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Anyone find Kell's self-sacrifice a little weird?


iLewoArtist29

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I'm going to keep this brief. I found Kelsier's self-sacrifice a little odd because he was literally one of (probably) two Mistborns around. I read Secret History and that does explain a little, but like-

Oh, also, how (in the Wax and Wayne series) did he talk to Marasi? They were still in Scadrial. So that doesn't make much sense to me. 

Thoughts?

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9 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

I'm going to keep this brief. I found Kelsier's self-sacrifice a little odd because he was literally one of (probably) two Mistborns around. I read Secret History and that does explain a little, but like-

Not too much, really. He wanted to beat the Lord Ruler, no matter the personal cost, and Sazed's teaching of religion's power on people's mentality gave him what he viewed as a last ditch effort.

That's how I recall it, in any case.

9 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

Oh, also, how (in the Wax and Wayne series) did he talk to Marasi? They were still in Scadrial. So that doesn't make much sense to me. 

Elantris spoilers:

Spoiler

They used two Seons to communicate.

Also, welcome to the Shard friend!

Edited by Trusk'our
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Hey, thanks, that makes a lot more sense. Also, @Hyper129 is one of my friends, so if you know him, tell him to talk to me real quick because I don't think he's realize I'm on here.

16 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

I'm going to keep this brief. I found Kelsier's self-sacrifice a little odd because he was literally one of (probably) two Mistborns around. I read Secret History and that does explain a little, but like-

Oh, also, how (in the Wax and Wayne series) did he talk to Marasi? They were still in Scadrial. So that doesn't make much sense to me. 

Thoughts?

"My ears are ringing, and I've been reminded - quite profoundly - that I'm at least two decades past prime exploding age." - Waxillium

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53 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

I'm going to keep this brief. I found Kelsier's self-sacrifice a little odd because he was literally one of (probably) two Mistborns around. I read Secret History and that does explain a little, but like-

The most important thing Kelsier cared about was killing the Lord Ruler. By becoming a martyr, he solidified his new religion, which he believed would be able to unite all Skaa together to overthrow the Lord Ruler by sheer numbers. Mistborn are impressive killers, but even they can't take on an army by themselves. He falsely believed that the Lord Ruler is just a strong Allomancer and with enough people they can tie him up and kill him - he didn't know Rashek dealt with worse rebellions in the past all by himself. Without Vin drawing power from the Mists, his whole plan would only cause a decimation of the Skaa population. So yes, his plan almost failed, but it was a good plan judging by the knowledge Kelsier possessed. He already believed he was living on borrowed time and he should have died in the Pits with Mare, so it didn't matter to him if he were to die, as long as it brought the Lord Ruler one step closer to death. And his death was needed for his religion to start, without his death, OreSeur would not be able to impersonate him as miraculously survived his own death and making people actually believe that Kelsier had divine powers, with which he was going to protect all Skaa.

1 hour ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

Oh, also, how (in the Wax and Wayne series) did he talk to Marasi? They were still in Scadrial. So that doesn't make much sense to me. 

Thoughts?

It was a Seon, a magical thing from another world that can communicate with other Soens instantly. Kel was on Scadrial too, but he had his own Sean with him. Seons are explained in detail in the Elantris book. 

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49 minutes ago, reisleK said:

Oh he's still kicking... have you read Stormlight?

I will be reading Stormlight in approximately the time it takes for my dad to come back from the library with the first and only book they have. I already got Hyper to lend me the others, so that's great.

Also, I noticed Hoid turns up in Tress of the Emerald Sea, Mistborn, and (I'm guessing) Stormlight. I briefly saw a page about that somewhere, but I didn't get time to read it. Can someone explain...? 

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9 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

I will be reading Stormlight in approximately the time it takes for my dad to come back from the library with the first and only book they have. I already got Hyper to lend me the others, so that's great.

Also, I noticed Hoid turns up in Tress of the Emerald Sea, Mistborn, and (I'm guessing) Stormlight. I briefly saw a page about that somewhere, but I didn't get time to read it. Can someone explain...? 

Hoid...turns up in every cosmere novel. He's a master of disguise and intrigue and gets around like crazy. The members of the 17th shard seem to believe that he has had his spiritual Fortune hacked to the point that he is essentially a fully loaded deus ex machina just walking around waiting to happen. Imagine being drunk on Felix Felicis potions 24/7 and also so Invested that one can no longer be harmed in the traditional sense of the word...that's Hoid.

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22 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

I will be reading Stormlight in approximately the time it takes for my dad to come back from the library with the first and only book they have. I already got Hyper to lend me the others, so that's great.

Also, I noticed Hoid turns up in Tress of the Emerald Sea, Mistborn, and (I'm guessing) Stormlight. I briefly saw a page about that somewhere, but I didn't get time to read it. Can someone explain...? 

Adding on to what @hwiles said. In other words, he is a worldhopper (someone who travels throughout cosmere). Hoid is also old. Really old. Regardless, if it's a cosmere novel, you should expect Hoid somewhere. 

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2 minutes ago, iLewoArtist29 said:

WHOA. That is insanely cool. Or weird. I can't decide which.

Oh and if you see a random beggar, it's probably Hoid. Random coachman? Hoid. Especially if there's a storyteller, it's going to be Hoid. (He's usually mentioned by name, either Hoid or his other alliases. Don't worry about not being able to spot him, you'll know when you see him, or its mentioned.)

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15 minutes ago, reisleK said:

Oh and if you see a random beggar, it's probably Hoid. Random coachman? Hoid. Especially if there's a storyteller, it's going to be Hoid. (He's usually mentioned by name, either Hoid or his other alliases. Don't worry about not being able to spot him, you'll know when you see him, or its mentioned.)

Spoiler

The scene where he's a coachman and he and Kaladin see each other is legitimately one of my favorite scenes in the entire Stormlight series

 

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3 hours ago, reisleK said:

Oh and if you see a random beggar, it's probably Hoid. Random coachman? Hoid. Especially if there's a storyteller, it's going to be Hoid. (He's usually mentioned by name, either Hoid or his other alliases. Don't worry about not being able to spot him, you'll know when you see him, or its mentioned.)

Oh, yeah, I remember that. Thanks, guys!

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I'm late to the thread, but I also think Kelsier's sacrifice in Final Empire has a lot of thematic elements driving it. Even with his adaptability, determination, daring, and power, Kelsier's greatest strength was really his charisma. He could inspire others to do things for grand reasons, but ultimately that was a result of personal connections he managed and it led to others sacrificing themselves for his causes. Being killed, defiantly, by the Lord Ruler inverted that: a final, powerful application of his charisma by way of his own sacrifice which then inspired others he never met to actively participate in their own cause.

I don't think that replaces anything other posters have said or anything that is in the text (plots and narratives should happen on the page), but is an angle on the event that I've been thinking about.

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2 hours ago, Returned said:

I'm late to the thread, but I also think Kelsier's sacrifice in Final Empire has a lot of thematic elements driving it. Even with his adaptability, determination, daring, and power, Kelsier's greatest strength was really his charisma. He could inspire others to do things for grand reasons, but ultimately that was a result of personal connections he managed and it led to others sacrificing themselves for his causes. Being killed, defiantly, by the Lord Ruler inverted that: a final, powerful application of his charisma by way of his own sacrifice which then inspired others he never met to actively participate in their own cause.

I don't think that replaces anything other posters have said or anything that is in the text (plots and narratives should happen on the page), but is an angle on the event that I've been thinking about.

Hm. That is a fascinating way of looking at it. 

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