know, not exist.

Do we know that "someone" who's held the Dawnshard of "CHANGE." would have the same taboo? Seems to me hurting or even killing someone would be a pretty big change effect.

Edited February 10, 2025 by robardin

[Treamayne]

On 2/10/2025 at 9:48 AM, robardin said:

Also: isn't the whole "Hoid (and Nomad) can't hurt another person as a Dawnshard side effect" related to the particular Dawnshard held?

WaT Spoilers

Spoiler

EXIST. Where hurting someone might end up causing them to, you know, not exist.

 

Please make sure to spoiler tag your information, or keep such discussion to the Spoiler Zone. 

Edited February 18, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG/Formatting

[+robardin he/him]

31 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Please make sure to spoiler tag your information, or keep such discussion to the Spoiler Zone. 

huh, ok, I'll spoiler it, but I thought the Cosmere forum was open for "all non WaT" works, and I carefully didn't reference anything from WaT

EDIT: oops, I see, I totally forgot where a tidbit of into came from

Edited February 10, 2025 by robardin

[alder24]

4 hours ago, robardin said:

Also: isn't the whole "Hoid (or Nomad from The Sunlit Man) can't hurt another person as a Dawnshard side effect" related to the particular Dawnshard held, its imperative?

This is most likely the case but we don't know for sure. 

[Qianweilian He/him]

My opinion is:

Does Vin hold preservation?

Y->Vin wins

N->Vin gets old and dies

[Duxredux he/him]

My vote is Hoid.

Vin is not particularly attached to immortality and perfectly content to go to The Beyond. She doesn't have huge far reaching objectives that require immortality either. Hoid can worldhop and hide just about anywhere in the Cosmere for a century or two, maybe more depending on if Vin has Ascended and she's hunting for him. Hoid has objectives and will see them through even if it means persisting for millennia, orchestrating the fall of Shards and watching worlds burn. Vin doesn't particularly want to participate in things like that, and is content to die and move on. If both decided the other needed to go down, I expect Hoid to succeed in engineering Vin's demise even if she held Preservation before she figured out how to permanently off him. Hoid has outlived at least 7 of the original 16 Shards which says a lot considering how many of them would like to swat him.

[Terrisman]

Hoid cannot hurt Vin but cannot be killed by her as well. But Vin can die so the only possibility is that she somehow does something which would end up killings herself

[+robardin he/him]

2 hours ago, Terrisman said:

Hoid cannot hurt Vin but cannot be killed by her as well. But Vin can die so the only possibility is that she somehow does something which would end up killings herself

This is the biggest flaw with a what-if PvP Deathmatch between Hoid and any living, mortal, non-Shard character in the Cosmere that we've seen so far...

Hoid could not hurt his opponent, but also could not be killed by his opponent. So the only winning scenario, if it truly was played out "to the death", would be the "outlive his opponent to death" one, which is pretty boring.

And Hoid's got better things to do. He would just concede or run away and get to doing them.

EDIT: ...assuming it's not Szeth wielding Nightblood. Or I suppose, anybody else wielding Nightblood. Per WoB, "Hoid would stay far away" from Nightblood. It's not a confirmation of "Nightblood would kill Hoid" from Brandon, but in-world, Hoid strongly suspects the possibility.

Edited February 18, 2025 by robardin