It's been a few days, and I'm still annoyed...

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

I had very few complaints about WaT. I really enjoyed it, and I also look forward to going back and rereading SA 1-5 to pick apart things that I've missed repeatedly for 10 years.

That said, I've waited a while to see if I would get less annoyed by a particular editorial decision, and I'm not. So, I feel like it needs to be said. 

Why did Taln fight OFF SCREEN??!!??!?!?!?!?!

I have been waiting a decade to watch that man cut loose, and the second he does, the "camera" pans away to Adolin???? Come on Brandon...Why dude? Whyyyyyyyyyyy?

Ok. I guess that felt somewhat cathartic. I feel a little better. Thanks for coming to my rant. 

 

P.S. I still don't understand why Taln wasn't bonded to his Honorblade, even though it had been taken from him. Shouldn't he have been the main herald who was still bonded to his? In a way, I'm glad that he wasn't, because if that fight had happened with him having his blade in hand, I'd have thrown my book across the room. So at least we were spared that indignity

Edited January 16, 2025 by JohnnyKaizen

[Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him]

I seeing Taln fight would have simply been too awesome. It would overshadow the rest of the book as nothing could compare. Honestly it's such a missed opportunity Brandon must been waiting till the back half where we can see him fight at full power and watch him solo the whole Cosmere.

Here is a theory: Taln at some point will take up Valor and save Harmony from a attack by Retribution. I don't think this exact scenario will happen but I'm not sure there is a better candidate for Valor then Taln and the current Valor isn't doing crap when it comes to helping (not very valorous of them).

[Returned he/him]

I think that it was the right decision. Stormlight isn't exactly lacking in awesome fights and is already bloated with each individual character getting their own showdown focus. I thought that Oathbringer had that issue in the Battle of Thaylen City-- the pacing was thrown off by including every major character's everything: the odds against them at the start, the promising beginning, the loss of momentum, the moment in which all hope is lost, then the rally, then the tide turning in their favor, then the cool poses and dramatic dialogue, then the victory, all done for each and every character interpolated between each other. It felt choppy to me and made the whole event feel more formulaic than was the case in the battle at the Shattered Plains towards the end of Words of Radiance.

I feel that Wind and Truth had a somewhat worse issue with this due to the 10-day, parallel story structure, though it was helped by some of the events being non-combat and featuring some degree of downtime. Taln is awesome, but would narration of his fight be different from Kaladin's or Szeth's in most of its particulars? He faces a sea of enemies, dodges blows, strikes down opponents, takes wounds along the way, and so on. I did like seeing the scale of destruction and its impact on the siege, and there was some thematic niceness to a Herald (especially Taln) doing so much for humanity without the beneficiaries witnessing it, or even knowing about it aside from its effects.

All that said, I would have swapped out one of Sigzil's sections at the Shattered Plains to buy space for Taln's battle. It would have been cooler and more interesting to me.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

36 minutes ago, Returned said:

I feel that Wind and Truth had a somewhat worse issue with this due to the 10-day, parallel story structure, though it was helped by some of the events being non-combat and featuring some degree of downtime. Taln is awesome, but would narration of his fight be different from Kaladin's or Szeth's in most of its particulars? He faces a sea of enemies, dodges blows, strikes down opponents, takes wounds along the way, and so on. I did like seeing the scale of destruction and its impact on the siege, and there was some thematic niceness to a Herald (especially Taln) doing so much for humanity without the beneficiaries witnessing it, or even knowing about it aside from its effects.

All that said, I would have swapped out one of Sigzil's sections at the Shattered Plains to buy space for Taln's battle. It would have been cooler and more interesting to me.

I get what you're saying..but Taln ripping fused apart with his bare hands, while getting stabbed 47 times? Yeah, I think that would have been different. I think I'm mostly bothered because I've known all this time that Taln is the most OP fighter in the Cosmere who isn't a Shard Vessel, and when he got up to crush the enemy, I would have liked to see him do the crushing. It's fine for the most part, but I very much expect some Taln chapters dedicated to him in all his fighting prowess in 6-10.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Why did Taln fight OFF SCREEN??!!??!?!?!?!?!

