Zackarcanum he/him Posted October 22, 2024 Posted October 22, 2024 Ok totally random thought and probably spoken about before but i personally think that Hoid is really like an avatar/ cognitive shadow, or whatever you wanna call it- but hes really adolnasium. hes the defense fallback that adolnasium created in case he gets splintered, and he integrated with everyone knowing they would shatter his actual self but needing to be a part of it so he can fix the inevitable outcome. thats why he goes from world to world, I king up little pieces of power from each one in the hopes of reuniting them all. all thoughts appreciated 1
OOKLA_the LIV She/They/Lesbian/hungry Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 I think he said something about going where he was needed to Dalinar in Stormlight, like he didn ´ t know for sure why he was there... this could be where he could get the most power, or maybe he is just drawn to the more active Shards, like Odium on the rise in Wok and WoR. Or the little shadow of his previous self drags him around looking for the other shards.
Treamayne Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 Thank you for the intro post, please consider mentioning if there are any books you have not yet read, so we can avoid spoilers, if necessary. Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for tips and tricks, like avoiding a double-post through use of Multi-quote and other techniques like searching WoBs on the Arcanum. 1 hour ago, Zackarcanum said: Ok totally random thought and probably spoken about before but i personally think that Hoid is really like an avatar/ cognitive shadow, or whatever you wanna call it- but hes really adolnasium. hes the defense fallback that adolnasium created in case he gets splintered, and he integrated with everyone knowing they would shatter his actual self but needing to be a part of it so he can fix the inevitable outcome. thats why he goes from world to world, I king up little pieces of power from each one in the hopes of reuniting them all. all thoughts appreciated Interesting theory, but Hoid was one of the people that Splintered Adonalsium, he just didn't take up a Shard (he was a different kind of Vessel at one point). WoBs: Spoiler Quote Zas678 (paraphrased) How about a confirmation one? We have a secondhand report from Miyabi actually, that says that Hoid was at the Shattering of Adonalsium. Was he there? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes he was. Writing for Charity Conference (March 17, 2012) Quote Questioner Probably a question you are not going to want to answer but how old is Hoid? Brandon Sanderson How old is Hoid? ...Hoid is older than the Shattering of Adonalsium. Hey there is an answer for you! He is very old. Firefight Seattle Public Library signing (Jan. 7, 2015) Quote Questioner Whats up with Hoid? He's not a Shard. Is he good? Evil? Indifferent? I'm starting to question whats going on with him. Brandon Sanderson He has his own unique motivations. There are definitely people who would call him good and definitely people who would call him evil. He was around at the Shattering of Adonalsium but is not a Shardholder or a Vessel for a Shard of Adonalsium. Barnes & Noble B-Fest 2016 (June 11, 2016) Quote harsh20483 Leras mentioned something like Cephandrius had the choice/chance to take up a Shard but declined. So was the Shattering an event that was predicted to happen so that people like Leras, Ati, Rayse, etc to be present at that time to pick up the Shards after the Shattering. Brandon Sanderson There's more to it than that, but some of what you say is close. General Reddit 2016 (Dec. 6, 2016) Quote Questioner So, Hoid was there during the Shattering of Adonalsium. Odium is going around, like, destroying other Shards. We know that Hoid is collecting and has pieces of some of the other Shards. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Since Hoid was there at the original Shattering of Adonalsium. Is there an echo image of the original Adonalsium in Hoid? Brandon Sanderson Uh, that's a RAFO. Here's your card. But it is a valid theory. Questioner I have a two-parter on that. Brandon Sanderson You can ask me the next part, but it is a RAFO. Questioner Is his end goal trying to join as many pieces of Adonalsium together to *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson Um, that, I will give a "that's a very good guess." And that is what the books seem to indicate is happening. Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017) Quote Kalinque Wait, Hoid can't eat meat, despite the fact that he loves bacon? That poor, poor man. Makes me wonder if this extends to Soulcast meat, though. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's usually part of the joke when I mention his love for it. There's a cognitive aspect to it, though--but whenever he's around food, you'll often note him acting a little oddly. kaggzz So does that mean he was extra mean to the Alethi because he had to show up to all their feasts as Wit? Brandon Sanderson No, taking on the Wit persona was his choice. neonmarkov Is that inability to eat meat and harm people related to the Intent of the Dawnshard he took up? Is he like a Sliver in a way? Brandon Sanderson RAFO, I'm afraid. But these are the right questions to be asking. Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020) Quote Brandon Sanderson Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer canon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.) And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point. Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020) When we eventually get to the Dragonsteel series (likely after Stormlight Archive 10) we will get back to Hoid's origin story. Dragonsteel Prime is available now - but it is no longer Canon. Hope that helps 1
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 An interesting thought, but I don't see it for reasons that might be come canonical in the future. Plus he was present at the Shattering. Are you suggesting that Adonalsium created an avatar of themself before the Shattering, helped others (at least 16 others) shatter themself, was offered a chance to take up one of the 16 but didn't even though their plan via Hoid was to reunite the 16?
