Death Rattle Connections (with a capital C)

[boolamoo]

So I just recently finished a reread (listen) of WoK. And from the start I've been fascinated with the death rattles. This time through I was listening and I heard this death rattle 

Quote

A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.

—Collected on Palahevan 1173, 73 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.

It seems to reference Shalash who has been defacing art of herself. Shalash, whose divine attribute is creative. What I found interesting about this death rattle is that the subject was "known for his elegant songs". Seems a little bit of a nice  Coincidence that an artist had a death rattle vision about the divinely creative herald. So I started looking at more death rattles... again.

First one to catch my attention:

Quote

In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving.

—Collected on Kakanev 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a city guardsman.[

Clearly about Kaladin and the subject was a guardsmen. 

I believe that those who have death rattle visions are in some way Connected to the subjects of the visions. 

Now, there is a big problem with this theory but the same problem is what prevents it from being debunked. You can't prove a negative. You can't take the death rattle about Kal protecting Elhokar and say a mother of four isn't Connected to Kal in some way. We don't know enough about her. Maybe a mother's protectiveness is enough. There are plenty of loose connections I can make but none quite so strong as the two above. What do you think? Am I on to something? Are there any death rattles that you think might have a larger Connection?

 

As an aside, this theory strengthens my belief that Kaladin is the Black Piper Cenn talks about in his rattle.

 

[reisleK she/her]

You might be on to something, I don't know enough about death rattles to talk confidentially besides knowing one of the unmade is behind them (Molelach)

Here's a list of some death rattles with interpretations below them to make it easier, I don't know if you've gone through it yet.

Looking through it, what is given about the people may be deliberate, such as some are saying occupations, most have ages, or other things listed. It's quite interesting.

Back to the Black piper.

 

Quote

He watches! The black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear! 

—Observed circa Tanat 1172. Subject was Cenn, a member of Kaladin's squad in Brightlord Meridas Amaram's army.

Cenn's death rattle for reference. How did this death rattle become recorded? Was it from Kaladin? Must be, he was the only one to survive the incident.

Then there's this (bolded what stood out to me)

Quote

Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! 

—Collected on Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed female street juggler. Note similarity to sample 1172-89.

Is Cenn's Death Rattle sample 1172-89? There is no 1172 death rattle 89 seconds before death, so what is the 89 for?

Anyway, back to Cenn.
"Playing a tune no man can hear" may refer to rhythms listeners hear, considering no man can hear them. I don't know what did is considered hearing the Rhythms of Roshar, but regardless she isn't a man. That segment from what I grasp would not point to Kaladin.
"He holds us in his palm" may refer to a deity of some sort, I would assume Odium. Honor is long dead and I don't think this is referencing the stormfather.
"He watches!" may once again, refer back to Odium. Or the stormfather. 

Last thing, "Dai-gonarthis!" from the second sample does not sound Alethi to me. 

[KelsierFortnite he/him]

29 minutes ago, reisleK said:

Last thing, "Dai-gonarthis!" from the second sample does not sound Alethi to me. 

I believe Dai-gonarthis is one of the Unmade we have not seen yet. Perhaps his power is somehow related to Odium's drawing of sorrow?

[boolamoo]

My theory about it pointing to Kaladin as the Black Piper is based on some stormlight 5 released chapters. Spoilers:

Spoiler

I started thinking of Kaladin as the Black Piper here in this conversation between Wit and Kaladin.

"You're going to have to learn to play music, Kaladin. Without using your breath or your lips."

"Wit. I know we've been joking about being confusing. Can you try for once to be clear?"

"I am trying. You'll win when you don't play music with your own breath, and when you fight without your own muscles. Play the flute, but don't. And fight, but don't."

Not to mention the flute Wit gave Kaladin was a dark wood that looked black and he was literally holding Cenn in the palm of his hands. I don't know if his position as Black Piper is him ascending to Honor and really watching over them or just a saying like him being a watcher at the rim, but I think the Black Piper is Kaladin.

Plus, like half of our rattles reference Kaladin. Odds are this one is too.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Can I just say that I am SO worried about how SA 5 is going to end based on what we see in all those death rattles??

Also based on what we know now of some future stuff... it just feels like its going to be so bleak

[ArchangelCaesar]

To me, The Black Piper sounds like Hoid, and the tune is either related to the Heightening he has, or its related to the fact he is manipulating everyone to his own ends. Or it could refer to the fact that he has many magic powers, all of which have their separate tunes which not even the Listeners can hear because they aren't of Roshar.

[alder24]

21 hours ago, ArchangelCaesar said:

To me, The Black Piper sounds like Hoid, and the tune is either related to the Heightening he has, or its related to the fact he is manipulating everyone to his own ends. Or it could refer to the fact that he has many magic powers, all of which have their separate tunes which not even the Listeners can hear because they aren't of Roshar.

It's not Hoid:

Spoiler

Questioner

So, when Cenn dies, and he says "The Black Piper in the night, he holds us in the palm, playing a tune no man can hear." Is that a reference to Hoid?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Good question!

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

[reisleK she/her]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:54 PM, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Can I just say that I am SO worried about how SA 5 is going to end based on what we see in all those death rattles??

Also based on what we know now of some future stuff... it just feels like its going to be so bleak

I don't think it's gonna be inherently bleak, I just worry/know characters I care about are going to die. 

[Jasaprugus he/him]

if Kaladin dies I don't know what I will do. though I am curios what he's going to do with Adolin and Shallan cause there is 0 chance they get back in time so will they even figure out what's happening through an honor spren telling them or will they do something else

[boolamoo]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:33 PM, Jasaprugus said:

if Kaladin dies I don't know what I will do. though I am curios what he's going to do with Adolin and Shallan cause there is 0 chance they get back in time so will they even figure out what's happening through an honor spren telling them or will they do something else

They have access to a Seon. I think they'll be able communicate just fine.

[Jasaprugus he/him]

oh yeah I forgot about that 

[Erklitt]

On 7/8/2024 at 4:04 AM, reisleK said:

Is Cenn's Death Rattle sample 1172-89? There is no 1172 death rattle 89 seconds before death, so what is the 89 for?

I guess they just count them beginning with 1 each new year. It would have been the 89th in 1172.

It's definitely not Cenn's because the Silent Gatherers don't know about that one. 

I don't think we readers have seen the sample referenced because none given for 1172 fits. I think 'Note similarity to sample 1172-89.' is just to show that someone tries to interpret the rattles and is going about it in a methodical way. Remember that at that point in the book a first time reader knows nothing about the context yet. Just like 

Quote

You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die!
... Sample is considered questionable.

foreshadows that whoever is recording those is actually killing the subjects and this subject became aware of it, so what he says is not a death rattle at all. 

 

I think the Black Piper is more likely to be an Unmade. It sounds like a typical title like several of them have: Midnight Mother, Black Fisher, Taker of Secrets. (All right, some Fused have those too, but that's very unlikely here.) Maybe it's the one who influenced the Davar family:

Quote

Questioner

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes.

Questioner

Was it the corrupting--

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)