Could Nahel Bonds heal the Heralds?

[TruthMisting]

We know that Kaladin will spend a good amount of his time in this book trying to heal both Szeth and Ishar, we also know that he is aware that the problem with the Heralds is supernatural in nature. Perhaps Kal, with Szeth's help will come to the conclusion that Nahel Bonds are the way to heal the Heralds.

We know the minds of Heralds become clearer when oaths are spoken, this is the current plan to give Ishar a moment of clarity when Szeth completes his 4th ideal, and probably when Kaladin speaks the 5th

We also know Nale is the only Herald that joined his order of Radiants and he's also the one that seems the most okay. Ishar is insane, Kalek has battle shock, Taln is unresponsive, Ash has issues with her image, every single one that we have seen is not at a 100% except Nale? I mean, looking back I can't think of a moment where he wasn't logical. He conforms to his ideals and respects the Law, his belief that Radiants would bring Odium back seems unfounded but it might not be, Eshonai seeing Kaladin Surgebind did initiate the process of the Everstorm, and his reason at joining Odium, the singers, and following the only god around, is also logical, we've been attributing it to insanity but it might just be his thought process. He was on the battlefield against the Radiants regularly for a year right? And are we to believe that not one Radiant spoke an oath near him giving him time to reconsider? at the very least he seems the one that is least suffering from mental ailment, perhaps that is because of the Nahel bond. If speaking oaths around Heralds heal them, what about them speaking oaths?

We've assigned Ash as a Dustbringer thanks to the POV character list, so she is most likely going to get a bond soon and Taln would be the only non radiant on the list on POV characters, he has the right powers assuming he gets back/maybe still has his Honorblade, but everyone else is or should become Radiant, so him bonding a Peakspren seems likely to me.

And, we might have a peakspren floating around looking for a bond. Peakspren hide in stones and Kal has a random stone in his pack, something that could have to do with Fortune and Connection thanks to Dalinar or it could be a peakspren in disguise. The quartermaster is suprised at the rock but not the horse afterall, and Tien never handed Kal the rock, only the horse. Kal is on a journey to heal a hearld, what if, somehow, Taln ends up at Shinovar with him and ends up bonding the Peakspren that was trying to (maybe)bond Kal instead

Thoughts?

[therunner he/him]

You call Nale sane? Really?

His insanity is in that he is obsessed with obeying letter of the law to exclusion of all else, and feels nothing. He is more insane than Kalak who at least acknowledges he is in bad mental state. Nale has to be practically beaten over the head with Everstorm to understand he made a mistake in hunting down Radiants...and immediately makes another in joining Odium through legal loophole.

Nale as he used to be (as we see in flashback/vision) advocated for mercy and flexibility, since law is not moral in and of itself. He would hate the man he has become.

As such, no Nahel bond won't heal Heralds. If anything it might make them worse, if the spren encourage their worst tendencies (i.e. Highspren encouraging Nale to be hyper literal).

Edited September 25, 2024 by therunner

[BinarySecond]

I think the scariest part of Nale is that he's bloody mental but seems relatively oblivious about it.

He's engaging in a war against the descendants of a people because their ancestors messed up. Sins of the father inherited absolutely. 

 

Except in his most lucid moments which are rare and related to Radiant oaths. Made by others - It could be related to the burst of investiture that occurs but when Navani became a Bondsmith it helped Ishar hundreds of miles away. (Or was it Kaladin? Either way, the distance is the same)

 

I'd love to know why another swearing an oath provides respite for the heralds.

[Alcatur]

46 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I think the scariest part of Nale is that he's bloody mental but seems relatively oblivious about it.

He's engaging in a war against the descendants of a people because their ancestors messed up. Sins of the father inherited absolutely. 

No, its not even that. He doesn't claim it is in the name of Parshendi (btw the common assumption that humans stole land from Singers and attacked them first is actually not well founded).