+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zackarcanum said: Ok totally random thought and probably spoken about before but i personally think that Hoid is really like an avatar/ cognitive shadow, or whatever you wanna call it- but hes really adolnasium. hes the defense fallback that adolnasium created in case he gets splintered, and he integrated with everyone knowing they would shatter his actual self but needing to be a part of it so he can fix the inevitable outcome. thats why he goes from world to world, I king up little pieces of power from each one in the hopes of reuniting them all. all thoughts appreciated Whoa. Opening up by trying to predict reveals that aren't due for 20+ years is a very bold move, well done. All I can add here is that: 1. It seems entirely plausible to me at this point that Adonalsium was able to see the shattering coming and either could not, or simply chose not to, stop it. 2. If a Shard can architect an avatar, then Adonalsium could definitely have architected a better avatar. (If they had wanted to) 3. Hoid seems to specifically work to avoid picking up the Investiture of Shards who's magic systems override personal autonomy (small a) or directly damage the user's soul. So, he pretty much carries no representation of Ruin's power within his body. (And, it's been a long time since I read Elantris, but I think he wasn't super hyped on Dominion either? I'm not totally sure on that one, please don't quote me unless you double-check) Now...that said, those points do not disprove your proposal. Ruin is primarily known for his Hemalurgy, buuuut...those Southerners Medallions reek of blood magic if you ask me, and Hoid is willing to use them as long as it's always only someone else's soul being excised or damaged. Sooooo...maybe! Hoid was definitely present when and where he was for a reason. Edited October 23, 2024 by hwiles 1
alder24 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 12 hours ago, Zackarcanum said: Ok totally random thought and probably spoken about before but i personally think that Hoid is really like an avatar/ cognitive shadow, or whatever you wanna call it- but hes really adolnasium. hes the defense fallback that adolnasium created in case he gets splintered, and he integrated with everyone knowing they would shatter his actual self but needing to be a part of it so he can fix the inevitable outcome. thats why he goes from world to world, I king up little pieces of power from each one in the hopes of reuniting them all. all thoughts appreciated Interesting idea, but Hoid is not an Avatar nor a Cognitive Shadow of Adonalsium. He was one of the people who killed Adonalsium and we have a WoB confirming he's not an Avatar. He's not Adonalsium because he killed him with 16 other people who later Ascended. He even was offered a Shard during the Shattering, but he refused to take it (Stormlight letters mentioned this). However, he seems to regret taking part in the Shattering and his ultimate goal is to "make that which once was," which probably is about restoring Adonalsium. Having invested art of the Shard you want to Ascend helps you Ascending, so that might be the reason why he's collecting all invested arts - but this isn't certain at this moment in time. Spoiler Questioner Is Hoid an avatar from Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson No. Good question. He is independent. Questioner He's human, but he's more than human? He's changed from all the places he's been? Brandon Sanderson Even before that he's not exactly one hundred percent human anymore. But he's his own agent. He's not an avatar of somebody. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017) Spoiler DCD328 [Personalization Request] To Hoid, with a message that hints at his quest. Brandon Sanderson To make that which once was. General Signed Books 2018 (Jan. 3, 2018) Spoiler Ravi Can any person absorb a Shard? Or do they have to be somewhat "magical"? (Like Vin and SazeD) Brandon Sanderson One does not have to be somewhat magical, so to speak, but it does help. /r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 15, 2013) 1
CtrlAltDepressed Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 4 hours ago, alder24 said: He's not Adonalsium because he killed him with 16 other people who later Ascended. He even was offered a Shard during the Shattering, but he refused to take it I agree with you here, but I would like to point out that Brandon has never explicitly said that Hoid isn't Adonalsium. He has said that Hoid was present at the shattering which Ado was also present for, and we've never seen hoid and Ado in the same room.... Mostly joking. The comments from Hoid in Tress indicate pretty thoroughly that Hoid is not Ado, and participated in Ado death. But there is always the possibility for Brandon to tweak the details so both things are true. Complete Hypothetical: Ado makes a copy of himself that is Hoid. He is raising Hoid as a sort of son. Hoid turns against Ado and helps kill him. He has had thousands of years to mature and see the effects of his decisions and has matured to closer to what Ado was. In this scenario, Hoid is not Ado, but he kind of is? Vasher believes that Cognitive Shadows are copies, and not the actual person, and this could be something very similar.
Zackarcanum he/him Posted October 28, 2024 Author Posted October 28, 2024 On 10/23/2024 at 3:58 AM, Treamayne said: Thank you for the intro post, please consider mentioning if there are any books you have not yet read, so we can avoid spoilers, if necessary. Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for tips and tricks, like avoiding a double-post through use of Multi-quote and other techniques like searching WoBs on the Arcanum. Interesting theory, but Hoid was one of the people that Splintered Adonalsium, he just didn't take up a Shard (he was a different kind of Vessel at one point). WoBs: Hide contents When we eventually get to the Dragonsteel series (likely after Stormlight Archive 10) we will get back to Hoid's origin story. Dragonsteel Prime is available now - but it is no longer Canon. Hope that helps Ive read all his books. The fact that hoid was there by the shattering doesn’t mean hes not adolnasium- lets assume adolnasium knew of there plans and then created hoid to be part of them at his shattering, acting as a deep agent. 1
+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted October 28, 2024 Posted October 28, 2024 25 minutes ago, Zackarcanum said: Ive read all his books. The fact that hoid was there by the shattering doesn’t mean hes not adolnasium- lets assume adolnasium knew of there plans and then created hoid to be part of them at his shattering, acting as a deep agent. We won't know for sure for ages and ages in that case unfortunately I would, however, suspect hoid of probably operating independently from Adonalsium's direct command or stated will to him though during the Shattering, as Hoid, despite having an uncanny way of always, seemingly intuitively, knowing what to do and when, does still demonstrate ignorance (simple lack of understanding) on occasion, as well as an aversion to some of Adonalsium's creations that I wouldn't expect to be baked into any "true" Avatar. If he keeps gathering power indefinitely, I suppose he might eventually be functionally indistinguishable from one though!
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