If I had to guess (and my personal take at the time of reading) was because of Chapter 109. My first take was like yours - why was this off-screen. but then we get to:

Spoiler

Kaladin trying to fight Nale and being entirely outclassed because Heralds have physical enhancements far beyond what basic Stormlight gives a Radiant.

Showing Taln's fight would both display things he is trying to keep back for Taln's flashback book, and spoil that reveal in Ch 109.

Do I like it? No. Can I understand why he made the decision he did? Yes.
It's in-line with a similar cut-aways in one of his earliest books (Minor Spoilers)

Spoiler

Mistborn TFE (minor spoilers):

Spoiler

Annotations to the Prologue

Quote

By the way, Joshua–my agent–pushed until the end to get me to put the Kelsier action sequence in-scene, rather than having it happen off-screen. I resisted. Allomancy is a very complicated magic system, and my writing relies on the reader understanding how Allomancy works in order to provide action. I didn’t want to slow the story down right here by giving an extended explanation of the magic. Instead, I just wanted to show the effects of what Kelsier can do. Later (chapter six, I think) we’ll actually see how he does them.

Annotation to Ch 2

Quote

Joshua, by the way, also pushed for an action scene here–where Kelsier grabs the Inquisitor’s attention and runs. I do take most of Joshua’s suggestions. In fact, his desire to have an action scene earlier in this book is the biggest bit of advice by him I can think of that I haven’t taken. I just really felt that I needed more time to ease into Allomancy before I could do justice to an action scene. Actually, I think a fast scene like that would actually slow the book down, since I’d have to spend so much time explaining.

 

 

Edit: I think it would be awesome if this scene is one of Taln's flashback chapters when we get there - to both have this fight, and from Taln's PoV:

• The haze of dementia - barely understanding the world around him.
• The change to sharp focus due to Abidi-the-generic-villain's stupidity. 
• The crushing storm of the Bearer of Agonies Unleashed

Yeah, I can look forward to that.

Edited January 9, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

17 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The change to sharp focus due to Abidi-the-generic-villain's stupidity. 

 my word did that make me giggle.

I honestly feel, in line with what you've written, that Abidi, and by extension the unnamed, or under referenced, Fused suffer due to lack of context. We know Leshwi somewhat, but not really when it comes to her specific motivations, hopes, and dreams for Singers and Roshar. We knew Lezian's deal, because it was pretty simplistic and straight forward. Raboniel, we got to know pretty well, and to see why she went to the lengths that she did. Finally, we're getting to know Mishram (which was the most pleasant surprise in WaT for me), and will know her more whenever we get around to SA6. But Adidi and to a smaller extent El, feel less than they should be due to lack of information. Though El shows that he is always considering, and in many cases, considerate of those around him..be they Singer, Listener, human, or spren. He doesn't necessarily care about them, but he considers. Abidi doesn't consider much of anything..ever (except when to run and hide because he messed up so badly).

And yeah, if I was reading SA6 in 2-4 years, I would have minded the off-screen fight, less. I do understand why Brandon did it, I just don't want to. I'd rather pout a bit because even though it makes sense in both pacing and personal writing style for Brandon, I still waited a decade to see this titan of a Herald cut loose, and didn't actually get to see it. And to some extent, I feel short-changed. Feelings aren't always rational, and I acknowledge that. I'll probably get over it relatively soon, and making this post helps as well.

I do hope that we get to see that fight scene as a flashback as well, for both Taln and Ash. Because it's the first time in 4500 years that Taln has had full control of his senses, and it's the first time in at least 1000 years that Ash has. Also the first time in 4500 years that she felt able to fight back, and that's pretty awesome. I love to see progress made by broken people, who become more whole as the take the next step (and then the next and so on) toward healing.