His reasoning is "law of conquest". King must answer to god - Odium won between gods  by right of conquest, that makes him and his forces the rightful owners of this land.

Justice, or restoration of Singers as a right thing is absent of his reasoning. Its not "sins of the fathers" its literal - I dunno, hard to even explain. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by Alcatur

[alder24]

8 hours ago, TruthMisting said:

We also know Nale is the only Herald that joined his order of Radiants and he's also the one that seems the most okay. Ishar is insane, Kalek has battle shock, Taln is unresponsive, Ash has issues with her image, every single one that we have seen is not at a 100% except Nale? I mean, looking back I can't think of a moment where he wasn't logical.

Just no. Even he admits his mind isn't to be trusted anymore. He's insane, just as others, his insanity is manifested by the lack of emotions and extreme zeal in executing the law to the very letter. He's not doing well at all. Nahle Bond can't help Heralds regain their sanity. Edgedancer ch 19:

Quote

“I am sorry I must do this,” Darkness said. “Once I would have welcomed you as a sister.”
“No,” Lift said. “You’re not really sorry, are you? Can you even feel something like sorrow?”
He stopped in the hallway, sphere still gripped before him for light. He actually seemed to be considering her question.
[...]
“There are many useful emotions.”
“Which you totally feel, all the time.”
“Of course I do.…” He trailed off, and again seemed to be considering what she’d said. He cocked his head.

OB ch 106:

Quote

“We will endeavor to be as passionless and logical as you, aboshi.”
Nin laughed. It didn’t seem to carry the mirth that it should have. “Me? No, Szeth-son-Neturo. I am hardly passionless. This is the problem.” He paused, staring out the window at the distant ships. “I am … different from how I once was. Worse, perhaps? Despite all that, a part of me wishes to be merciful.”

 

8 hours ago, TruthMisting said:

And are we to believe that not one Radiant spoke an oath near him giving him time to reconsider?

This happened in Edgedancer, the clarity of his mind returned briefly after Lift swore the 3rd Idea and he was confronted with his failure. Edgedancer ch 19:

Quote

“I will listen,” Lift shouted, “to those who have been ignored!”
[...]
In that moment it seemed, strangely, that something within him emerged. It was stupid of her to think that with everything happening—the rain, the winds, the red lightning—she could see a difference in his eyes. But she swore that she could.
He seemed to focus, like a person waking up from a daze. His sword dropped from his fingers and puffed away into mist.
Then he slumped to his knees. “Storms. Jezrien … Ishar … It is true. I’ve failed.” He bowed his head.
And he started weeping.

[TruthMisting]

Never mind then, I haven't read edgedancer before, going to on my first reread, and completely forgot about how he was in flashbacks, I'll take the L on this one lol. Still think Taln is going to bond a Peakspren tho

[The Stick]

I wouldn't call Male at all sane, but he is probably the most sane of the heralds we have seen. In some ways, he reminds me a lot of Victor Hugo's Javert in Les Miserables. He is utterly dedicated to the law because he believes it the only moral qualifier. I think that Nale's big problem is that he had no real respect of the law, but he feels obliged to follow this. This is seen with him trying to find a way to have Venli kill Gavilar legally.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Nale isn't sane, Nale is functional. Nale/Ishar both are lucid but completely out of their mind, which makes them entirely more dangerous because they can seek power to further their own insane efforts. Kalak is only partially capable. Jezrien and Taln both were/are mostly non-functional.

I'd probably say the "sanest" Herald is Shalash, since she seems mostly normal when she isn't faced with her own likeness. But even that's pushing it. A lot.

 

If anything, the Heralds are more like spren themselves - maybe the Nahel bond could heal them, but with the Heralds giving powers in exchange for mental stability in place of the opposite.

[Dofurion]

Over time I began to consider the possibility that the Nahel could be viable to heal the Heralds, but since they are interconnected on a spiritual level I think it would be necessary for all 9 (no longer 10 due to Jezrien's death) to occur at the same time for any effect to occur.