How did vin beat ruin with basically no destruction?

[Acolyte of Radiance]

Dalinar could maybe have beat odium, but it would have resulted in losing everyone he loves. Vin was distraught over elend , but people she cared about still lived and she killed ruin. This contradicts wind and truth.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

We can only speculate, but

• Preservation and Ruin may be members of different subgroups of Shards
• Preservation and Ruin had a special history together
• Their war had lasted longer
• Vin did a suicide attack

Generally speaking, the problem is not new. You should have asked why Sel still exists, too.

[Acolyte of Radiance]

They were interrupted by odium 

[RedBlue]

I think the idea is that because Preservation specifically was involved, there was no mass destruction.

Odium and Honor both have nothing against mass destruction, so there’s nothing to prevent it.

It’s all down to the Shardic Intents. 

[Ripheus23]

The description of Vin disappearing after colliding with Ati/Ruin makes me think that Preservation and Ruin enter into a sort of Light/anti-Light relation on some level. Not a comprehensive level, else Sazed could not hold them both (or he could but by keeping them separated on the appropriate level...). That, and/or the way that the Scadrial godmetals had been dispersed at that point was relevant; correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the destruction caused by Honor's attempt to battle Odium something that overlapped Odium's Shardpool? (I already gave my copy of W&T to a needy reader in my area so I don't know/can't check )

I mean, generally, I don't think Shardic power levels translate well into, say, DBZ-style power levels. Maybe the destructiveness doesn't always manifest initially as like a Shardic kamehameha hitting something, but more indirectly at first?

[Letryx13]

Nohadon mentions it in his chapter with Dalinar while they're having bread.  He mentions how one of the shards was specifically about preserving was why the planet wasn't wiped out in that case. Preservation was probably the only individual shard that could force a conflict like that without such a cataclysmic event as a result.

[alder24]

4 hours ago, Acolyte of Radiance said:

Dalinar could maybe have beat odium, but it would have resulted in losing everyone he loves. Vin was distraught over elend , but people she cared about still lived and she killed ruin. This contradicts wind and truth.

WaT ch 142:

Quote

“Powers like yours have clashed before without destructive results—but always then, one of the two wanted to preserve. When both want to destroy … it’s violent.”

It's about powers, not Vessels. The Shard of Honor wanted to destroy Odium and didn't care about Roshar and its people, the Shard of Preservation always wanted to Preserve people and Scadrial, so no matter how many times it clashed with Ruin, there was no destruction as part of his power was protecting the whole world (the power did this, not the Vessel).

[Letryx13]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

WaT ch 142:

It's about powers, not Vessels. The Shard of Honor wanted to destroy Odium and didn't care about Roshar and its people, the Shard of Preservation always wanted to Preserve people and Scadrial, so no matter how many times it clashed with Ruin, there was no destruction as part of his power was protecting the whole world (the power did this, not the Vessel).

I didn't remember the exact line. Interesting. It sounds like it happened more than once, so not just the time between Vin and Ati as Preservation and Ruin. Maybe Odium and Devotion? Or Devotion and Dominion?

[Sophrosyne He/any]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

It's about powers, not Vessels. The Shard of Honor wanted to destroy Odium and didn't care about Roshar and its people, the Shard of Preservation always wanted to Preserve people and Scadrial, so no matter how many times it clashed with Ruin, there was no destruction as part of his power was protecting the whole world (the power did this, not the Vessel).

58 minutes ago, Letryx13 said:

I didn't remember the exact line. Interesting. It sounds like it happened more than once, so not just the time between Vin and Ati as Preservation and Ruin. Maybe Odium and Devotion? Or Devotion and Dominion?

I could see both shards caring about their world. The whole 'if you destroy the planet what can you rule?' Covers Dominion and Devotion is supposed to be a love stand in. 
Nice catch Aldar!

[Aeshdan he/him]

Also, if you recall Scadrial was already tearing itself apart at the time: earthquakes, tsunamis, large parts of the ground catching on fire from the sunlight, etc. Very likely there was a significant amount of collateral damage from their clash, but it wasn't as remarked on because there was already an apocalypse going on at the time.

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

23 hours ago, Acolyte of Radiance said:

Dalinar could maybe have beat odium, but it would have resulted in losing everyone he loves. Vin was distraught over elend , but people she cared about still lived and she killed ruin. This contradicts wind and truth.

Scadrial was basically destroyed by the end of HoA, everyone would have died if Harmony didn't reshape the planet after Ascending.  

[Lord Spirit he/him]

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, vin killed ati, whereas honor was trying to destroy the shard of odium. The vessel is far less durable than the shard, so there was less destruction. 
 

It does seem odd to me though, because Nohadon’s line heavily implies that Honor didn’t care about preserving Roshar when fighting Odium, which he clearly does. Tanavast dies trying to make peace. The only thing I could think is that his desire to protect didn’t align with Honor’s intent enough to save Roshar. 

[Letryx13]

2 hours ago, Lord Spirit said:

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, vin killed ati, whereas honor was trying to destroy the shard of odium. The vessel is far less durable than the shard, so there was less destruction. 
 

It does seem odd to me though, because Nohadon’s line heavily implies that Honor didn’t care about preserving Roshar when fighting Odium, which he clearly does. Tanavast dies trying to make peace. The only thing I could think is that his desire to protect didn’t align with Honor’s intent enough to save Roshar. 

It's the intent of the shard that matters, not the vessel, when it comes to protecting. Dalinar cared about protecting Roshar, but the shard of Honor didn't. That's why the shattered plains were so messed up after Tanavast and Rayse fought there.  The shard of Preservation cared about protecting the people of Skadriel, not just Vin. And if I'm right and such clashes have happened before, then the shard of Devotion likely cared enough to prevent such destruction too.

[Aon Tia she/her]

13 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

The shard of Preservation cared about protecting the people of Skadriel, not just Vin. And if I'm right and such clashes have happened before, then the shard of Devotion likely cared enough to prevent such destruction too.

Agreed. And may be, shard of ambition did not, and that is why the effects of the clash was far more detrimental in the Threnodite system also. 

 

[MagicMaggot]

On 12/30/2024 at 10:58 PM, alder24 said:

WaT ch 142:

Quote

“Powers like yours have clashed before without destructive results—but always then, one of the two wanted to preserve. When both want to destroy … it’s violent.”

Just an idle thought on that... Shouldn't Honor be really easy to manipulate in that regard? Have the vessel swear to protect the planet and its people, and while the power might resent the oath, it would still be in its nature to try to keep it, wouldn't it?