[Darvys]

Even if we didn't see the action, I wish the lead up to it at least was viewed through Taln's pov, it would have been enough for me. I don't think it'll have nearly the same weight in a flashback, since by then I expect we'll be far more familiar with their abilities, we can already extrapolate enough from Nale's performance, the shock factor is gone, seeing it revealed through Taln's eyes would have been something else entirely.

Don't get me started on Abidi though, way to make Taravangian look incompetent for appointing this imbecile to command the army, he had the city, all he had to do was sit in his aluminum cage for a couple hours, but no, the plot demands a loss, so the fused's stupidity and Adolin's immersion breaking plot armor delivered.

[LuckyJim]

I thought it worked. Taln as a character is basically an empty vessel at this point, his fight scene would just be fanservice and the book is already bloated as is.

[Zacky_Gates93]

It doesn't lessen the blow of not seeing the epic fight, but we know Taln will be the focus of book 9. Perhaps Brandon is waiting to unleash that for us until era 2. But regardless, he purposefully had all of us miss out.

[Ailvara]

I'm really glad it was off-screen. It gave it the shroud of mystery, some terrifying quality that spelling out the details would take away from. The shock of seeing the outcome without knowing what in Damnation had happened, that was more awesome than any fight scene could be. And we'll sure still get to see some of Taln's in a more appropriate moment.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

17 hours ago, Ailvara said:

I'm really glad it was off-screen. It gave it the shroud of mystery, some terrifying quality that spelling out the details would take away from. The shock of seeing the outcome without knowing what in Damnation had happened, that was more awesome than any fight scene could be. And we'll sure still get to see some of Taln's in a more appropriate moment.

I get why you feel that way, and for many folks, that's absolutely the truth. For me, I've been imagining just what Taln can do for years and years. I was ready to see what exactly he can do. And honestly, seeing what he can do with his bear hands vs what he can do with his shardblade is probably worlds apart. I personally would have enjoyed the on screen introduction to the greatest warrior in the Cosmere, this go round. It didn't happen though, so I'll just have to wait the 6-10 years to get back to it.

[#1 Taln Fan he/him]

I'm sure this comes as a surprise to no one, but I have some thoughts on this subject:

I feel somewhat conflicted about this scene still, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm happy with it. Trust me, I want to see him fight more (or as much) as anyone, but ultimately I think that the way Brandon did it worked better for the story. For one thing, I think it would've put too much of a spotlight on Taln during a sequence that's more about Adolin, and to some extent Yawnagawn. Brandon plans to write a Taln-focused book in book 9, and there will be plenty of time for Taln to take up the spotlight then.

I also feel like Brandon is intentionally saving that first showing of Taln's fighting skills for his book/flashbacks, and showing the fight here would take away from that coolness later on. It's a form of delayed gratification, where it sucks right now to not see him fight, but that little taste we got will make the moment when we finally see it even more awesome. And also just story-telling wise, it's just so badass to just see Adolin's PoV when he comes across the absolute carnage of the aftermath. The imagery is so good, and I feel that it wouldn't hit quite as hard if we saw Taln die from his PoV, then saw Adolin come across the corpse afterwards. 

That said, I would be a little more happy about it if we didn't have to wait 15-20 years till Taln's flashback book xD

[QuantumAce]

22 hours ago, Ailvara said:

I'm really glad it was off-screen. It gave it the shroud of mystery, some terrifying quality that spelling out the details would take away from. The shock of seeing the outcome without knowing what in Damnation had happened, that was more awesome than any fight scene could be.

It has elements of horror, where the mystery creates a more visceral reaction. Seeing the fight would have been super fun and cool, but the shock factor made it more impactful for me. 

3 hours ago, #1 Taln Fan said:

And also just story-telling wise, it's just so badass to just see Adolin's PoV when he comes across the absolute carnage of the aftermath. The imagery is so good, and I feel that it wouldn't hit quite as hard if we saw Taln die from his PoV, then saw Adolin come across the corpse afterwards. 

Coming from Adolin's PoV, with his pain and exhaustion definitely made it hit harder. 

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

It's because Brandon is keeping you in suspense for the back half of the series!