The Survival Shard

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

Is the survival shard Reason?

In chapter 115 of Wind and Truth, Tanavast mentions that he can't locate Euridrius, Vessel of the Shard of Reason. This drew my eye; we know one shard, the survival shard, has hidden themself away but is reconsidering that policy. We know that Reason is hiding, and the shard of Reason seems to be a good fit for reconsideration of one's decisions. Reason also seems to me the most likely shard to consider that policy in the first place: reasonable concern about Rayse or Bavadin fits fairly well into the power's portfolio.

As such, I'm guessing that Reason is the survival shard. Discuss.

[logicless.bt]

It seems to be either Reason or Valor, but probably Reason.

Both were hidden from Odium initially. But Harmony was able to speak to Valor, and suggests that Hoid try to do so again. Additionally, Valor's disappearance seems somehow more complete than Reason's or more specialized toward Odium, since Taravangian was never able to locate her.

Since Harmony (and maybe Hoid) are unable to find Reason, it stands to reason (ha) that it is the survival shard.

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Ookla the Pretender said:

Is the survival shard Reason?

In chapter 115 of Wind and Truth, Tanavast mentions that he can't locate Euridrius, Vessel of the Shard of Reason. This drew my eye; we know one shard, the survival shard, has hidden themself away but is reconsidering that policy. We know that Reason is hiding, and the shard of Reason seems to be a good fit for reconsideration of one's decisions. Reason also seems to me the most likely shard to consider that policy in the first place: reasonable concern about Rayse or Bavadin fits fairly well into the power's portfolio.

As such, I'm guessing that Reason is the survival shard. Discuss.

Yes, I think it's Reason. At first there were two Shards Taravangian wasn't able to spot - one unknown and Valor. We know that Hoid, Harmony and Endowment can communicate with Valor, however Tanavast also was unable to locate Valor 7000 years ago. There is something sneaky going on with both of those Shards, but given the amount of WoBs we have about the Wisdom-like Shard and the survival Shard, I think it's Valor. There was another Shard who Brandon said never settled on any planet, maybe that's Valor. WaT ch 115:

Quote

ALL EXCEPT A FEW—LIKE EURIDRIUS, HOLDER OF REASON—WHO HAD VANISHED.
[...]
I WAS NOT. I MADE ONE FINAL ATTEMPT AT LOCATING VALOR, THE GREAT DRAGON GOD MEDELANTORIUS—AS SHE WAS A WARRIOR WHO WOULD SURELY JOIN ME. MEDELANTORIUS WAS NOT TO BE FOUND, UNFORTUNATELY. HAD ODIUM KILLED HER, AS HE HAD POOR AONA? VALOR WOULD NOT HAVE DIED EASILY. I WOULD DOUBTLESS HAVE FELT THOSE WAVES OF DEATH RIPPLE THROUGH THE COSMERE.

Can't find the first WoB about the Shard not on any planet.

Spoiler

Pagerunner (paraphrased)

Ambition, the Shard *inaudible*. Is that the one you previously referred to as not on a planet?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Ambition would fulfill that requirement, but that's not the one I was referring to.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

[Alisto]

I’ve always assumed Valor is the hiding shard, as “Discretion is the better part of valor.”

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

I assumed Reason was the one that wants to hide and survive. Valor I could see having hidden herself not for survival but some other reason. The Why of that is most interesting to speculate on. She notably seems to have hidden only from those on Roshar - communicating with Harmony and Endowment but not with Tanavast or Hoid who at the moment are on Roshar - could be a clue to her motives. It would also explain why Endowment tells Hoid that Valor doesn't want to talk to her - if there is concern of Odium or other Rosharan forces being able to see/and or interfere with her plans.

Could Valor be guarding something dangerous or important as this could fit with her intent? Maybe something Adonalsium left or something with the 4th moon? Could she have been waiting around to sneak attack/assassinate Odium if/when he tries to leave the planet?

[RedBlue]

20 minutes ago, Dreamwa1ker said:

Could Valor be guarding something dangerous or important as this could fit with her intent? Maybe something Adonalsium left or something with the 4th moon? Could she have been waiting around to sneak attack/assassinate Odium if/when he tries to leave the planet?

I’ve been thinking along the same lines.

Valor’s Intent is all about courage in battle. Tanavast calls her a warrior. That doesn’t mesh with a Shard who goes into hiding for self-preservation. Shouldn’t the Shard’s power demand that she go and find (or pick) a fight? How has the Vessel resisted the Intent for 7000 years? Why make limited contact with select other Shards?

But if she’s hiding as part of some master plan to spring a trap on a problem Shard at the opportune moment, then I understand how her Intent aligns with her actions. That leaves Reason as the Shard who is hiding for self-preservation.

I don’t know if this has something to do with the fourth moon. I’m inclined to think not, since it would be too obvious a hiding place. Odium must have taken a close look at the stuff around his Perpendicularity at some point, and surely he would have recognised another Shard.

[Quantus he/him]

32 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I’ve been thinking along the same lines.

Valor’s Intent is all about courage in battle. Tanavast calls her a warrior. That doesn’t mesh with a Shard who goes into hiding for self-preservation. Shouldn’t the Shard’s power demand that she go and find (or pick) a fight? How has the Vessel resisted the Intent for 7000 years? Why make limited contact with select other Shards?

But if she’s hiding as part of some master plan to spring a trap on a problem Shard at the opportune moment, then I understand how her Intent aligns with her actions. That leaves Reason as the Shard who is hiding for self-preservation.

I don’t know if this has something to do with the fourth moon. I’m inclined to think not, since it would be too obvious a hiding place. Odium must have taken a close look at the stuff around his Perpendicularity at some point, and surely he would have recognised another Shard.

Unless the means of "hiding" was arguably more dangerous/frightening/challenging and was intended to do something, a sort of Training Arc?  

What if the "Hiding" Shard is the one that distributed themselves into a Race to experience all of Human experience?  According to Fake-Hoid, the Iraili could be considered "Raw Investiture, propped up and speaking like a sock on a child's hand" like he was.  So what if they are literally just extensions of the Shard, thousands of minor Avatar's that dont know their true nature?  What if a Shard came to the classic "It's not about the Land it's about the People" conclusion and invested themselves into a race instead of a planet.  

If it's Reason, their motivation could be the Experience itself, to Learn from every Perspective possible.  If it's Valor Im guessing it's more of a training arc or a battle plan, putting themselves at risk to quietly gather Experiences and Connections (and maybe even Powers) from across the entire Cosmere.  At least one Iraili Bonded a Spren and intended to try to follow the caravan as far as they could, so they should have been able to make it to the next world (even if their surges may not have any local fuel).  

[Ewery1]

2 hours ago, Alisto said:

I’ve always assumed Valor is the hiding shard, as “Discretion is the better part of valor.”

This is a Shakespearean quote which means “discretion is better than valor because you are less likely to die”. They are placed as opposites within this context, so it doesn’t make sense for Valor to be hiding vis-a-vis this quote.

[Quantus he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ewery1 said:

This is a Shakespearean quote which means “discretion is better than valor because you are less likely to die”. They are placed as opposites within this context, so it doesn’t make sense for Valor to be hiding vis-a-vis this quote.

I dont know, I could see Valor getting broken down into different (possibly even contradictory) interpretations just like the Orders did for Honor, with some physical representations.  A faction or spren-like representation of the patient, stealthy, and strategic combatant, your quiet killers and guerrilla warriors, for example, could still be seen as Valorous.    

[Ewery1]

Just now, Quantus said:

I dont know, I could see Valor getting broken down into different (possibly even contradictory) interpretations just like the Orders did for Honor, with some physical representations.  A faction or spren-like representation of the patient, stealthy, and strategic combatant, your quiet killers and guerrilla warriors, for example, could still be seen as Valorous.    

Yeah I agree with you there, but I don’t think the Shard itself would go into permanent hiding unless it was in a particularly courageous place (guarding something, sneak attack, etc). I’m a fan of the Valor is on Roshar, hiding WITHIN Odium’s perpendicularity, shrouded by the duralumin 4th moon theory.

[alder24]

22 hours ago, Ewery1 said:

Yeah I agree with you there, but I don’t think the Shard itself would go into permanent hiding unless it was in a particularly courageous place (guarding something, sneak attack, etc). I’m a fan of the Valor is on Roshar, hiding WITHIN Odium’s perpendicularity, shrouded by the duralumin 4th moon theory.

I doubt it. Odium would be aware of this - it's his perpendicularity after all and he made a great effort trying to recapture it. Also Ishar and Mishram use it to Ascend to Odium's power, they might have felt something else hiding there. Moreover, we saw how Shardic presence within a perpendicularity affects the Physical Realm - investiture of that Shard starts leaking around it. There was a black Mist around Preservation's perpendicularity, there would be a new type of investiture around Odium's perpendicularity and it would be obvious it's not of three known Shards to anyone looking at it. Perpendicularity on its own leaks investiture into the surrounding area (like Endowment's shardpool leaks investiture that feeds the jungle on Nalthis) so the investiture used by Chasmfieds for their transformation is Odium's investiture leaking from his perpendicularity, not some hidden Shard's one. 

HoA ch 14 epigraphs:

Quote

Ruin's consciousness was trapped by the Well of Ascension, kept mostly impotent. That night, when we discovered the Well for the first time, we found something we didn't understand. A black smoke, clogging one of the rooms.

Though we discussed it after the fact, we couldn't decide what that was. How could we possibly have known?

The body of a god—or, rather, the power of a god, since the two are really the same thing. Ruin and Preservation inhabited power and energy in the same way a person inhabits flesh and blood.

 

Spoiler

Vegasdev

The other lake in Alendi's bumps?

Brandon Sanderson

A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two. The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground. (Note that the Well is a very similar manifestation. You've also seen one other manifestation like this....)

[...]

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Is there a similar relationship between Endowment and Hallandren's jungle as there is between Harmony and Elendel Basin ?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes and no. The flowers are being fed by something that's very similar to what you might find on other planets. So the ground is saturated with something that is having a similar effect as Elendel Basin. But it's not the same thing. Elendel Basin was just crafted really, really well, and then it was endowed with a little bit of extra oomph. Here [in Hallandren's jungle], we have this extra seeping into the ground from the pool, which is saturated around and causing the flowers and causing what's going on there.

SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013)